Funkmaster Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='Dr.Dave' post='417487' date='Feb 23 2009, 02:58 PM']Interesting that the two Wakey lads come up with the same thing !!![/quote] Lol - I thought exactly the same thing when I saw your reply, Dave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote]we had a choice of taking the door or a flat rate.[/quote] That's not how it should work really. You've got to be mercenary about how you sell yourself to pubs. You tell a pub how much money you usually go out for, and if they argue with your price (as long as it's a reasonable one), then you politely thank them anyway and look for a different gig somewhere else. It's not worth your time trying to get blood out of a stone. There was a guy a while ago who booked us for his pub. At the start of the night, in some half-baked attempt to prove his authority, told us that if we didn't bring a crowd then he wouldn't be paying us. We said fine, not a problem... promptly started to pack the gear up and got the van started, and told him that if there was the slightest chance he wouldn't pay us then like hell we're playing the gig for him. He immediately changed his tune after we asked for the money up front there and then if he wanted us to stay. It may seem like you're getting high and mighty approaching money like this, but at the end of the day you're only trying to make a living. As long as you're putting on a high quality show for people to watch and act professionally and friendly to the people paying you, then you should not for one second be in any doubt that you've earned your cash. Anywhere that will treat you like you described isn't worth your business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosebass Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='417494' date='Feb 23 2009, 03:07 PM']Couldn't you just beat the f*** out of him?[/quote] The voice or reason ! Justice BBC stylee.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='417494' date='Feb 23 2009, 03:07 PM']Couldn't you just beat the f*** out of him?[/quote] Ah.. Tonbridge just outside Castleford, then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='417494' date='Feb 23 2009, 03:07 PM']Couldn't you just beat the f*** out of him?[/quote] this carefully reasoned and well balanced response gets my vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timloudon Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 +1 to getting it in writing! E-mails will even do. Especially after a phone call or conversation- making a note of what was discussed and agreed, and sending an e-mail with those details relaid back. And don't forget to include the killer line 'Please inform me if any of the details are incorrect.' No reply = conformation. You can always take him to the small claims court if he won't pay you- although I've never had to do anything of the sort. Has anyone esle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Theres one venue...south of the M62,that both the good Dr and Adrenochrome...will know of,that the landlord likes stiffing people,and taking the piss...gets drunk,and f***s off upstairs,with the mumble to the barstaff "They are on £180..." WHEN they are on £250.... £300 for a new years gig?...... Theres another on the A64 that "Just dosent understand why bands want more than £130" Putting it straight fella...Pass the word....a c**ts a c***...and it needs to be told. There IS more than one venue in a town....you got stung,bad luck,get it in writing next time,and NEVER EVER EVER PLAY FOR FREE UNLESS its for a dying child.* *Make sure you have free drinks and BBQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxblues Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 It's simple, if he wants you back, he pays for the last gig first, and pays in full before you set up for the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote]we got money, and they lost TV, furniture etc and no one messed with us again. Some clubs don’t book us as we warned them after trying to sort things amicably. We still work and we do get paid! Business is business! Be nice, be reasonable but if the going gets tough, mean what you say and go all the way[/quote] I think you might be my personal hero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timloudon Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='funnyfreddie' post='417687' date='Feb 23 2009, 06:49 PM']Here’s the rub. You may piss someone off this way and they will never book you again.[/quote] Well... do you really want to be professionally or personally involved with people like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='timloudon' post='417750' date='Feb 23 2009, 07:36 PM']Well... do you really want to be professionally or personally involved with people like that?[/quote] Exactly, we've made a few people angry in the past but our 'demands' (if you can call them that) are incredibly reasonable. We're not there to cause problems for potential employers, we're there to make it easy for them, but it 100% works both ways. If they want to take us for a ride or try or shaft us, then they're not worth dealing with, and we're unlikely to go back to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) [quote name='bassman2790' post='417265' date='Feb 23 2009, 11:29 AM']At the end of the night we approached him about payment. His reply was, " I thought we'd see how this one went and if it was a success, we'd pay you for the next one." Hmmmm [/quote] That's the point at which I (and any of the bands I play with) would not have been going back. Except to collect the money owed as agreed in advance - you did agree payment in advance didn't you? Edited February 23, 2009 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='liamcapleton' post='417518' date='Feb 23 2009, 03:25 PM']That's not how it should work really. You've got to be mercenary about how you sell yourself to pubs. You tell a pub how much money you usually go out for, and if they argue with your price (as long as it's a reasonable one), then you politely thank them anyway and look for a different gig somewhere else. It's not worth your time trying to get blood out of a stone. There was a guy a while ago who booked us for his pub. At the start of the night, in some half-baked attempt to prove his authority, told us that if we didn't bring a crowd then he wouldn't be paying us. We said fine, not a problem... promptly started to pack the gear up and got the van started, and told him that if there was the slightest chance he wouldn't pay us then like hell we're playing the gig for him. He immediately changed his tune after we asked for the money up front there and then if he wanted us to stay. It may seem like you're getting high and mighty approaching money like this, but at the end of the day you're only trying to make a living. As long as you're putting on a high quality show for people to watch and act professionally and friendly to the people paying you, then you should not for one second be in any doubt that you've earned your cash. Anywhere that will treat you like you described isn't worth your business.[/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='funnyfreddie' post='417687' date='Feb 23 2009, 06:49 PM']We’ve done what Liam Capleton has done. We were a 4 piece and playing a pub we played before. Setting up the landlady got choppy. Her hubby was an ex boxer who liked to try and bully people. He came unstuck when we just re packed the gear, loaded the lorry and drove off leaving him with an empty pub as we had a good following at the time. That was a long time ago and lessons have been learnt. I take care of the bookings now and I have a set fee with cancellation fee inserted as well. I try to compromise if there is a problem over dates (e.g. we get double booked etc) and lose a nights work. Then we reschedule. It helps if things can be done amicable! However there are those who do try to take advantage! Keep calm! If someone has been drinking, come back the next day. If they don't pay, write a letter outlining the terms of contract, you expect to receive payment within 14 days from letter date. Send the main and a copy to yourself of this letter via recorded delivery to yourself and keep it unopened. This is important. If they don't pay, start small claims procedure. If it gets to court, you will be asked to provide evidence that you tried to get monies etc. the bloke who booked you will say he didn't get anything. You produce your copy unopened. a letter through the royal mail acts to my knowledge as a legal document if it remains unopened. We have had to do this 5 times to non payers and have never lost a case. Here’s the rub. You may piss someone off this way and they will never book you again. However, message gets out not to f*** you about and people do pay. Last bit. We did a favour at a reduced rate for someone who vaguely knew our k/board player. We did the gig, played over the normal times, charged less and they told us sod off when money time came. The short bit here is, Court, we won, they didn't pay, we sent in bailiffs (laughing at us they didn't believe we would), we did, we got money, and they lost TV, furniture etc and no one messed with us again. Some clubs don’t book us as we warned them after trying to sort things amicably. We still work and we do get paid! Business is business! Be nice, be reasonable but if the going gets tough, mean what you say and go all the way.[/quote] Excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='funnyfreddie' post='417806' date='Feb 23 2009, 08:23 PM']Tim, I feel you maybe missing my point. As I outlined. Be reasonable! Be amicable! Try to resolve things with due courtesy! However, there comes a point when none of the afore mentioned works. You have 2 choices. 1) Let them take the piss out of not only you, but someone else. Fact. I know this occurs as it did happen to someone else. Another band also got ripped off. 2) Try your best but in the end, you don't work for nothing. When I do charity work (£12,000 raised for local hospice with friends playing gigs, I do it BY CHOICE!) When I play as business, then I expect the same respect as I give in turning up on time, not getting pissed or making a show of one's self. Play to the best of my ability and provide a fair job for fair reward. In return, I go to work to earn money. When I play for free, it’s when I choose to do it! The good news is as again I pointed out, all this happened a long time ago and fortunately don't happen these days. You may ask the question though, I wonder why? The reason I added my view is I don't feel those lads should have been ripped off. I also feel that they deserve better. I am just saying there is another way of achieving justice within the law, without violence, without bad mouthing and done hopefully, very very rarely. I gave examples which happened about 8-10 years ago and from then not been necessary since. I make no apologies for sharing my experiences as I feel people can read this and make their own judgements. I know you don't agree with my points, so amicably and with courtesy I say no worries, let's agree to disagree . Good things to you my friend. No offence intended to you. ff[/quote] Actually, I think the point he is making is that you wouldn't want to be involved with a landlord who tries to shaft you. What would the manager of your local Tesco say if you walked in, picked up a pre-prepared sandwich and walked out of the shop saying you'd pay for it if it tasted nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='bassbloke' post='417824' date='Feb 23 2009, 09:39 PM']Actually, I think the point he is making is that you wouldn't want to be involved with a landlord who tries to shaft you. What would the manager of your local Tesco say if you walked in, picked up a pre-prepared sandwich and walked out of the shop saying you'd pay for it if it tasted nice.[/quote] I might try that....let you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I think there is a general belief amongst gig bookers of many types that we are "just musicians". They don't imagine that we might just do other things like running businesses, managing projects and negotiating deals with much bigger fish than them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Its helps if you have someone who does that for a living running the bookings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='ARGH' post='417927' date='Feb 23 2009, 10:08 PM']Its helps if you have someone who does that for a living running the bookings[/quote] You don't actually have to do it... you just have to talk like you do ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 [quote name='funnyfreddie' post='417687' date='Feb 23 2009, 06:49 PM']We have had to do this 5 times to non payers and have never lost a case.........message gets out not to f*** you about and people do pay.[/quote] If the message got out, would you have had to do it 5 times? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timloudon Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 [quote name='funnyfreddie' post='417838' date='Feb 23 2009, 08:53 PM']If I misunderstood Tim then my apologies.[/quote] No apology necessary. There's more than one way to deal with these things! Although, as you said, you should always do these things with goodwill, even if the person you're dealing with is a total idiot. Just politely decline if they can't meet the terms of your agreement. Short and sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Another option is to get w*nkered, steal a tank and drive it through their pub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 A couple of points spring to mind... * regardless, never ever play anywhere for free. The only free gigs I do are in the pub that lets us practice in their back room for FOC every week. That's just to say thanks. Otherwise, don't, ever, no. * I (sort of) have my own business and even we've been tripped up. Never be all british about money. Agree a fee up front, do it in writing, by email or have a witness. Don't get into this cut of the door or percentage of takings business. Work out what you need and charge a sensible fee. You are doing a job. * If you turned up on time and did a proper job then never appologise, never discount, even if two people turn up and they both hated you. * Polite, insistent, nasty, small claims court. Never take any sh*t at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 +1 for the MU. And the £2k of free equipment insurance, and public liability cover doesn't hurt either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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