On the BBC today: Live music circuit 'risks collapse within weeks'

[Maude]

8 minutes ago, Bassfinger said:

Would they rather people died instead?  The whole country is in crisis and no industry or commerce remains unaffected.  What makes them such a special case? 

I'm guessing we're discussing it here because it's what a lot of folks on this forum do, not because they're special. 

I expect most professions and hobbies have a relevant forum discussing their worries about their field. 

One worry doesn't have to be exclusive, I'm quite capable of worrying about dying, worrying about my career and worrying about how we'll gig again, along with a whole host of other worries all alongside each other. 

I thought this seemed obvious to most. 

[ambient]

15 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Not necessarily, having played originals for the last 6 years most of the gigs we were doing had good audiences. Mainly down to good promoters putting on the right bands and actually promoting I think, but certainly on the punk/Oi scene people would travel fair distances to see bands. I recall a gig in Wigan last year, the first 5 people I spoke to had come from Germany for the gig.

Original music has been my focus for the last few years, mainly experimental or electronic music. Some events are better attended than others, some are extremely well attended though, with audiences travelling quite a distance.

 

[ambient]

52 minutes ago, Jonesy said:

I think social distancing rules will still apply at first, but maybe they'll be lifted in stages? Eg - we might be looking at something like stadium or arena events coming back in late 2021, events up to 3000 capacity early 2021, 1000 or less in late 2020 and 500 or less at the end of the summer? 

If (and its an optimistic if) something like that happens then maybe we'll see local music pick back up. That's my hope anyway as I'm itching to see bands again and if there's double figures in a crowd where I'm playing I'm happy! 😂

The govt will want to get the economy up and running as soon as possible which means (in bigger cities at least) getting public transport up and running. The idea of social distancing on public transport is a non starter so you'd think they'll relax the current rules for events of a certain size? 

They’re talking about having more frequent services I think, with strict limits on the number of passengers, and they’ll probably have to wear masks. I’ve read also that people will be encouraged to continue to work from home, at least where they can. Universities for instance will be running their courses online until at least next year. I don’t think that’s a bad thing tbh. Hundreds of thousands of people spend hours a week travelling to and from work, doing a job they’re quite capable of doing from home. My one sister-in-law works for Lloyds bank from home, that’s the way she’s always done it. There’s a lady I know moved to Turkey two years ago, but continued working for the company based a mile from me, again working online.

From what I’m hearing from people who are promoters, and those who organise events, they’re writing off this year totally. It would be nice to think I’m wrong, but you’re maybe a little optimistic about gigs starting again this year.

[Woodinblack]

34 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Not necessarily, having played originals for the last 6 years most of the gigs we were doing had good audiences. Mainly down to good promoters putting on the right bands and actually promoting I think, but certainly on the punk/Oi scene people would travel fair distances to see bands.

Yeh, maybe it is there for that sort of music. We have a local venue that does that, it was doing ok before the lockdown, although not like the sort of audience you get for a decent covers band.

19 minutes ago, ambient said:

It would be nice to think that now people have discovered there’s more to life than endlessly buying tat that they don’t need, and the simple pleasure in a walk in the park, or sitting reading a book, whilst listening to music?

It would be nice to think that. But as soon as this goes back if it does, I don't think that is going to be one of the lasting effects.

[chris_b]

45 minutes ago, Bassfinger said:

Would they rather people died instead? 

How about talking more and ranting less. Hm?

And maybe stick to the point of the posts you attack rather than immediately veering off into the bushes.

[Woodinblack]

21 minutes ago, ambient said:

Original music has been my focus for the last few years, mainly experimental or electronic music. Some events are better attended than others, some are extremely well attended though, with audiences travelling quite a distance.

We don't have anything like that around here. I would go and see it.

We have quite a reasonable sized originals scene, although having formed into a collective it is a bit cliquey (no way of avoiding that), but it is largely guitarist/piano singer songwriters doing angsty stinky poo, punk/oi stuff or rock. Nothing that I would want to go and see. There is a guy who is a great guitarist, but that is just instrumental so although it is clever and very good, in the same way as Satriani, I can admire the skill without it really speaking to me.

But all of this is very nice and all, but there isn't room in a town for more than one or two venues doing original music, which means the other venues would probably stop doing it. With fewer venues, there are going to be fewer oportunities. 

 

[ambient]

51 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

We don't have anything like that around here. I would go and see it.

We have quite a reasonable sized originals scene, although having formed into a collective it is a bit cliquey (no way of avoiding that), but it is largely guitarist/piano singer songwriters doing angsty stinky poo, punk/oi stuff or rock. Nothing that I would want to go and see. There is a guy who is a great guitarist, but that is just instrumental so although it is clever and very good, in the same way as Satriani, I can admire the skill without it really speaking to me.

But all of this is very nice and all, but there isn't room in a town for more than one or two venues doing original music, which means the other venues would probably stop doing it. With fewer venues, there are going to be fewer oportunities. 

 

That’s kind of my point about online streaming events; I probably didn’t express it well. People do seem to have embraced them, they can watch something without having to leave their living room. My department at my university was meant to have had its main event of the calendar last week. It was obviously cancelled, so we organised a mini streamed one. It was done quickly, and listeners were without the huge array of speakers that form a real event, so stereo only. It went down really well though.

There’s a guy I know who owns an instrument and equipment distribution company. He posted a link to the same report a few days ago. One of the replies was from a guy who I’ve never met him, but I know his name, he’s quite a well known music writer and journalist. It was his reply that got me thinking about this. He’s of the opinion that opportunities will still be there for bands and artists, they’ll need to adapt to whatever the new normal is though, at the same time, audiences will also need to adapt.

There’s a very strong possibility that social distancing is going to be with us for quite a while to come, so whichever part of the whole musicking thing you’re from, you need to accept that what was there before, possibly won’t be back for quite a while to come. It’s probably therefore a good idea to start thinking, well how are we going to carry on doing what we do? Then look at ways that technology will help us, rather than guessing at dates when various things might be relaxed.

Edited May 9, 2020 by ambient

[Woodinblack]

41 minutes ago, ambient said:

That’s kind of my point about online streaming events; I probably didn’t express it well. People do seem to have embraced them, they can watch something without having to leave their living room. My department at my university was meant to have had its main event of the calendar last week. It was obviously cancelled, so we organised a mini streamed one. It was done quickly, and listeners were without the huge array of speakers that form a real event, so stereo only. It went down really well though.

Indeed - streaming is good, its just making money from them I am not sure I can see.

I mean my favourite artists I could pay a few quid to go and see them live, but if I want to see them on the computer I can just go and watch on youtube.

Maybe I suppose if they start removing that content.

 

41 minutes ago, ambient said:

He’s of the opinion that opportunities will still be there for bands and artists, they’ll need to adapt to whatever the new normal is though, at the same time, audiences will also need to adapt.

I agree with that, but music used to cost a lot of money, so then it went to streaming, and now you have to stream several million runs of your single to get enough for a sandwich. Its a commodity and it has got really cheap. I am not sure that it is going to be possible for a group to get a load of people to pay enough money to make streaming that profitable.

And yes, there are limits which matter for different types of music, some of it is purely the event.

41 minutes ago, ambient said:

There’s a very strong possibility that social distancing is going to be with us for quite a while to come, so whichever part of the whole musicking thing you’re from, you need to accept that what was there before, possibly won’t be back for quite a while to come. It’s probably therefore a good idea to start thinking, well how are we going to carry on doing what we do? Then look at ways that technology will help us, rather than guessing at dates when various things might be relaxed.

Yeh, well I am just in a cover band, I don't really see that there is an option for that in a digital way. I mean we aren't even that good, but we are a good party band. That isn't (and can't) translate well into an online form, so maybe it is time for me to accept that was fun while it lasted and now it is over, and if I am lucky maybe it will come back.

 

[Lozz196]

4 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Indeed - streaming is good, its just making money from them I am not sure I can see.

I mean my favourite artists I could pay a few quid to go and see them live, but if I want to see them on the computer I can just go and watch on youtube.

[Lozz196]

Maybe with streaming bands with merch will get more online sales? I know that when the lockdown started my old band introduced a new style of shirt and sold them all pretty quickly. If a band already has a fan base then even if they don’t get any direct payment merch sales will be welcome, plus people then still get to see bands that they like. 

[ambient]

22 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Maybe with streaming bands with merch will get more online sales? I know that when the lockdown started my old band introduced a new style of shirt and sold them all pretty quickly. If a band already has a fan base then even if they don’t get any direct payment merch sales will be welcome, plus people then still get to see bands that they like. 

That’s it, you’re visible to people who might not have otherwise seen you. People can send a link to the stream. You can set up a watch party too. You can also put up links to Bandcamp etc.

[ambient]

They’ve just said in today’s briefing, that public transport will only have one-tenth of the capacity as normal, owing to having to maintain social distancing for the foreseeable future. People will be encouraged to walk or cycle. I can’t see them having a strict limit for passengers, then allowing pubs and clubs to function normally, it’d be rather pointless.

[Jonesy]

4 hours ago, ambient said:

They’re talking about having more frequent services I think, with strict limits on the number of passengers, and they’ll probably have to wear masks. I’ve read also that people will be encouraged to continue to work from home, at least where they can. Universities for instance will be running their courses online until at least next year. I don’t think that’s a bad thing tbh. Hundreds of thousands of people spend hours a week travelling to and from work, doing a job they’re quite capable of doing from home. My one sister-in-law works for Lloyds bank from home, that’s the way she’s always done it. There’s a lady I know moved to Turkey two years ago, but continued working for the company based a mile from me, again working online.

From what I’m hearing from people who are promoters, and those who organise events, they’re writing off this year totally. It would be nice to think I’m wrong, but you’re maybe a little optimistic about gigs starting again this year.

Oh, 100% I'm being optimistic and talking about a best case scenario here! If restrictions get lifted in phases though it makes sense for events at smaller venues to be allowed before larger arenas. I've seen a few bands release tour info for Nov/Dec and they're playing at smaller venues than they usually would, so hopefully it's a positive sign. 

I think you're right in that this will see a change to the way people work too and we'll see more remote working/meetings. However, social distancing on transport will still be an issue even if there are less people travelling. There are bus routes and underground journeys in parts of London now that are still packed despite the lock down

[Ricky 4000]

This is the kind of thing that occurred to me earlier...

Busking it!

Edited May 9, 2020 by Ricky 4000

[Phil Starr]

This too will pass

This disease won't last forever. Eventually the govt. will sort out testing and new infections will fall to single or maybe double figures per day. Medical treatments will improve and almost certainly a vaccine will be found. The only question is how quickly they will get the infection rate down and how many people will be killed by government inaction and social irresponsibility.

I really feel for those who depend upon music for their living. Two of my band mates are in that position. In a couple of years this is going to look very different. China, New Zealand and South Korea have shown what can be done. It should be easier in an island state with a well educated population but we don't have much competence at the top with our populist leaders.

Most of the pubs will reopen, and the other venues. People will want to party for a while and for a few they will have a new interest in live music and a social life. The new normal will be very much like the old normal, for a while we might even value each other a little more but day to day it will only be medical practices that change.

All we can really do is wait, hone our music and support measures to bring down the infection rate. The quicker the better so the more action the better for me.

[Barking Spiders]

2 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

This too will pass

This disease won't last forever. Eventually the govt. will sort out testing and new infections will fall to single or maybe double figures per day. Medical treatments will improve and almost certainly a vaccine will be found. The only question is how quickly they will get the infection rate down and how many people will be killed by government inaction and social irresponsibility.

Most of the pubs will reopen, and the other venues. People will want to party for a while and for a few they will have a new interest in live music and a social life. The new normal will be very much like the old normal, for a while we might even value each other a little more but day to day it will only be medical practices that change.

All we can really do is wait, hone our music and support measures to bring down the infection rate. The quicker the better so the more action the better for me.

Actually, covid will last forever, just as viruses have from previous pandemics. As with the flu pandemics of 1957-58 (Asian), 1967-68 and 1969/70 (Hong Kong) and 2009 (swine) , covid should attenuate and become part of the 'season'. On the other hand it isn't an influenzavirus and may constantly keep mutating and so it'll become impossible to find a vaccine, as is the case with the common cold. Scientists in China have discovered over 30 different strains of covid-19!  Pandemics last a long time. The Spanish flu lasted 36 months. The Asian flu (est 2 million deaths) lasted about 2 years and the Hong Kong one (about 1 million worldwide) subsided in 1968 only to return a year later.  Seems to me too many people still think this is 'just a flu virus' , strangely unaware that even a 'normal' flu epidemic is a major killer of the elderly and those with compromised immune systems.

[BigRedX]

IME the popularity of a band has very little to do with whether they play covers or originals and a lot to do with how entertaining they are.

In this respect covers bands should have a head start as they have a vast selection of crowd-pleasing songs available to them, but in actual fact lots of covers bands make poor set choices and then stand in the stage area in jeans and t-shirts taking up valuable drinking space in the pub while delivering little in terms of entertainment that couldn't be bettered by a well chosen iTunes playlist being broadcast over the venue speaker system.

As a punter, I find nothing important about live music per se so, if I'm going to pub with live music on, then I want some visual entertainment to go with the sounds.

[ambient]

36 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

IME the popularity of a band has very little to do with whether they play covers or originals and a lot to do with how entertaining they are.

In this respect covers bands should have a head start as they have a vast selection of crowd-pleasing songs available to them, but in actual fact lots of covers bands make poor set choices and then stand in the stage area in jeans and t-shirts taking up valuable drinking space in the pub while delivering little in terms of entertainment that couldn't be bettered by a well chosen iTunes playlist being broadcast over the venue speaker system.

As a punter, I find nothing important about live music per se so, if I'm going to pub with live music on, then I want some visual entertainment to go with the sounds.

I have to agree with you. I tend to only go to places that have original artists playing, there’s invariably a good attendance. 
 

One thing you’ve said though should be of particular concern to covers bands/pub bands. They do tend to take up a lot of room. Everything I’m reading points to social distancing being with us for some considerable time to come, so the last thing the owner would surely want is a band taking up valuable floor space. 

[louisthebass]

My feeling is that when (or if) things get back to whatever the "new normal" will be, a lot of bands might be playing for next to nothing in the pubs / clubs for a very long time. The pub industry will have been hit very hard by this, and it will take a long time to recover from the financial hardship this will have caused.

Another thing is that if some of those pubs have had to close, then that will mean fewer venues for bands to play in. There will be a huge scrap over that...

[ambient]

 

20 minutes ago, louisthebass said:

My feeling is that when (or if) things get back to whatever the "new normal" will be, a lot of bands might be playing for next to nothing in the pubs / clubs for a very long time. The pub industry will have been hit very hard by this, and it will take a long time to recover from the financial hardship this will have caused.

Another thing is that if some of those pubs have had to close, then that will mean fewer venues for bands to play in. There will be a huge scrap over that...

Given that social distancing will be with us for the foreseeable future, how many pubs will even bother booking bands, given that they’ll require the space for customers spending money.

[ClassicVibes]

23 minutes ago, louisthebass said:

My feeling is that when (or if) things get back to whatever the "new normal" will be, a lot of bands might be playing for next to nothing in the pubs / clubs for a very long time.

This has already been happening for years, mate. 

[louisthebass]

2 minutes ago, ambient said:

 

Given that social distancing will be with us for the foreseeable future, how many pubs will even bother booking bands, given that they’ll require the space for customers spending money.

That could well be the case. I'm not expecting to do another gig this side of Christmas / New Year - I'm planning (and keeping my fingers crossed) for sometime next year.

[ambient]

3 minutes ago, louisthebass said:

That could well be the case. I'm not expecting to do another gig this side of Christmas / New Year - I'm planning (and keeping my fingers crossed) for sometime next year.

I think that’s wise. It’s a sad situation, but it’s out of everyone’s hands, and people’s health comes first.

[ClassicVibes]

2 minutes ago, ambient said:

I think that’s wise. It’s a sad situation, but it’s out of everyone’s hands, and people’s health comes first.

No it doesn't - get back to work!

[Maude]

The worrying thing is the only reason a pub pays for a band is to pull the punters in. Why pay a band to attract punters if the pub can't let them in due to social distancing. 

It's sad but as long as social distancing is a thing, I don't think there'll be a pub band circuit to play. 

I really hope I'm wrong but I just can't see how it could work.