Guest MoJo Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 A few months back our vocalist discovered that one of the guys who regularly came to see our party band had got himself a pub and what's more he was putting on live music We managed to persuade him to that he really ought to have our rock band play there and just after Christmas we played there for the first time. We had a great night and a lot of folks came down to see the band. At the end of the night we approached him about payment. His reply was, " I thought we'd see how this one went and if it was a success, we'd pay you for the next one." Hmmmm They booked us for a second visit immediately and were told we could play upstairs in the larger room next time if we liked and we had a choice of taking the door or a flat rate. Not being certain how many folks would turn up, we opted for the latter and decided to stay in the smaller room downstairs. Last Saturday, we played there again. Even more folks turned up this time, some travelling 20 miles to get to the gig. The bar staff said it was the busiest Saturday they'd had in a long time. At the end of the night, I went in search of the Manager to be told that he wasn't feeling too well and had gone upstairs. Yesterday, I telephoned the venue and spoke to the Manager about the money. "Oh," was his reply," I thought it was another freebie...to promote the band." I reminded him about the choice we'd been given, flat rate or the door and he had no recollection of the conversation Ever had that feeling you've been taken for a mug? Bad feelings toward the manager of the venue are running high at the moment. He wants us back (I bet he does with what must've gone across that bar on Saturday) and we can take the door to ensure we get something for our troubles but I think we'll have to wait until the anger subsides. Anyone else have a similar tale to tell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Ask for one and half times your normal pub fee, 5 gigs booked over the next year ... and get it in writing ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyJay Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) [quote name='OldGit' post='417275' date='Feb 23 2009, 11:39 AM']Ask for one and half times your normal pub fee[/quote] You're generous. It would be double if that guy wanted us back, and it'd be in advance. Edited to add a story: When my band first started booking gigs, our guitarist would do the ringing around and he had a tendency to offer our services for nothing and say that they only had to pay us if they thought we were good, leaving us wide open to getting shafted. On one memorable occasion the landlord offered us £200 for two sets and our guitarist said, "no no, £100 is fine if you'd prefer". Fortunately, no-one tried to take advantage, but the gig booking committee consists of me now. Edited February 23, 2009 by HeavyJay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_bass Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Knob If you do go back perhaps after agreeing the pay ask for it just before you're about to go on? Any excuses about a delay then threaten to walk out with a pub packed full of people waiting to see you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='joe_bass' post='417296' date='Feb 23 2009, 12:02 PM']If you do go back perhaps after agreeing the pay ask for it just before you're about to go on? Any excuses about a delay then threaten to walk out with a pub packed full of people waiting to see you?[/quote] No way! He's got a full pub, spending money at the bar, so he's happy. As far as the crowd is concerned, it's the band that have let them down. Insist on payment in full when you arrive to set up ... BEFORE you set up. If he doesn't come across with money and you don't set up, then punters coming through the door will see there's no band immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but you really need to agree your fee in full and up front. We (the British) seem to dislike talking about money, we really shouldn't. Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 If it was me I wouldn't even consider going back there a third time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='spike' post='417346' date='Feb 23 2009, 01:04 PM']If it was me I wouldn't even consider going back there a third time.[/quote] I reckon it's +1 for that unless you [i]really[/i] need the gig. He's rodgered you twice, and is therefore perfectly capable of doing it a third time. Bollox to him. And spread the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkmaster Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Persuade the nearest pub to him (hopefully near enough for him to see) to put you on. Agree your fee in advance - be cheap if you want to be because the night will be oh so satisfying! And make sure your rent a crowd is absolutely primed to turn up. Sometime during the night go into the non-payer guys pub and tell him that you've had to pop in for a swift one cause your playing just next door and it's so rammed that you can't afford the waiting time to get to the bar! He'll be so pleased he treated you so shabbily! Edited February 23, 2009 by Funkmaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsmith Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I'd be looking to get paid whatever flat rate you agreed for the second gig before you even consider returning for a third. If his take really did increase by a lot, he'll be keen to have you back and should stump up anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Mate - if you dig the earth around Stonehenge there's a couple of minstrels moaning for all eternity about the bloody druid that didn't pay them what they agreed for the gig. Easy to say be principled and don't go near the place again - less easy if you're struggling for gigs. There are so many arseholes who'll take advantage. At 47 with a gig list as big as I want I know what I'd do , with knobs on. Have you considered finding a rival pub close by and approaching them - your success is a selling point should you do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) [quote]Persuade the nearest pub to him (hopefully near enough for him to see) to put you on. Agree your fee in advance - be cheap if you want to be because the night will be oh so satisfying! And make sure your rent a crowd is absolutely primed to turn up. Sometime during the night go into the non-payer guys pub and tell him that you've had to pop in for a swift one cause your playing just next door and it's so rammed that you can't afford the waiting time to get to the bar! He'll be so pleased he treated you so shabbily![/quote] Ooooooo....that's wicked :brow: but I like it Edited February 23, 2009 by bassman2790 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosebass Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Not band specific but business in general.... I got stung to the tune of 2 weeks work and £2500 cost in setting up a satellite showroom for my business in another persons premises. Despite handshakes and being very buddy buddy they did not staff the showroom as agreed , or promote it and it was left collecting dust as they had "changed business direction" and didn't even have the decency to tell us for months... Lesson: Get it in writing , even if its only £50.00 and get a signature. If they renege on the deal never deal with them again, simple rules so you never get stung twice. Don't badmouth them though, it reflects on you and may make others less likely to do business with you. Edited February 23, 2009 by Prosebass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basswesty Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Sorry to hear that Mark, Its the busiest I've seen that pub in a long time too. What a T***ER. I wouldn't be going back myself but I would arrange a third, turn up, demand payment (before setting up), get payment and get back in the car stating you are owed it... Edited February 23, 2009 by basswesty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 +1 to not playing again UNLESS there aren't many venues for you to pick and choose then agree flat fee up front. ...and yes, I'm sure most bands have been shafted to a greater or lesser degree. We played a venue for very cheap on the guarantee that we'd get proper paying bookings if we packed the place [and we did], but the good paying gigs never turned up - I'm happy to name and shame the 'Gallopers' in Bradford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='HeavyJay' post='417290' date='Feb 23 2009, 11:55 AM']On one memorable occasion the landlord offered us £200 for two sets and our guitarist said, "no no, £100 is fine if you'd prefer".[/quote] What the f***? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosebass Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='basswesty' post='417369' date='Feb 23 2009, 01:21 PM']Sorry to hear that Mark, Its the busiest I've seen that pub in a long time too. What a T***ER. I wouldn't be going back myself but I would arrange a third, turn up, demand payment (before setting up), get payment and get back in the car stating you are owed it... [/quote] And they will tell the local premises what you did and you are stuffed all round. Just put it down to experience and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 The sad thing is, we quite like the venue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Only do the next one if he pays you triple, seeing as he hasn't paid you guys for the last 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Total pisser! Any of your chaps in MU? [url="http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/site/cms/contentChapterView.asp?chapter=1"]http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/site/cms/...w.asp?chapter=1[/url] Sometimes the threat of involving a 'bigger brother' can help, but for future use MU let you download various standard contracts. As a couple of folks here have said - get it in writing! We've probably all been stuffed like this at some point. One renowned tight-fisted landlord in Bradford was known to relent after our 17 stone, son-of-a-pro-wrestler drummer (going back many years now ) mentioned his windows. This is, obviously, not a generally recommended course of action! If you quite like the place and the manager, sounds like a job for a serious talk with him to let him know just how pissed off you are. He'll probably see the finincial incentive of promoting a longer term relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='Adrenochrome' post='417373' date='Feb 23 2009, 01:22 PM']...and yes, I'm sure most bands have been shafted to a greater or lesser degree. We played a venue for very cheap on the guarantee that we'd get proper paying bookings if we packed the place [and we did], but the good paying gigs never turned up - I'm happy to name and shame the 'Gallopers' in Bradford.[/quote] Yes, we did a cheap New Years Eve at the Greenlands in Longbridge, Birmingham with an agreement to another three gigs through the year, which didn't materialise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basswesty Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='Prosebass' post='417377' date='Feb 23 2009, 01:24 PM']And they will tell the local premises what you did and you are stuffed all round. Just put it down to experience and move on.[/quote] Thats fine as there is nowhere else to play anyway. Its poor on the gig front round our way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='bassman2790' post='417380' date='Feb 23 2009, 01:25 PM']The sad thing is, we quite like the venue [/quote] So go back and play it again but make sure you get paid.. It's worth one more go. If you'd been paid that would have been a top shot gig so it can happen again, you just need to make sure you take out the annoying bit. I've had a couple of experiences related to this kind of behavior, someone booked my band at "charity" rates for a fundraising gig and then it turned out to be a birthday party ... That just brought in the "registered charity" phrase to our agreement wording and once a support band were supposed to sell tickets and get paid a couple of quid per ticket sold. Sadly the member of their band I was dealing with forgot to tell them that, and went home before we finished our set leaving 4 hard nut band members to menace me for the money they obviously thought they were getting. I paid them some but they never got a support slot or recommendation from us again. They probably went off telling everyone that we promised them £100 and then they had to threaten us to get their pay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='Funkmaster' post='417355' date='Feb 23 2009, 01:13 PM']Persuade the nearest pub to him (hopefully near enough for him to see) to put you on.[/quote] Interesting that the two Wakey lads come up with the same thing !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Couldn't you just beat the f*** out of him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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