Monitoring your bass sound live

[Mike]

Hi all!


I play with a functions group that plays predominantly Soul music. Last gig I was unimpressed with the sound of my bass out front - I only heard it when I turned my amp right down and played. Very boomy. I played around with the mixer (we do our own sound) until it sounded fine - basically highs and high mids were turned down, simple as that.

Now, what I'd like is, when we're soundchecking, to use a pair of sound-cancelling earphones running from the mixing desk (which is close to me on stage) to make sure I'm sitting nicely in the mix. It's important because there's a mixture of fingerstyle funk & slap. Perhaps I could even use these earphones (or just one in) while we're playing to monitor the sound.

Now, I know the ideal way is to get wireless in-ear monitors - we will get them eventually, I have used them before and LOVE them, so I know it's a good investment. But will this plan work? Or will it get overloaded or something like that?


Any help appreciated :-)



Regards


Mike

[Mike]

Oh, I was looking at these:

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shure-E3C-Headphones-MicroDriver-Technology/dp/B0001NNLHK/ref=pd_bbs_5/203-5676893-7006303?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1187097144&sr=8-5"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shure-E3C-Headphon...7144&sr=8-5[/url]

or these

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/customer-reviews/B000E5GKW8/sr=8-4/qid=1187097144/ref=cm_cr_dp_2_1/203-5676893-7006303?ie=UTF8&customer-reviews.sort%5Fby=-SubmissionDate&n=560798&qid=1187097144&sr=8-4"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/custome...7144&sr=8-4[/url]

[The Funk]

Won't the room have an effect on the sound that you won't be able to hear through headphones?

[Mike]

Yes, but what I'm concerned about is the overall sound coming out of the PA. But yes, I take your point. But I think as long as the source is good, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[BOD2]

Technically it should work, but there are a couple of issues to be aware of that might limit it.

If you take a headphone feed from the mixer you'll get the mix sound ok but it might not sound anything like what you'll hear out front. If you use any outboard processors then the headphone are fed before these so you won't hear the effect of that. The PA speakers will colour the sound and you won't hear the effect of that. The room will change the sond too. Also, if the band use any backline then you won't hear how that is contributing to the overall sound.

If you can work within these "limitations" then it should be ok.

I've never tried what you suggest but I have recorded directly from a feed on our mixer. I was always struck by the difference in what was recorded compared with the sound out front and eventually identified the above as the reasons for this.

[Mike]

Great post. Thanks BOD2, appreciate your input.

[daflewis]

i use the e2c as supplied by the sound company on the show that i do and i hate them! very bass light and with a harsh top end. don't know about the e3c but our drummer bought some e4c which are much better but it seems everyone raves about the bose tri-port (be careful, they do in-ears and headphones with the same name)
you can get them for about £50 - £60 on e-bay. (i've been watching - waiting for the best deal.)

my concern would be, if you want to use them to check your sound front of house then what you get through the in ears is not going to be very representative of what you would hear with the room acoustic, the fact that what i hear and what's going out front are so different is the biggest problem for me because it affects the way you articulate so much. - if you hear a big fat sound you tend to play a little more clipped to keep things clean knowing that the natural reverb will lengthen notes and vice-versa.

hope that's of some use and apologies if that's stating the obvious

daf

Edited August 14, 2007 by daflewis

[daflewis]

wow, i was just composing that reply and it looks like you've already covered it! sorry guys, you're too quick for me!

Edited August 14, 2007 by daflewis

[Mike]

No, appreciate all the input!

[Muppet]

Turning it on it's head slightly, would a wireless system for your bass work, allowing you to check out front exactly how you sound, or is the problem purely monitoring?

Steve

[Dood]

Something to add..

Those of you who have ER moulded ear plugs will know what I am talking about..

If you go to a gig and listen to the sound without plugs, in general, the mix in 'the room' is not bad, (well should be good) despite being a wee bit loud.. but when I put my plugs in, i get to hear things at a lower volume but still nice and clear. I have noticed that wearing my plugs makes the PA mix stand out more.. and a lot of the time it's not anything like you'd expect a 'good' PA mix to be in comparison to what you hear without plugs!

Much of the time, when I listen to gigs with my plugs in you can here what frequencies have been pulled down because of what the sound of the room 'adds' to the mix, 'up loud'.

So, my thoughts are that previewing the FOH mix through earphones wont be useful. Using earphones as your stage monitors would be very good though.

[Mike]

Thanks for your thoughts. If that's the case, Dood ([i]Using earphones as your stage monitors would be very good though.[/i]) then why don't more people do it?

[P-T-P]

[quote name='Mike' post='45421' date='Aug 14 2007, 08:19 PM']Thanks for your thoughts. If that's the case, Dood ([i]Using earphones as your stage monitors would be very good though.[/i]) then why don't more people do it?[/quote]

Fear of the unknown!

Plus in-ear monitoring isn't cheap, especially if you want truly individual mixes. My band made the jump earlier this year. The biggest snag we have, because we run our own sound, is that if we're all in-ears and don't have a mate with us to sit out front and listen to what's going on, should something major go wrong (like the left channel of the mix conking out, we've no way of knowing.

On the phones front, we have E2s and E3s. Me and drummer using E3s, singer and guitarist using E2s. I haven't tried gigging the E2s, but they were a little lacking in bass response when noodling around with the IEMs when they first arrived. The E3s were definitely better. However I still find I need to hear/feel the real low part of my signal coming from my amp to be truly comfortable. Of course a big part of it is getting the seal right when using the phones. No seal = no bass.

I agree with what others have said in respect of monitoring FOH via phones, it will work to an extent but won't tell you what the sound out front is actually like for the punters.

[Dood]

[quote name='P-T-P' post='45570' date='Aug 15 2007, 02:51 AM']Fear of the unknown!

Plus in-ear monitoring isn't cheap, especially if you want truly individual mixes. My band made the jump earlier this year. The biggest snag we have, because we run our own sound, is that if we're all in-ears and don't have a mate with us to sit out front and listen to what's going on, should something major go wrong (like the left channel of the mix conking out, we've no way of knowing.

On the phones front, we have E2s and E3s. Me and drummer using E3s, singer and guitarist using E2s. I haven't tried gigging the E2s, but they were a little lacking in bass response when noodling around with the IEMs when they first arrived. The E3s were definitely better. However I still find I need to hear/feel the real low part of my signal coming from my amp to be truly comfortable. Of course a big part of it is getting the seal right when using the phones. No seal = no bass.

I agree with what others have said in respect of monitoring FOH via phones, it will work to an extent but won't tell you what the sound out front is actually like for the punters.[/quote]


+1 that.. I wonder if there's the fear of not being 'right in' the music too? The same excuse used for not wearing ear protection, as some brands of plugs can make you feel 'detached' from the atmosphere as the energy seems to be tamed through attenuation of volume.

[Mike]

Thanks for all your excellent contribution. I think before buying anything I will try with existing headphones and earphones to see what it's like. I'm pushing the band toward wireless in-ear monitoring, so I've also made a thread about that in OT - feel free to proffer your experience and thoughts there.


Thanks again gang - please keep it coming though!