bremen Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 [quote name='Hamster' post='421281' date='Feb 27 2009, 07:46 PM']Very tough news Steve. I think the only place more screwed than here is Zimbabwe.[/quote] I can see you've travelled a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 [quote name='Vroomfondel' post='426672' date='Mar 5 2009, 08:53 PM']Why does it look like some people are so negatve towards CrazyKiwi? Isn't he the site owner or something? If not that and he's just lost is job and needs to sell his bass to pay the the rent then its even worse to slag him off isnt it?[/quote] It's bullying. BBC and others in the past know that if I have to defend myself against open and highly personal attacks, that's going to undermine my credibility in dealing with other members as well. The reason is that because in the eyes of critics and those who disagree with how the forum is being run, it will always be difficult to to draw the line between personal interest and the interests of the forum. Additionally if we let insulting behaviour slide as being 'ironic' then it sets a precedent for other behaviour from more impressionable individuals who interpret such ironic behaviour literally and imitate it. This makes managing standards of behaviour on forum even more difficult. Some of the members may have thicker skins than others. There's a diverse world out there, but doesn't mean that the thicker skinned members opinions should run rough shod over those who are more sensitive. Otherwise we'd end up with a forum full of insensitive assholes, wouldn't we? Given the personal attacks on me, some might say I have a vested personal interest in the outcome. Hence the temp ban to bring the situation under control and, for the sake of absolute clarity, I'm going to let Ped and the Mods decide how to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Well as far as I can see, if I had a bass I wanted to sell, something worth around £1500, and I was made redundant and had to think about a new house, paying for the old house, my car, applying for new jobs and all that other stuff, if a couple of people offered me £1500 for the bass frankly I would take those offers and keep them in hand whilst I was sorting out other far more important things before evaluating how much I could justify selling the bass for and then reassess things at that point. I mean, this goes on all the time because sales here aren't always set in stone. people post feelers, ask for offers blah blah all the time. Funny how tBBC picks up on just the one. I can't see what all the fuss is about, other than tBBC trying to undermine the people who own and run the site for the sake of it. I thought he was past that. As far as I can see this amounts to nothing but ridiculous bullying and it won't be tolerated, no matter how funny tBBC is/thinks he is. ped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vroomfondel Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='426745' date='Mar 5 2009, 10:33 PM']It's bullying. BBC and others in the past know that if I have to defend myself against open and highly personal attacks, that's going to undermine my credibility in dealing with other members as well. The reason is that because in the eyes of critics and those who disagree with how the forum is being run, it will always be difficult to to draw the line between personal interest and the interests of the forum. Additionally if we let insulting behaviour slide as being 'ironic' then it sets a precedent for other behaviour from more impressionable individuals who interpret such ironic behaviour literally and imitate it. This makes managing standards of behaviour on forum even more difficult. Some of the members may have thicker skins than others. There's a diverse world out there, but doesn't mean that the thicker skinned members opinions should run rough shod over those who are more sensitive. Otherwise we'd end up with a forum full of insensitive assholes, wouldn't we? Given the personal attacks on me, some might say I have a vested personal interest in the outcome. Hence the temp ban to bring the situation under control and, for the sake of absolute clarity, I'm going to let Ped and the Mods decide how to deal with it.[/quote] Well its sad that you as owner seem to have so many people attacking you on your own site, sounds like a lot of people don't like you? Maybe they're just jealous of you're bass!? Maybe you need a thicker skin as well and just let it ride, lifes too short, you should enjoy it and stop being so prissy and sensitive? But as you say if you feel your being bullied then you have no tecaher to cry to because you ARE the teacher? Whatever, life has some hard breaks but keep perspective, its only the internet after all innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='426745' date='Mar 5 2009, 10:33 PM']It's bullying.[/quote] Is there a history of this sort of behaviour? Because this particular incident doesn't fit the description. The stuff he posted was rather stark and blunt but that's just how he is. I can understand where you're coming from too, and I hope you get a fair price for your bass, but it might be an idea to just post the price that's in your head and see if anyone offers you it. Save yourself a lot of silly bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='426793' date='Mar 5 2009, 11:42 PM']Save yourself a lot of silly bother.[/quote] Hmmm, maybe. But why is the bother being created in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='426793' date='Mar 5 2009, 11:42 PM']Is there a history of this sort of behaviour? Because this particular incident doesn't fit the description. The stuff he posted was rather stark and blunt but that's just how he is. I can understand where you're coming from too, and I hope you get a fair price for your bass, but it might be an idea to just post the price that's in your head and see if anyone offers you it. Save yourself a lot of silly bother.[/quote] I would say that's a perfectly reasonable stance. I don't think the beef was being a bully or attacking CK personally. I find him intrinsically self deprecating to be honest. He has a slightly dangerous sense of humour (and in the internet context it can be misinterpreted) but where would humour be without that? He also has a sense of morality and blunt honesty which, while sometimes misguided, cuts though one hell of a lot of bullsh*t. He did leven his offending remark with his own Fred West comment. I think he probably watches too much Jerry Sadowitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='426797' date='Mar 5 2009, 11:46 PM']Hmmm, maybe. But why is the bother being created in the first place?[/quote] there's one reason - and from my persepective ONLY ONE REASON. You as Root Admin and "master of the Universe" or whatever, set the rules regarding the running of this site and the rules regarding sales. Then you appear to flout them. Other people might do it to, but your job is to take them to task. It was obvious that the mods wouldn't pull you about it so I did. Your reply was that you didn't have time to split hairs with me. What? I'm too bloody inconsequential to be bothered with? That's all it is. I'm taking you to task for inconsistancy. tBBC? I can't and won't and don't speak for him, he does his own thing. Me? I think you're inconsistant. You set the rules. Stick to them. That's why the bother was created in the first place, by me. That's the sole reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='ped' post='426766' date='Mar 5 2009, 11:07 PM']Well as far as I can see, if I had a bass I wanted to sell, something worth around £1500, and I was made redundant and had to think about a new house, paying for the old house, my car, applying for new jobs and all that other stuff, if a couple of people offered me £1500 for the bass frankly I would take those offers and keep them in hand whilst I was sorting out other far more important things before evaluating how much I could justify selling the bass for and then reassess things at that point.[/quote] Would you also advertise the fact that you'd received a couple of offers for £1500? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='liamcapleton' post='426813' date='Mar 6 2009, 12:14 AM']I feel bad about this post being so badly perverted, it seems a shame that a couple of fairly ridiculous and misinformed comments where they really weren't required should spoil the sale of a great bass[/quote] Thanks Liam. Unfortunately there's a handful of people who have been banned in the past form this forum and from Bassworld (a predecessor), who have been conducting a personal vendetta against me for the last four years. I don't make much of it on the forum because it doesn't really affect me that much and its not fair on the forum either. Maybe there's some background that I'm not aware of. BTW, I still maintain this isn't an auction. I'm accepting offers. None of the individuals who made any of the initial offers have complained about my posting their offers. I made it known to them at the time that I was looking for more - not that its anyone else's business anyway. I can't find any mention of auctions, banned, encouraged or otherwise in the Guidelines. So I'm at a loss to understand where this no auctions thing came from. Has there been some conversation somewhere that I'm not aware of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosebass Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='421213' date='Feb 27 2009, 06:38 PM']Now two offers at £1500.[/quote] To me this is quite simple....its an auction. [quote]A method for selling an asset to the highest bidder.[/quote] A sale is where you state a price and if it is offered you sell to that person. I personally haven't got a problem with this but if it is against forum rules you should state a a price and sell the bass at that price. If you had put out a "feeler" then you could of taken offers on the bass with no one knowing what was being offered , but to state a price "offered" or "bid" however you want to put it is whats put you in this position and I agree with BBC and others on this point. I'm sorry you are unemployed but join the queue , there are plenty on this forum in the same boat me included so you have my sympathies in that respect. BBC is abrasive and can be rash in his postings but he is also a great source of amusement and acid wit. As for the references to whoever , I've been called worse and so have many others , take it on the chin and rise above it. I feel you have abused your authority because actually BBC was correct in stating this was an auction and you didn't like it. I suggest he is reinstated to explain himself otherwise this will go on and on and the issue has become more important than the bass for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='Prosebass' post='426828' date='Mar 6 2009, 12:49 AM']but if it is against forum rules[/quote] If you aren't sure, why are you even contributing to this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='426829' date='Mar 6 2009, 12:51 AM']If you aren't sure, why are you even contributing to this thread?[/quote] How to win friends and influence people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='Scoop' post='426834' date='Mar 6 2009, 12:58 AM']How to win friends and influence people...[/quote] I don't understand the point you're making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosebass Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='426829' date='Mar 6 2009, 12:51 AM']If you aren't sure, why are you even contributing to this thread?[/quote] Clarification ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='Prosebass' post='426837' date='Mar 6 2009, 01:00 AM']Clarification ?[/quote] I'd like to know where the rule no auctions came from. If there has been some precedent in how a previous thread has been managed that I was otherwise unaware of, then I'd like to know about it. EDIT: I'd like to know because the Guidelines obviously need to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosebass Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='426840' date='Mar 6 2009, 01:06 AM']I'd like to know where the rule no auctions came from. If there has been some precedent in how a previous thread has been managed that I was otherwise unaware of, then I'd like to know about it.[/quote] There nothing in the Forum notes , so no problem . Just thought it needed clarifying , looks like its all got blown out of proportion. Best of luck with the sale, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 [quote name='Prosebass' post='426841' date='Mar 6 2009, 01:10 AM']There nothing in the Forum notes , so no problem . Just thought it needed clarifying , looks like its all got blown out of proportion. Best of luck with the sale,[/quote] Thank you. EDIT: Can anyone else point me in the right direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 All I will say -- and I'll probably just get accused of sticking up for a mate, but f*** it here's my 2p worth anyway -- is this. People have complained about feelers in the past. Still they happen, but there's no massive outcry or accusations of hypocrisy and nobody gets compared to a mass murderer because of it, even if it is only a bit of a larf, ho ho ho [i]*ping*[/i] oh dear there goes another rib. And there's nothing in the forum rules or marketplace guidelines about feelers. However, I am not aware of [i]any[/i] complaints about auctions or taking offers; if there are any, there certainly haven't been anywhere near the number of complaints as there have been about feelers. The very first time I have seen any fuss being made about auctions is guess where? yes dear reader, 'tis here in this sorry saga. And guess what, there's nothing in the rules or guidelines about auctions either. You can bet your ass that if I had just lost my job [i]again[/i] for the umpteenth time in not very long and had just blown some serious wedge on a custom bass, yes I'd be looking to sell something too... and if it was a bass that was worth considerably more than the offers I'd received, I'd be on the lookout for a bit more. And if I could avoid getting involved with fleaBay to do it, I bloody would. So what if he's not the only jobseeker on these boards? That makes no difference whatsoever to it. And I'd also be a bit pissed off if some bloke had accused me of being a hypocrite for doing something I'd [i]never[/i] complained about or stopped other people from doing. Still, it's all a bit of a laugh isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt-pluck Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) FWIW - a little part of the basschatter in me dies whenever BBC gets banned for speaking his mind ( albeit it with 'gusto'! ). We're all grown-ups here, BBC's posts are raucous and lairy ( and often hilarious ) but there is usually an element of sense and/or truth in most of the stuff he posts - and anyway we're all grown-ups and we can handle the banter right? Personally I'm not bothered about the nature of the sale in this thread - auction/feeler/straight sale - who cares? But the whole thing does read badly when the man gets the chop for speaking out against what he (and others by the look of it) see as less that consistent behaviour by mods. I don't have anything against you mods btw - I think this site is well run on the whole - but the censorship issue will always raise hackles. Restore karma - unban BBC, sell the bass, move on, etc.... Pluck Edited March 6, 2009 by sgt-pluck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatboter Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 The Belgian government is very worried about the lack of Celinder basses in our country and has send you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Lol, everyone should probably have checked the rules before they accused CK of breaking them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 +1 In fact, think of a number, multiply it by Fred Goodwin's pension, and then + that. [quote name='sgt-pluck' post='426889' date='Mar 6 2009, 07:58 AM']speaking out against what he (and others by the look of it) see as less that consistent behaviour by mods.[/quote] But how can it be less than consistent behaviour, when it doesn't go against anything that's been said in the past, and doesn't contravene any rules or guidelines? What, exactly, is it less than consistent [i]with[/i]? This is what I can't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedontcarebear Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I put a bass on ages ago and just got idiots moaning about it not having a price, I just didn't know the value and wanted to get as much as possible! But it wasn't the mod's etc moaning, just the usual busy bodies who have nothing better to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangee Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) Putting the West and Shipman comments aside, it seems that this whole issue has been based around the 'is it or isn't it' an auction debate, with CK saying it isn't an auction, others saying it is. For me, stating the price of an opening bid and then saying you'll see if you can get higher offers is an auction. The issue now seems to have been moved onto 'can anyone find anything in BC history where it says you can't have an auction?'’ Would it make more sense for someone in 'power' to clarify that this is, in fact, an auction? If the mods then deem that auctions are acceptable (as this is clearly a grey area for members) they can (retrospectively) make it clear in the guidelines and allow this auction to run. Then no one could really have any complaints...and maybe the thread can get back on track. Edited March 6, 2009 by dangee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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