U2 on J. Ross Show.....

[4000]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='422547' date='Mar 1 2009, 06:50 PM']Bit like the Catholic Church then ?

What I find very strange is members telling other members how they should be expressing themselves....surely thats up to the individual ?
If your heroes are being slagged off then don't throw your toys out of the pram but put a valid argument forward as to why you like them. If others still think they are "crap" and say so then either agree to disagree or read your copy of the Daily Mail.[/quote]

Like [i]any[/i] church.....isn't that what music is in a sense? Maybe it isn't to you but it is to many. Ask Lemmy....

For me, music is about being moved. That's all there is. Be it Bach or Motorhead, that for me is the whole point of it. Of course that in itself is subjective. However if you feel people have no right to be moved by music and to decide the music they like based on that premise, then I find that rather peculiar. It's easy to feel that your knowledge as a musician makes you superior to the average punter when it comes to listening to music, but personally I often wish I could still hear music like the average punter hears it instead of getting worked up about exactly how the part was recorded and what the bassist was wearing that morning.

As for "heroes being slagged off" etc, you seem to have completely missed the point of what I've said. None of U2 are my heroes. It's nothing to do with that. The criticism seems based purely on personal taste. I have no problem with that. What the critics seem to fail to see is that (and I can't believe I have to reiterate this; I believe I'd already put forward a valid argument which you seem to be ignoring, maybe simply because you agree with the criticism), just because they don't like it doesn't necessarily make it crap, the same as just because they do like something doesn't make it good. It's only good or bad [i]to them[/i]. Maybe that's all that's important to some, but that's what bothers me, the "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" attitude. It's not really got anything to do with U2, it's a generic failing of perception in human beings that drives me to distraction, and is responsible for most of the crap in the world. I'm not a great fan of U2 buy they seem to have touched a lot of people and become very successful playing music they believe in. Personally I have no issue with that.

Ironically, your Daily Mail comment is exactly what I'm talking about, as they're guilty of the same thing and it's the polar opposite of what I'm trying to say. Or did you miss that too?

[4000]

[quote name='wombatboter' post='422602' date='Mar 1 2009, 07:55 PM']I'm not even a big U2 fan but I'm just struck by the negativity there is on this forum... putting musicians down and really not contributing anything except saying "no". That's just the easiest thing there is and I see that all around me. If it should be encouraged that more totally useless remarks should be made all in the name of 'I'm entitled to my opinion"... well go ahead. As soon someone says anything about the uselessness they get the reaction "But we can write anything we like..". If only it would add something to what I don't know
I'm not interested in that sort of people.. "McCartney is a lousy bassplayer" "Knopfler wrote stupid songs" "Slipknot rules and is better than Jamiroquai"
Sigh.......
You probably also won't care about the fact that there is such a big difference between reading on Bass-chat and other bass-forums across Europe where there seems to be just a tiny little bit more respect and positivity.[/quote]

+1000

[Prosebass]

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='422581' date='Mar 1 2009, 07:39 PM']I read that reply to Below's very articulate post and one word popped into my head:

w***er!


I think you're spot on Jon, and that reply reinforced your comment one hundredfold..

Peter[/quote]

Ouch ....seeing as that was my reply I guess the w***er was directed at me ?

Seeing as some of this thread has been about how childish it is to call people names, it would appear you are just as bad as the rest of us, welcome to the club and thanks for the informed opinion on me.

[GreeneKing]

If you think about what I said, I expressed the thought that unbidden jumped into my head on reading someone being imo unnecessarily quite rude to someone else that I know and value immensely. I was being honest in my unconscious process, not calling you a w***er. I don't know you and therefore reserve my judgement. Like most people you are probably a decent guy.

If you feel fit to judge folk you don't know then fair be it. If you actually went out of your way to get to know people don't be surprised if you are proven wrong.

[quote]So you tell me who has the forum's best interests at heart.....[/quote]

You are undoubtedly my hero Did you perchance have any basses for sale?

Peter

Edited March 1, 2009 by GreeneKing

[Prosebass]

[quote name='4000' post='422748' date='Mar 1 2009, 10:36 PM']Like [i]any[/i] church.....isn't that what music is in a sense? Maybe it isn't to you but it is to many. Ask Lemmy....

For me, music is about being moved. That's all there is. Be it Bach or Motorhead, that for me is the whole point of it. Of course that in itself is subjective. However if you feel people have no right to be moved by music and to decide the music they like based on that premise, then I find that rather peculiar. It's easy to feel that your knowledge as a musician makes you superior to the average punter when it comes to listening to music, but personally I often wish I could still hear music like the average punter hears it instead of getting worked up about exactly how the part was recorded and what the bassist was wearing that morning.

As for "heroes being slagged off" etc, you seem to have completely missed the point of what I've said. None of U2 are my heroes. It's nothing to do with that. The criticism seems based purely on personal taste. I have no problem with that. What the critics seem to fail to see is that (and I can't believe I have to reiterate this; I believe I'd already put forward a valid argument which you seem to be ignoring, maybe simply because you agree with the criticism), just because they don't like it doesn't necessarily make it crap, the same as just because they do like something doesn't make it good. It's only good or bad [i]to them[/i]. Maybe that's all that's important to some, but that's what bothers me, the "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" attitude. It's not really got anything to do with U2, it's a generic failing of perception in human beings that drives me to distraction, and is responsible for most of the crap in the world. I'm not a great fan of U2 buy they seem to have touched a lot of people and become very successful playing music they believe in. Personally I have no issue with that.

Ironically, your Daily Mail comment is exactly what I'm talking about, as they're guilty of the same thing and it's the polar opposite of what I'm trying to say. Or did you miss that too?[/quote]

The Daily Mail quote was Irony, and I have been known to play devils advocate from time to time. I agree with you entirely and we are probably trying to say the same thing. Everyone has an opinion , we may disagree, think they are misguided, cannot understand them or whatever but they can still think what they like and say what they like. I don't use the term "crap" to describe them, I do have strong opinions on Bono but in reality U2 mean very little to me apart from their weeks worth of free publicity from a sycophantic BBC.
What I find strange is people coming to their defense by saying things like [quote]I find Adam's bass playing far more intersting within the context of the song than say listening to Victor Wooton or Jaco. To much noodling or fret w***ing and not enough substance.[/quote] which in itself is subjective !!!!!!!
Its all got a bit Mary Whitehouse and I think its time to end this thread especially as I was called a "w**ker" , but hey I can take it without an army of fans to put the poster of that comment to rights !

After all its only music.....Mind you the Britney / Christina Top 20 special on TMF this afternoon was good..!

[4000]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='422770' date='Mar 1 2009, 10:59 PM']The Daily Mail quote was Irony, and I have been known to play devils advocate from time to time. I agree with you entirely and we are probably trying to say the same thing. Everyone has an opinion , we may disagree, think they are misguided, cannot understand them or whatever but they can still think what they like and say what they like. I don't use the term "crap" to describe them, I do have strong opinions on Bono but in reality U2 mean very little to me apart from their weeks worth of free publicity from a sycophantic BBC.
What I find strange is people coming to their defense by saying things like which in itself is subjective !!!!!!!
Its all got a bit Mary Whitehouse and I think its time to end this thread especially as I was called a "w**ker" , but hey I can take it without an army of fans to put the poster of that comment to rights !

After all its only music.....Mind you the Britney / Christina Top 20 special on TMF this afternoon was good..![/quote]

Unfortunately irony doesn't generally translate well on forums, as I've found to my cost in the past....shame I missed Christina though (no, I'm not being ironic!).

[Prosebass]

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='422765' date='Mar 1 2009, 10:56 PM']If you think about what I said, I expressed the thought that unbidden jumped into my head on reading someone being imo unnecessarily quite rude to someone else that I know and value immensely. I was being honest in my unconscious process, not calling you a w***er. I don't know you and therefore reserve my judgement. Like most people you are probably a decent guy.

If you feel fit to judge folk you don't know then fair be it. If you actually went out of your way to get to know people don't be surprised if you are proven wrong.



You are undoubtedly my hero Did you perchance have any basses for sale?

Peter[/quote]

NB: Edited my original reply to the above as I misread the "intent" of it. (must stop ranting at people)
Unless it was double bluff irony....now I'm confused..

Edited March 2, 2009 by Prosebass

[GreeneKing]

I'm a bit weary about all this.

You made a point of your altruism in going to a bass bash and I responded with irony. No I'm not casting aspersians and as I did say you are undoubtedly a decent guy. You choose to take 'great offence', I can't possibly cause it. That's entirely with you.

I too have been around the forum for a while, and both it's precursors. It owes me nothing. I play bass to a fairly low standard, started late in life and yet get a great buzz out of standing my ground and doing my bit with other like minded musicians (oh and a drummer). I have met a great number of fine people both on this forum and others and to be honest I've not fallen out with anyone to my mind although me being me has created some 'artistic differences' along the way. Such is the beauty of life.

I wish you all the best with your bass 'business'.

Peter

[Prosebass]

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='422804' date='Mar 1 2009, 11:41 PM']I'm a bit weary about all this.

You made a point of your altruism in going to a bass bash and I responded with irony. No I'm not casting aspersians and as I did say you are undoubtedly a decent guy. You choose to take 'great offence', I can't possibly cause it. That's entirely with you.

I too have been around the forum for a while, and both it's precursors. It owes me nothing. I play bass to a fairly low standard, started late in life and yet get a great buzz out of standing my ground and doing my bit with other like minded musicians (oh and a drummer). I have met a great number of fine people both on this forum and others and to be honest I've not fallen out with anyone to my mind although me being me has created some 'artistic differences' along the way. Such is the beauty of life.

I wish you all the best with your bass 'business'.

Peter[/quote]

I,ve deleted my reply and read your initial "w**ker" comment and will hold my hand up that I "misread" the post.
You are not the only one getting weary !
As was stated earlier Irony doesn't seem to go down well on the forum....one of the problems with posting comments and not being able to see the person commenting. I'm guilty of it myself so I suppose that makes us equal ?
Be warned though I do wear my heart on my sleeve and say things exactly as I see them......I often find its best that way.

thanks for the encouragement....

Paul

Edited March 2, 2009 by Prosebass

[GreeneKing]

[quote]Be warned though I do wear my heart on my sleeve and say things exactly as I see them......I often find its best that way.[/quote]

+1 on that

[risingson]

I just got back from a gig where we got requested by some drunk punter to play 'With or Without You'... I laughed to myself, thought of this convo and politely declined

Sorry if my own opinions got out of hand. It's all in good fun!

[skankdelvar]

While I'm in two minds about both U2 (sometimes great, sometimes dull) and Bono (good causes, but he does go on), I would like to offer the following observation:

I saw them at Earl's Court a few years ago and the audience had the highest proportion of fit women I've ever seen at a rock gig.

And the overall M:F ratio was about 50:50.

So they're doing something right.

Edited March 2, 2009 by skankdelvar

[Rich]

[quote name='liamcapleton' post='422849' date='Mar 2 2009, 01:01 AM']I just got back from a gig where we got requested by some drunk punter to play 'With or Without You'... I laughed to myself, thought of this convo and politely declined [/quote]

Good job you managed not to actually laugh out loud, or said drunkard might have taken it the wrong way

[risingson]

It's the sort of pub where if you did laugh out loud then you're in danger of getting a pool cue smashed over ya head!!

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='422865' date='Mar 2 2009, 03:03 AM']I saw them at Earl's Court a few years ago and the audience had the highest proportion of fit women I've ever seen at a rock gig.[/quote]

I thought that's why everyone who is anyone is in a band? Free booze, nice ladies...

[Prosebass]

[quote name='liamcapleton' post='422849' date='Mar 2 2009, 01:01 AM']I just got back from a gig where we got requested by some drunk punter to play 'With or Without You'... I laughed to myself, thought of this convo and politely declined

Sorry if my own opinions got out of hand. It's all in good fun![/quote]

Would you say "drunk punter" was your typical U2 fan.....

[Paul Cooke]

oh dear...

opinions are like a***holes.... everyone has one...

[risingson]

I hope being a British site, there are some Alan Partridge fans here... a clip from where Alan pretends to his Ukrainian girlfriend that he's friends with Bono. Hilarious

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRRhfCYfTs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRRhfCYfTs[/url]

[51m0n]

Total personal opinion, cant stand U2, never have. Although the first two songs I heard from them (Sunday Bloody Sunday and something else) I thought were OK at the time, I never felt they really did anything particularly great or all that worthy of amazement. Not once.

Having said that I never liked the Smiths either (gets asbestos coat on and ducks).

And Bono does his very best to come across as a t*t every time I see or hear anything from him.

Last point, just having a huge number of sales doesn't make anything good in this industry - really. It is, and always was, very much a self perpetuating marketing machine, thats why they were on the JR show in the first place, no doubt billed as the saviours of rock and roll. ANd the vast majority of the public have historically bought what they were told to by said marketing machine. So don't quote sales figures to me as they are no indication of musical quality whatsoever.

Anyone care to judge the output of Stock Aitkin and Waterman purely on sales? And now apply some musical taste and discretion to you judgment; still the same? Then you sir are IMHO a philistine.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='51m0n' post='423065' date='Mar 2 2009, 12:11 PM']Anyone care to judge the output of Stock Aitkin and Waterman purely on sales? And now apply some musical taste and discretion to you judgment; still the same? Then you sir are IMHO a philistine.[/quote]
I thought the majority of your post was quite reasonable but I can't resist a sly tongue in cheek dig at the idea that branding someone a philistine can be done humbly
Surely by definition that is a condescending viewpoint and lacking humility by a margin.

Sorry.... I'm a pedant, I know.

[Rich]

We did the whole "sales = quality? discuss" thing on the Liam Gallagher thread. It's a worthwhile debate, but let's not go there again...

[RayFW]

U2?
What's that all about then?

[jonsmith]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='423072' date='Mar 2 2009, 12:19 PM']I thought the majority of your post was quite reasonable but I can't resist a sly tongue in cheek dig at the idea that branding someone a philistine can be done humbly
Surely by definition that is a condescending viewpoint and lacking humility by a margin.

Sorry.... I'm a pedant, I know.[/quote]

I'm going to be a pedant too and point out that the Philistines were actually quite advanced in comparison to their contemporary neighbours.

[Linus27]

[quote name='51m0n' post='423065' date='Mar 2 2009, 12:11 PM']Total personal opinion, cant stand U2, never have. Although the first two songs I heard from them (Sunday Bloody Sunday and something else) I thought were OK at the time, I never felt they really did anything particularly great or all that worthy of amazement. Not once.

Having said that I never liked the Smiths either (gets asbestos coat on and ducks).

And Bono does his very best to come across as a t*t every time I see or hear anything from him.

Last point, just having a huge number of sales doesn't make anything good in this industry - really. It is, and always was, very much a self perpetuating marketing machine, thats why they were on the JR show in the first place, no doubt billed as the saviours of rock and roll. ANd the vast majority of the public have historically bought what they were told to by said marketing machine. So don't quote sales figures to me as they are no indication of musical quality whatsoever.

Anyone care to judge the output of Stock Aitkin and Waterman purely on sales? And now apply some musical taste and discretion to you judgment; still the same? Then you sir are IMHO a philistine.[/quote]

Not sure who is more of a t*t. Bono or Morrisey. Morrisey keeps raving on about being a eco friendly vegatarian celibate ponse who dances around with flowers in his back pocket with an elvis quiff singing the same morbid depresive lyrics about someone either in a coma or about to be run over by a bus.

Have to disagree on the sales point. The reason it was raised was because it was claimed U2 were over-rated. 144 million album sales really shows that a lot of people like them and so they can't really be classed as over-rated. Their last album alone sold 9 million. To put it in perspective, Stock Atkin and Waterman have sold 40 million worldwide. A drop in the ocean compared to U2 sales. The argument of sales versus quality however is very different but that was not being discussed.

[Rich]

[quote name='RayFW' post='423092' date='Mar 2 2009, 12:34 PM']U2?
What's that all about then?[/quote]
U2? Absolutely diabolical.


It was notoriously difficult to fly and land, with a very high stall speed and a need for extraordinary equipment balance, leading to many operational accidents within the first few months of its operation. Later versions have however addressed most of these early faults.

[tauzero]

[quote name='liamcapleton' post='422849' date='Mar 2 2009, 01:01 AM']I just got back from a gig where we got requested by some drunk punter to play 'With or Without You'... I laughed to myself, thought of this convo and politely declined [/quote]
Funnily enough, that's one of the numbers I've just proposed that the covers band does. Bloody brilliant song.