Pairing cabs from different makers?

[ikay]

Specifically I'm considering pairing my Bergantino EX112ER (1x12 plus tweeter, front ported cab) with a Baer ML-112 (1x12 plus 6" mid driver, sealed cab). The idea being that the punch and upper mid detail of the Baer might complement the extended bottom and sweet top end of the Berg. I love the Berg on it's own but have also heard good things about the Baer and I'm wondering how well they'd work together. Or would their individually excellent sound qualities just cancel each other out and sound meeh? Is pairing up cabs from two different makers in any case something that's generally best avoided? Google didn't yield any useful insights so I'm hoping the combined experience of all you excellent and helpful BCers will! 😎 

Edited April 19, 2020 by ikay

[BigRedX]

Personally I wouldn't for two reasons:

1. If you use PA support for the bass guitar, your choice of cabs have very little impact on what the audience hears. If you are lucky enough to end up with a combination that gives you the sound you want, then you would have to mic up both cabs and get them balanced FoH to replicate what you are hearing on stage.

2. If you FoH sound is entirely dependant upon your rig what you find with using multiple different cabs is that the sound will be inconsistent across the venue, and maybe even across to stage area. So while you bass might sound awesome where you are standing on stage it's just as likely to sound horribly boomy or thin and weedy in other parts of venue as the waveforms produced by each cab interact in different ways in different parts of the room.

The best way to go is to find one amp and cab combination that gives you sound that you want and if you need to be louder get another cab the same. If your amp and cab combination aren't giving you the sound that you want then they are not the right ones for you.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Mixing cabs seldom works anywhere near as well as using identical cabs. That's not to say that any two cabs together won't usually work better than either alone, because they will. But what you're proposing is more like having summer tires on one side of your car and winter on the other, so you're ready for any condition. The reality is that it won't work well in either summer or winter. Find a cab that you like. If one isn't loud enough get another. If what you have doesn't work for you try something else.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[warwickhunt]

6 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Mixing cabs seldom works anywhere near as well as using identical cabs. 

Quick question Bill if I may.  I've always considered that when I used to used different cabs (4x10 and a 1x15 for instance) with a full range amp, that when I tweaked the amp EQ I would be trying to get a 'best fit' tone as each cab might be responding and sounding slightly differently according to EQ changes.  Would that be right?  I found that when I changed to pairs of identical cabs (presently x2 2x10 cabs stacked vertical) I could EQ and get better/quicker tweaks to the sound.  

[ikay]

Thanks for the replies and I'm glad I asked! That all makes perfect sense. I generally play small venues with backline only and am quite happy with my amp/cab combination (LMIII + Berg 112). Used to have two Berg 112s but rather foolishly sold one. That will teach me!

[chris_b]

Anyone can make a mistake! I'd put out feelers for another Berg 112. You know how good two of those cabs will sound.

[franzbassist]

If it's any help I tried my Baer with a Markbass TRV112 and it sounded terrific.

Edited April 19, 2020 by franzbassist

[Dan Dare]

In the best of all possible worlds, I guess one should use the same make/design of cab, but mixing and matching will probably work pretty well, provided they are not wildly different (say a 1x10 and a 1x18) unless you combine a high quality cab with a dog. For example and assuming we're talking about decent cabs, one designer's 1x12 is pretty much the same as another's, whatever the sales blurb claims. They're all a pretty similar size and have been designed to achieve the same end result. Most makers are using the same or similar drive units, after all and pretty much the same design software, too. If you can afford to buy more of what you have already, great, but if you can't and you find something decent for a good price, it's got to be worth trying. I like my PJB cabs (have four of their 4x5s in total). I wanted something to give a bit more weight to the sound when I only take out one or two, so bought a used Berg' 1x12 (with no tweeter). The combination works very well.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

4 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

Quick question Bill if I may.  I've always considered that when I used to used different cabs (4x10 and a 1x15 for instance) with a full range amp, that when I tweaked the amp EQ I would be trying to get a 'best fit' tone as each cab might be responding and sounding slightly differently according to EQ changes.  Would that be right?  I found that when I changed to pairs of identical cabs (presently x2 2x10 cabs stacked vertical) I could EQ and get better/quicker tweaks to the sound.  

Using different cabs works very well when each operates within its own frequency bandwidth. That's what PA systems do. Bass cabs don't do that. For every frequency where different cabs are augmenting each other there's another where they'll be fighting each other. With identical cabs they're always augmenting each other.

[warwickhunt]

23 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Using different cabs works very well when each operates within its own frequency bandwidth. That's what PA systems do. Bass cabs don't do that. For every frequency where different cabs are augmenting each other there's another where they'll be fighting each other. With identical cabs they're always augmenting each other.

Cheers.  I always felt it was wrong to be EQing for a room when each cab was slightly different.  I didn't know the science behind it but logically... it wasn't logical!  When I went one make, one speaker size (doubled up for my needs) it made more sense.  I read something of yours many years ago (pre BC) re. speaker arrays (G Dead) and from then I used speakers arrayed vertically and I've never looked back. 

 

[FinnDave]

57 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

  I read something of yours many years ago (pre BC) re. speaker arrays (G Dead) and from then I used speakers arrayed vertically and I've never looked back. 

Follow the Bear and you can't go wrong!

[ikay]

3 hours ago, chris_b said:

Anyone can make a mistake! I'd put out feelers for another Berg 112. You know how good two of those cabs will sound.

Indeed I do!

3 hours ago, franzbassist said:

If it's any help I tried my Baer with a Markbass TRV112 and it sounded terrific.

Thanks, that's interesting. I guess odd pairings do work sometimes. And yes, it was your ML-112 that prompted the question!

Edited April 19, 2020 by ikay

[franzbassist]

13 minutes ago, ikay said:

And yes, it was your ML-112 that prompted the question!

Well you are most welcome to try mine when we get out of lockdown, assuming it hasn’t sold by then.

Oh and the Baers are front-ported, not sealed.

[stewblack]

I'm glad I didn't know about not mixing cabs. Done it all my life. Well, all my bass life any way. 

The sound when I use a TE cab loaded with an Epifani 10" paired with a TCE 2X8 is orgasmic. 

Similarly 12" BF with a 15" BF.

15" Bugera in a TE box paired with a TE 2X10 also sounds amazing. 

Suck it and see is always my advice. What you hear, what you like is the only thing that matters. Remember unless there's a bassist in the audience no one but you really cares. 

 

[ikay]

10 hours ago, franzbassist said:

Well you are most welcome to try mine when we get out of lockdown, assuming it hasn’t sold by then.

Oh and the Baers are front-ported, not sealed.

Ah yes front ported, don't know why I thought sealed. And thanks, if we ever do! 

[BassmanPaul]

Nobody has said that the pairing of different cabinets cannot work. It can and does. The caveat though is that luck is involved. They might meld harmoniously or fight each other all night long. For example if the cabinets are wired with differing polarities one will be trying it's best to cancel the other out and vice versa. Identical cabinets always work well together.

Edited April 20, 2020 by BassmanPaul

[stewblack]

10 minutes ago, BassmanPaul said:

Nobody has said that the pairing of different cabinets cannot work

No fair enough but it was stated that they seldom work as well as two identical cabs. I refute this but only from my own personal experience. 

Of course my experience is limited and unscientific, but in fairness it covers many decades of both mixing and matching without ever experiencing a bad result from either. 

I was reacting to a statement at odds with my own experience that was all. 

[BassmanPaul]

You're very lucky then!

[Lozz196]

21 hours ago, stewblack said:

No fair enough but it was stated that they seldom work as well as two identical cabs. I refute this but only from my own personal experience. 

Of course my experience is limited and unscientific, but in fairness it covers many decades of both mixing and matching without ever experiencing a bad result from either. 

I was reacting to a statement at odds with my own experience that was all. 

Pretty much the same for me Stew, never had a bad sounding rig with either different configuration, different brands, or both. I don`t doubt that the rigs would have been better if each cab would have been the same brand and configuration but if the ears like, they like, and mine did. 

[Dan Dare]

On 20/04/2020 at 21:07, BassmanPaul said:

Nobody has said that the pairing of different cabinets cannot work. It can and does. The caveat though is that luck is involved. They might meld harmoniously or fight each other all night long. For example if the cabinets are wired with differing polarities one will be trying it's best to cancel the other out and vice versa. Identical cabinets always work well together.

Sorry, but this is nonsense. No manufacturer worth its salt would ever wire a single driver cab to be anything other than hot to +. In multiple driver cabs, drivers might be wired in series and/or parallel to give the desired load, but even that would not cause the issue to which you refer.

[BassmanPaul]

Back in the day JBL wired their woofers such that a positive battery terminal to the positive terminal on the driver would cause the cone to pull back into the magnet.  Usually the reverse is true. 

But what would you know? You were too busy saving the planet from the Mekon!

Keep safe and healthy!

Edited April 23, 2020 by BassmanPaul