George Garzone's Chromatic Triadic Approach

[Mikey D]

I have recently started looking at this concept, anyone else familiar with it?

A quick explaination of it from the Casa Valdez site:
Without going into full detail, the idea of the triadic chromatic concept is to take either major, minor, diminished or augmented triads and move them around chromatically and in random inversions. If you don’t repeat the same inversion twice in a row and move chromatically on each successive triad you will be borrowing from the twelve-tone row. Triadic lines created in this way have a strong forward motion and resolve themselves often. George argues that lines created using this concept are even more likely to resolve than lines created using chord-scales. He notes that scales cover and obscure the underlying chords, but that triads played in this particular way allow you to explore all of the different available tonalities.

The other piece the Garzone’s formula is his Random Chromatic Approach, which consists of two basic principles:

The constructed melodic lines MUST stay within an interval of a Major 3rd.
The same intervals CANNOT be repeated consecutively in the same direction within the chosen Major 3rd.

[url="http://davidvaldez.blogspot.com/2008/12/etude-combining-all-elements-of.html"]Example[/url]

[url="http://davidvaldez.blogspot.com/2008/12/matt-ottos-triadic-chromatic-blues-6.html"]As a blues example and with analysis[/url]

I have heard a lot of sax players (sorry I know this is a bass forum) using a triadic approach in their playing like Ben Van Gelder, but this seems to be taking it to the next level. I'm not sure if Ben or others have actualyl studied with garzone.

I would be interested to hear what some of the improvisors on here think of this...

[urb]

Hi Mikey

This sounds really interesting - are there any audio examples of this you can post? I'm certainly looking for new things to add into my playing at the moment - I'll have a look at that chart you posted in the meantime.

Cheers

Mike

[Bilbo]

Can't really comment without trying the ideas out but would ask about the issue of intent. If you are moving stuff around randomly and it resolves by accident, where is the artist in this? I am hoping this is a failure in my interpretation of the model as you have described it (I always find the written explanations easier to understand after I hear the thing work) but it sounds like a scatter gun approach (i.e. all notes can, in principle, work against all chords so why not play them).

I hope I am wrong.

[mcgraham]

Deleted my previous comment, the analysis sets forth the concept more clearly. I think Bilbo has a valid point, but at least the concept is clear to me now.

I can see at least three uses that this 'concept' has, although I see it more as a series of rules than anything else:
1) Purely technical/theoretical - being able to play all the inversions of a given chord across the whole chromatic scale, shifting between them chromatically at speed is difficult both technically and would demand you understand your theory. This is good if only for a practice regime.
2) Improvisational/creativity exercise/playground - He has effectively allowed you to do anything you want within the confines of the rules, i.e. any key, but only triads and their inversions, never the same twice, and no repeated inversions. I often find that my creativity blossoms most when I am working from inside a difficult frame work, I then have to learn how to use the rules to my advantage, to create feel where there naturally is none. So I like that approach, maybe not so much for a performance, but definitely for practice. I often set myself challenges like this.
3) Enhance your ear and understanding - this would sound odd, but by doing the above two steps you would develop your ear, and your understanding to make such alien and bizarre concepts work for you.

Good blog/website! I'm always looking for new and interesting ideas like that. Please post more stuff like that if you have it.

Mark

Edited February 27, 2009 by mcgraham

[Mikey D]

I've been doing about 30mins of this a day and already have come up with some lines I would never have dreamed off and I really like the sound of-like the players I have heard and never understood how they got there. I'm currently using it as a structured way of playing 'outside' over dominants until I fully grasp the concept as explained on the dvd (which I am yet to see)

Mike - there are no audio examples I can find apart from his playing when searching on youtube. I am not confident enough to put some up yet!
Bilbo - I can relate to your concerns, but as I see it, it is a very structured way of attempting to play outside, utilising some very simple rules. Although, currently, there is a certain amount of randomness to it, but I was wondering if the dvd explains this further!?
Mark - I agree with your three statements completely. I currently am only practicing the major triads and minor triads separately, before adding the other triad shapes. I merely added this to my practice as I wanted something new that would challenge me mentally/technically, but also open up some of the sounds I was playing - this 'concept' sort of fits the bill and as i said, some sax players i have heard, whose playing I respect, definitely has some of this in there, so wanted to check it out myself.

Supposedly he recommends ways where this concept can be put over standards and other moving harmony, so I'm hoping I come across someone who has seen the dvd to explain that to me, as i can't justify the cost of it at the moment.