Buzz Feiten Tuning System

[ClassicVibes]

Any ideas on how this works? I've done a ton of research into it this morning but am still no closer in how to tune and intonate the bass using one of these systems. 

[ead]

Isn't this one of those solutions to a problem that nobody really has?

[Maude]

I've just had a little look and it appears to be two things, one is a shelf nut, two is a secret that you have to pay to find out is nothing that special after all, says the cynic in me. 

The nut overhangs the fretboard slightly, in effect moving it closer to the first fret, simple enough, most folks could fit that themselves. Then you pay to have a compensated bridge fitted and adjusted. Surely the 'compensation' is adjusting the intonation, which a normal bridge is capable of. Or am I missing something?

It seems to me that all you need to know is exactly what each string is tuned to and how intonation is set, exactly how far out it is on whichever fret they use to measure. If you had the data then surely anyone could tune this way, as long as you have a very accurate tuner. 

[oldslapper]

I had a lovely Washburn acoustic that had it.
There was not even the slightest feint of buzz and it stayed in tune, so I assumed it worked as described. 
The luthier chap who did my set ups tried to explain it to me, but I glazed over at approximately 3.5 seconds in. 
 

[chris_b]

I think you need a different tuner.

[Maude]

I think I must be misunderstanding it then. 

Apart from the new nut, isn't it just setting your tuning and intonation slightly differently than standard 'even tempered' tuning, which is a compromise where some notes are bang on and some quite a way off, to a tuning which has a different compromise where everything sounds nearly in tune but with a less drastic swing between notes that are in tune and the ones that aren't. 

What is it about the bridge that can't be done with standard bridge intonation adjustment? 

I'm not picking a fight, I'm genuinely intrigued. 🙂

 

[chris_b]

From the Peterson Strobe tuner site:

"The Buzz Feiten Tuning System makes use of special "Buzz Feiten presets" preprogrammed in most Peterson tuners — the strings have to be tuned slightly flat or sharp because of the nut's compensations."

[oldslapper]

My aforementioned Washburn had “buzz feiten” on the headstock. I assumed it was something to do with the nut. 

[Bassassin]

5 minutes ago, chris_b said:

From the Peterson Strobe tuner site:

"The Buzz Feiten Tuning System makes use of special "Buzz Feiten presets" preprogrammed in most Peterson tuners — the strings have to be tuned slightly flat or sharp because of the nut's compensations."

What - so unless you have a specially calibrated tuner, you couldn't correctly tune a guitar fitted with this anyway?

I've wondered about it myself but am tending to concur with @ead .

[BreadBin]

40 minutes ago, Maude said:

I think I must be misunderstanding it then. 

Apart from the new nut, isn't it just setting your tuning and intonation slightly differently than standard 'even tempered' tuning, which is a compromise where some notes are bang on and some quite a way off, to a tuning which has a different compromise where everything sounds nearly in tune but with a less drastic swing between notes that are in tune and the ones that aren't. 

What is it about the bridge that can't be done with standard bridge intonation adjustment? 

I'm not picking a fight, I'm genuinely intrigued. 🙂

 

It is exactly that, just a minor intonation adjustment that can be achieved with a standard bridge and any tuner that shows cents.

There's a table here that shows the tuning.

 

[visog]

I hoped an MTD player would chime in with some of their experiences as some of MT's basses have this feature?

Perhaps the system a bit more noticeable/useful on a guitar particularly in lower position chords where the intonation is 'iffy?

[GisserD]

My understanding is that it improves perception of intervals. It does this by sacrificing some intervals which the ear is less sensitive to (4ths, 5ths)... for those which have less variance before they sound out of tune (min 3rds etc)

It works on a 6 string guitar playing chords, But its a compromise as it really only works in certain positions.

IMHO its totally unnecessary on a bass guitar.

I'd happily be convinced otherwise if anybody has any real world experience with it on bass.

Edited May 8, 2020 by GisserD

[BreadBin]

8 minutes ago, GisserD said:

 

I'd happily be convinced otherwise if anybody has any real world experience with it on bass.

I have experience, I also have a good ear for pitch.

I couldn't see any benefit, frankly.

[JohnR]

My MTD Kingston has it but also has a zero fret which seems to defeat the point. 

[visog]

So it's an alternative version of this...?

[Maude]

5 minutes ago, visog said:

So it's an alternative version of this...?

From my understanding, yes, but less accurate as it's still a compromise. With frets like that you should able to get the notes as close as possible to perfect. 

[warwickhunt]

Do the newer Musicman basses not have a BF nut?  

I also had a Washburn bass that had it but I just tuned it 'normally', never knew I should do otherwise.  I do remember thinking it was b*ll*cks as it would be negated if the guitarist in the band didn't have the same.  

[binky_bass]

Realistically, it's all a bit pointless and over engineered! I'm guessing 99% of bassists on 99% of recordings don't have it and I doubt many of us have listened and thought "if only it had a Buzz Feiten tuning system..."

I don't know who Buzz is, but I don't like him. 

[BreadBin]

8 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

Do the newer Musicman basses not have a BF nut?  

I also had a Washburn bass that had it but I just tuned it 'normally', never knew I should do otherwise.  I do remember thinking it was b*ll*cks as it would be negated if the guitarist in the band didn't have the same.  

You tune the same, it's the intonation tuning that's different

[GisserD]

7 minutes ago, BreadBin said:

You tune the same, it's the intonation tuning that's different

I dont think that you do tune the same. You need to tune to the BFTS to make it work as intended. (You can buy calibrated BTFS tuners)

But as previously stated, its utterly pointless unless your playing chords.

Edited May 8, 2020 by GisserD

[ClassicVibes]

19 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

Do the newer Musicman basses not have a BF nut?  

I also had a Washburn bass that had it but I just tuned it 'normally', never knew I should do otherwise.  I do remember thinking it was b*ll*cks as it would be negated if the guitarist in the band didn't have the same.  

I don't recall seeing a Music Man with a BFTS.

The reason I asked was because I remember playing a mate's MTD KZ4 which had the BFTS and he tried to explain it to me. The bass was fantastic to play but this whole tuning system scared the crap out of me. He was talking about being tuned slightly sharp, setting witness points at the bridge, buying a specific tuner etc. etc. 

[phil.c60]

22 hours ago, GisserD said:

I dont think that you do tune the same. You need to tune to the BFTS to make it work as intended. (You can buy calibrated BTFS tuners)

But as previously stated, its utterly pointless unless your playing chords.

Is it though? if you are recording and the rhythm guitarist (for example) is tuned using this and you play a third as a single note against the chord he plays (if that makes sense) wold it not sound odd? Or do you need the hearing of a bat to notice the difference?

[rubis]

Musicman sell their compensated nuts as aftermarket parts, or at least they did, I have a 4 and a 5 string one. 

I have a Telecaster with an Earvana nut, which is the same type of thing, and it's noticeable on there, particularly on open chords. 

[Old Horse Murphy]

I've got a guitar with it. I wouldn't use anything else now

[GisserD]

1 hour ago, phil.c60 said:

Is it though? if you are recording and the rhythm guitarist (for example) is tuned using this and you play a third as a single note against the chord he plays (if that makes sense) wold it not sound odd? Or do you need the hearing of a bat to notice the difference?

Thats kinda the point. Nobody notices!