Mark Bass Rig

[Graham Milton]

Hi All,

I have commented on this before and had any number of suggestions, however I have tried every conceivable combination of settings, including an MXR compressor, (which frankly seems like a waste of time and money as it has absolutely no discernible affect on the sound). I have also tried adjusting the decibel knob on the 15" speaker to the absolute extreme in both directions, with absolutely no difference in the sound. This rig sounds as dull as ditch water on every setting with a brand new Roasted maple neck Stingray. I intend therefore to procure an entirely new set up. Does anyone have a suggestion for the ultimate lightweight rig?

[yorks5stringer]

Adjusting the 15" speaker tweeter may not do that much as you have 2 X 10" speakers above it which will contribute more edge to the sound.  You do realise the tweeter control is fairly subtle, as you speak as if you think it is for the 15" speaker itself? TBH if you cannot get a good sound out of that rig I'd be very surprised. Have you had someone else play it and you stand 30' away?

Also your Gain looks as if it's at 10.00 o'clock. Have you tried it higher and has that livened up the sound? You can always dial back on the Master volume to compensate.

 

Good luck, I'm sure others will be along to offer their input....

[MoJoKe]

Graham, that rig should sound absolutely epic!  I have been using Markbass for donkeys years, trust me, I know!  If it doesn't, then you have a fault somewhere, and that may be your amp, cabs or bass.....  has it sounded good with previous basses, or is this your first Markbass rig? Has the bass sound good though other rigs?

So, forgive me in advance, not trying to teach egg sucking here, but here's the best start point, and then work from there.

1. forget the compressor for now (the effect of well configured compression will smooth out your overall sound, and balance your loud/quiet notes, but won't necessarily help your tone!)
2.  Set the bass with all knobs on 10 o'clock.  Is it active, and have you a new battery in the bass?
3.  The knob on the side of the cab attenuates the tweeter.  Full on its full tweeter, roll it off to reduce the level of the tweeter. For now, set it at full, at its brightest.
4.  Make sure the speaker cable is good quality and working properly.  DON'T use a guitar cable, use a speaker cable.
5.  Set all four tone controls at 12 o'clock, set both the VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulation) and VPF (Variable Pre-shape Filter) at zero (VLE at maximum probably will make it sound dull!)
6. Turn the Input Gain, Line out and Master Output to zero.  Plug your bass in with a known good cable, and play as loud and with as much attack as you would usually play and slowly increase the Input Gain on the amp until the blue clip light flickers, then back it off until it hardly ever flickers.
7.  Turn up the Output level, and you should have glorious, bright, punchy Markbass tone.

If none of that works, you may well have a problem, but this could be as likely to be the bass, preamp battery, guitar cable or speaker cable, but yes it may be the amp or extension cab....   you'll need to work through your signal chain to work out where the problem is!

Hope that helps!

[ambient]

Set the VLE and VPF controls to off, then set the other controls to flat, and start from there. I’ve been using MB for years, it seriously shouldn’t sound dull.

[peteb]

The thing with Mark Bass is that the amps are pretty transparent, so it's not going to send like (for example) a SVT rig or whatever. 

I have used MB at various times in thepast (including that 210 combo you have) with a number of basses (including a Stingray) and they have always sounded great. 

[ambient]

You’ve probably already done so, but check the battery in the bass. The number of times I’ve worried something is wrong my amp, only to then realise my stupidity and it’s the battery that’s gone.

[Doctor J]

I had a 3 band Stingray before and, to get the best out of it, I always felt a little mid-boost was required.

Personally, I would set the input gain on the amp to just below where it’s starting to clip, set all the amp EQ to flat and use that as a starting point. I always find amps sound best with the input gain set that way.

Then, a subtle mid-boost on the bass with a gentle roll-off of some treble and follow your ears from there.

[songofthewind]

14 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

I had a 3 band Stingray before and, to get the best out of it, I always felt a little mid-boost was required.

Personally, I would set the input gain on the amp to just below where it’s starting to clip, set all the amp EQ to flat and use that as a starting point. I always find amps sound best with the input gain set that way.

Then, a subtle mid-boost on the bass with a gentle roll-off of some treble and follow your ears from there.

This. 

[Roger2611]

Have you tried just using the combo? I found the 1x15 MB cab a little dominating in a set up with the 2x10 cab but I would never have described the set up as dull, in the end I sold the 1x15 and brought a MB 4x10 cab instead, personally I found it gave me a more balanced sound (when standing close to the amp, which is probably the norm for most of us) but it was big, heavy and for 99% of the gigs I was doing the 2x10 was perfectly capable so again it was sold on. I regularly used the MB rig with my 2 band EQ Stingray and again I would never have described the set up as dull unless the treble was rolled completely off on the bass!

As others have suggested it does sound like there is a fault somewhere in the system, do you have the ability to run the bass through another amp or another bass through you MB rig and see if the issue transfers to one of the other set ups as at least that would help you isolate where the issue lay?

I hope you can get it sorted as you do have a seriously capable set up there   

[Jakester]

What sound are you looking for? If you are able to articulate that, then it may be possible to give you suggestions in relation to EQing etc. 
 

I’d also echo all of the above - MB amps work slightly differently to other brands in that the filter knobs start affecting the tone straight after ‘zero’, rather than from 12 o’clock. My first mistake was to set *everything* flat (including the filters) and it didn’t sound great. However, start the EQ flat and the filters at zero and you should get a great starting point. 

[la bam]

I'd forget the compressor and go straight bass to amp.

I'd then find out what setting flat or off is for the VLE and VLF - I had a lm3 years ago and I remember it's not where you think.

Then try and eq a great sound without them. I had the same issue on my lm3 - sounded dull. It was just that I wasnt using those correctly.

Once you have a great sound without them, only use them to make slight adjustments.

[drTStingray]

Some good advice already here. Another couple of points:-

1) The Stingray Special has 18 volt electronics so in my experience will clip with the input much above 11 o clock. (Btw I also generally use a Stingray Special). The same happens with a Bongo but I can get slightly higher input gain without clipping with a normal Stingray (dependent on how hard you play) 

2) I have the an LM3 and two 2x10s - I originally had the same as you - a 1x15 and a 2 x10 but moved to the current set up as a felt the 1 X 15 was too bassy for me.

3) For home or rehearsal use (and all but large gigs) I only use one 2x10 - either not taking the second cab or not plugging it in (as now) - the amp is rated at 350 watts or thereabouts with one 8 ohm cab, 500 with two - 500 watts is unnecessary in my experience for all but medium to larger settings. 

4) For quiet use, I would lower the input gain and up the output so that the input is not higher than the output. For home use my input gain is around 7 o clock and the output similar with the volume probably reduced on the bass - anything higher would result in neighbour issues! 

5) Contrary to what has been said earlier, the tweeters make a big difference, especially with a bass like a Stingray with shimmering treble availability. I tend to have one tweeter on full and the other off, being careful to check when using one cabinet its not the one with the tweeter off!!

6) I agree with the settings on tone - 12 o clock to start - filters off. 

7) Are your strings worn out - the bass has two batteries - in my experience it will fail completely if there's a battery issue (though I've only ever had this happen during tune up/before sound check three times in 40 odd years of using active basses). 

8) The Stingray Special has a completely revoiced pre amp - it's really good - more bass is available but most importantly the mid range is very different - you can afford to boost that although at centre it creates a very warm sound. On the older 3 band I use the mid range with it cut significantly to get near the 2 band Stingray sound. Boosting the mid range will enable you to cut through a mix in a good way - I sometimes adjust the mids on the fly as some songs really require this. 

Best of luck - as others have said, that rig and bass should sound phenomenal. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by drTStingray

[ClassicVibes]

Hearing test ?

[pbasspecial]

Maybe what you're really after is a P bass through an Ampeg/Ashdown for a grittier tone.

I had a Mark Bass Randy Jackson amp.  Was a decent enough beast but there was no sizzle with the steak.

Can you borrow another rig and A/B it side by side.

Greyhounds aren't guard dogs and Rottweilers won't win races.

[martthebass]

Like others have said, I'm surprised that the rig sounds dull, especially with a Stingray. That said, I used to use an MB 151HR with an LM3 and generally found the 15" too bassy for my liking, it was also very unforgiving in relation to positioning against a back wall.  I ended up moving to 2 separate MB 12" cabs (NY121) and with both the LM3 or the Little Marcus MB 500W it sounds plenty alive to me (and that is with VPF/VLE at zero and the horrible piezo units in both cabs turned off).

Edited April 29, 2020 by martthebass

[jrixn1]

The topic title "Mark Bass Rig" and the large picture of said rig have put focus on it, with many replies suggesting how to adjust the Mark Bass.

However, I think he is no longer interested in keeping that rig.  I remember his recent previous topic, https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/419807-lightweight-gear ,  which provided some answers to the questions people are now asking here.  He has been happy for 20 years with his other setup, which is a Status Energy into a Trace stack.  

I wonder if a better topic question would have been posting the following picture and asking "Which lightweight setup will sound the most like this?"

[peteb]

2 hours ago, pbasspecial said:

Maybe what you're really after is a P bass through an Ampeg/Ashdown for a grittier tone.

Greyhounds aren't guard dogs and Rottweilers won't win races.

I think that this is the real issue. I am not aware of any lightweight bass rig that is going to sound much like the OP's original Trace Elliot set-up 

[yorks5stringer]

3 hours ago, pbasspecial said:

Maybe what you're really after is a P bass through an Ampeg/Ashdown for a grittier tone.

I had a Mark Bass Randy Jackson amp.  Was a decent enough beast but there was no sizzle with the steak.

Can you borrow another rig and A/B it side by side.

Greyhounds aren't guard dogs and Rottweilers won't win races.

There's a greyhound near me that barks at the slightest noise....

[jrixn1]

31 minutes ago, peteb said:

I am not aware of any lightweight bass rig that is going to sound much like the OP's original Trace Elliot set-up 

Tagging @stewblack as I believe he has a room full of both older Trace gear and  some newer smaller/lightweight stuff? 

[stewblack]

6 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

Tagging @stewblack as I believe he has a room full of both older Trace gear and  some newer smaller/lightweight stuff? 

As has been said there isn't anything like an old school Trace stack. However I have used my Trace, Ampeg and Ashdown rigs through Barefaced cabs for a couple of years now. I would say nothing beats a Trace, biamped into a TE 15 and a TE 2x10 but I can't lift them anymore and the Barefaced is good enough. 

My conclusion: a good solid Trace amp on top of a BF Compact  or ideally two Compacts will give you all your heart might desire. 

I am also happy with the Elf but early days yet, and will be trying an Ashdown EVO amp into two 12s soon. I'll report back as and when. 

[Lozz196]

I’ve always found TE cabs to have a sort of spike/accented upper mids. Add that to the eq curve of that TE amp and there’s a lot boosted in areas that Markbass eq can’t do, combined with the top-end roll-off on their cabs. 

[stef030]

so I use a markbass 121h combo and matching cab

I have the amp set flat and my bass controls the sound,from my 

overwaters and its absolutely awesome

I do use a compressor in my pedal board but only used on a few bits and bobs,

 

[MoJoKe]

6 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

The topic title "Mark Bass Rig" and the large picture of said rig have put focus on it, with many replies suggesting how to adjust the Mark Bass.

However, I think he is no longer interested in keeping that rig.  I remember his recent previous topic, https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/419807-lightweight-gear ,  which provided some answers to the questions people are now asking here.  He has been happy for 20 years with his other setup, which is a Status Energy into a Trace stack.  

I wonder if a better topic question would have been posting the following picture and asking "Which lightweight setup will sound the most like this?"

Well, the thing is, the answer to that is Markbass.  I switched from TE to Markbass, and I (and my back) have never looked back.

The rig should sound epic.  The question was not phrased "Can I get great tone from my Markbass?", but "I'm not getting great tone from my Markbass with this Stingray".

That sounds to me more like "Guys I don't want to change out, but it's sounding wrong.  Before I give up what should I expect, and what else can I try?"

It feels like there is something "not right" in the elements of this setup and its signal chain, and there are quite a few things to check before sticking up a "for sale" advert, because that rig should sound epic!

[MoJoKe]

5 hours ago, peteb said:

I think that this is the real issue. I am not aware of any lightweight bass rig that is going to sound much like the OP's original Trace Elliot set-up 

I couldn't even begin to consider agreeing with this statement!!!

I can think of at least 6 different Markbass heads, including the LM3 in his CMD102p combo which have the capability to beast a Trace Elliott with the appropriate mix of cabs!  And thats before you even start to work your way through other brands...

Try a Markbass STU into a STD104HF x STD104HR and you'll see what I mean...  it'll take your head off! 

[jrixn1]

22 minutes ago, MoJoKe said:

The rig should sound epic.  The question was not phrased "Can I get great tone from my Markbass?", but "I'm not getting great tone from my Markbass with this Stingray".

Fair enough, I see your point.  Furthermore, it's not just the head and cabs which have changed, but the bass as well. @Graham Milton , how does it sound if you play the Status through the Markbass rig?