The Most Versatile Bass

[barlemniscate]

So I'm looking for a way to make my main bass "do it all."

The three main systems I have found are

• Sims Bass Pickups 
• Roland Midi Pickup with Synth
• Peavey T40
• Line 6 Variax

I already made a thread on the Variax, but I figured I'd just do one big one.

So which one is the most versatile and which the most accurate?

[therealting]

I think it’s going to difficult to get one bass that does it all convincingly well enough to fool a dedicated player of each type of instrument. I guess the closest you could get would be theoretically have pickup coils selectable at each of the different 70s and 60s Jazz Bridge pickups, Musicman single and double pickup instruments, single and split coils P bass, J neck, EB neck etc... then you need the different pot values to associate it with the different types of pickup, and the different types of preamp for the different active sounds.

Most of us just get several, or get a couple that do the key sounds well enough.

[itu]

https://industrialradio.com.au/

[ped]

The Roland system isn't MIDI (thank god) and I think it's the best thing out there now. I've been using it for so long now that I've got perfect* additional sounds of a Jazz, P, MM, and a whole lot besides all on my main bass. In the mix, and even solid at home when practicing, I'm more than happy with them when A/Bing against the instruments themselves which I have since sold, most of them the best examples of their breeds. But then it does take a lot of know how and a steep learning curve, but once set it's purely plug and play. By the way you can even move virtual pickups around and 'design your own' bass, so anything is possible.

[Maude]

As I said on the other thread, I love my Variax, but I look at it as a bass with a huge array of tones available at the turn of a knob, whether they sound exactly like the modelled basses matters not to me. I also like how the note length changes with settings. One minute it's bright, clangy, aggressive with lots of sustain, then it's warm, thick and muted with no sustain without having to mess with pickup selector, tone, foam mutes, etc. In a varied cover band setting it's great. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Maude

[LeftyJ]

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, Maude said:

As I said on the other thread, I love my Variax, but I look at it as a bass with a huge array of tones available at the turn of a knob, whether they sound exactly like the modelled basses matters not to me. I also like how the note length changes with settings. One minute it's bright, clangy, aggressive with lots of sustain, then it's warm, thick and muted with no sustain without having to mess with pickup selector, tone, foam mutes, etc. In a varied cover band setting it's great. 

Very much this!

I've said the same about amp and cab sims. I really don't care if they are perfect reproductions of "the real thing". I'm much more interested in the versatility and range of tones available and the fact that they are all instantly and accurately recallable at the touch of a switch/button. 

After all there is no bass/amp/speaker combination that sounds perfect without some fiddling with the pickup balance, EQ and gain structure.

[barlemniscate]

12 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Very much this!

I've said the same about amp and cab sims. I really don't care if they are perfect reproductions of "the real thing". I'm much more interested in the versatility and range of tones available and the fact that they are all instantly and accurately recallable at the touch of a switch/button. 

After all there is no bass/amp/speaker combination that sounds perfect without some fiddling with the pickup balance, EQ and gain structure.

That's fine and all, I'm just worried about it sounding like a MIDI bass and not a real one - in that respect it's probably between the T40 and Sims, I assume. 

[Maude]

4 minutes ago, barlemniscate said:

That's fine and all, I'm just worried about it sounding like a MIDI bass and not a real one - in that respect it's probably between the T40 and Sims, I assume. 

I can only speak for the Variax as it's the only one of the four I own. It sounds like a completely normal bass on 90% of the models. The only ones that can get glitchy are the ones that use an octaver and the synths. But this can be the case with some similar pedals. The two that use an octaver are the 8 and 12 strings, the 12 is worse that the 8 and it's trying to add a third octave 2 above the normal bass. It's actually fine but if you play Jeremy by Pearl Jam (it's the law on a 12 string) then it gets glitchy when doing the intro harmonics. I can forgive it as it's trying to play 3 octaves of a harmonic simultaneously. The 8 string is fine. 

The synths have to be played really cleanly as they get confused by multiple notes, again a lot of pedals have this issue. 

All the other normal basses sound like normal basses as it's really just very clever eq'ing that's getting the tone. 

I run mine through an X3 Live and can change amp, cab, bass (including tone settings) and effects chain by stepping on one switch. 

[LukeFRC]

How versatile do you need? 
and if you are going for a known sound, how close does it need to be?

a couple of years back I scratched an itch and built myself a versatile bass, two pickups, one in MM spot, the other kinda as close to the p spot, series/single/paralell on each pup, loads of switching options for blend and then a 2 band MM preamp... it was great and could do most things... 

but versatility got in the way for simplicity of playing for me. 
I would probably tend more towards having at least two basses, or if you don’t need super accurate something like the Lakland 55-94 I’ve got gets in the ballpark of a fair few sounds and weighs a lot less than the T40 I used to have

[OliverBlackman]

It’s all in the fingers! A Fender P bass is versatile enough. What you really need is a glove that lets you have other musicians fingers. Ie you can switch from Jaco to Entwhistle, Geddy Lee to Marcus Miller. Come to think of it, why does Scott Devine wear gloves 🧐

[BigRedX]

10 hours ago, barlemniscate said:

That's fine and all, I'm just worried about it sounding like a MIDI bass and not a real one - in that respect it's probably between the T40 and Sims, I assume. 

My understanding is the the Roland modelling system works by processing the audio from the individual strings rather than converting the pitches to drive VCOs/DCOs (which is always a problem on basses due the conversion time being a minimum of 1.5 cycles of the fundamental note) and therefore can sound as synthetic (or not) as you want.

I think another problem is that these systems tend to get evaluated just by being played solo, instead of seeing how valuable the sound adjustments are in getting the right sound in the overall context of the band/arrangement/production. Have a listen to some isolated bass tracks on YouTube and hear just how different (and often how horrible) the bass sounds on its own, compared to how well that sound works in the overall song mix.

Edited May 13, 2020 by BigRedX

[barlemniscate]

17 hours ago, Maude said:

I can only speak for the Variax as it's the only one of the four I own. It sounds like a completely normal bass on 90% of the models. The only ones that can get glitchy are the ones that use an octaver and the synths. But this can be the case with some similar pedals. The two that use an octaver are the 8 and 12 strings, the 12 is worse that the 8 and it's trying to add a third octave 2 above the normal bass. It's actually fine but if you play Jeremy by Pearl Jam (it's the law on a 12 string) then it gets glitchy when doing the intro harmonics. I can forgive it as it's trying to play 3 octaves of a harmonic simultaneously. The 8 string is fine. 

The synths have to be played really cleanly as they get confused by multiple notes, again a lot of pedals have this issue. 

All the other normal basses sound like normal basses as it's really just very clever eq'ing that's getting the tone. 

I run mine through an X3 Live and can change amp, cab, bass (including tone settings) and effects chain by stepping on one switch. 

In the first video I watched (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgq9hlJysj8), it sounded great. The second video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjnoQXDOGH0) made it sound artificial. I want it to sound like a real bass, which is why I'm mostly on the fence between Sims and the T40.

 

8 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

How versatile do you need? 
and if you are going for a known sound, how close does it need to be?

a couple of years back I scratched an itch and built myself a versatile bass, two pickups, one in MM spot, the other kinda as close to the p spot, series/single/paralell on each pup, loads of switching options for blend and then a 2 band MM preamp... it was great and could do most things... 

but versatility got in the way for simplicity of playing for me. 
I would probably tend more towards having at least two basses, or if you don’t need super accurate something like the Lakland 55-94 I’ve got gets in the ballpark of a fair few sounds and weighs a lot less than the T40 I used to have

I'd really like to be able to get the J, the P, and the Ray sound in one house, and I'd like it to be as close as possible.

Versatility is more important than simplicity for me.

[LukeFRC]

2 minutes ago, barlemniscate said:

I'd really like to be able to get the J, the P, and the Ray sound in one house, and I'd like it to be as close as possible.

If it helps you.... you can't without modelling like the Verix thing...

Much of the sound is down to the pickup placement.... 

There's not space to put a P and a MM on the same body. The MM and the back pup of a Jazz also clash.
Delano hybrid system is designed to do Jazz and MM sounds (look at Clover basses) ... but the MM pickup will be in the right place for a jazz tone, or a right place for a MM tone. 
My 55-94 gets kinda close ish... but it's precision, MM and jazz ballpark more than anything else... the preamp also makes a difference. Live it might get close enough to a P tone to get away with it, but not recording. 

[TheGreek]

On 11/05/2020 at 22:03, barlemniscate said:

So I'm looking for a way to make my main bass "do it all."

Talk like that will get you thrown off this forum...have you not read about GAS??? 😉

I can't speak for any of the other systems but I find the SimS pick ups in my Custom build very versatile. Whether anybody else notices is a completely different matter. At many Bass Bashes even the owners have trouble spotting their own basses.

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by TheGreek

[Maude]

I've just been watching a couple of vids on the T40. 

Whilst it's undoubtedly a very cool bass with a great array of tones, it's far too complicated for me. Tone controls that change from single coil to humbucking as you decrease them, volume controls that act as tone filters, etc. At home or in the studio it would be great but how would you replicate all those tones quickly between songs live? 

Also all the 'named brand' tones are only ballpark, as with the Variax, if you want it to sound exactly like the actual bass you're trying to mimick I suspect you'll need to buy the actual bass you're mimicking. 

I'll happily go digital just to be able to recall settings with a footswitch. 

The T40 is still a great bass though. 

[LukeFRC]

1 minute ago, Maude said:

At home or in the studio it would be great but how would you replicate all those tones quickly between songs live? 

I would be interested in how well something like the variax works live for bass... does the pa eq need to change for every song? 

[BigRedX]

If I was using a Variax, I'd be running it into one of Line6's multi-effects units that sports a Variax input so I could synchronise my Variax sounds with the appropriate EQ and effects.

[LukeFRC]

3 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

If I was using a Variax, I'd be running it into one of Line6's multi-effects units that sports a Variax input so I could synchronise my Variax sounds with the appropriate EQ and effects.

Thing is I think the bass is too old to talk to helix. So you’re on hd500

[BigRedX]

1 minute ago, LukeFRC said:

Thing is I think the bass is too old to talk to helix. So you’re on hd500

Is it? So what's the Variax socket on there for?

[Maude]

1 minute ago, BigRedX said:

If I was using a Variax, I'd be running it into one of Line6's multi-effects units that sports a Variax input so I could synchronise my Variax sounds with the appropriate EQ and effects.

Thats exactly how I use it. I use the X3 Live, it's a bit dated now but as far as I know none of the new breed of Line6 multi's have the Variax socket. 

I think for comparison on this thread it should be Roland midi system with synth and Variax bass with multi effects pedal. 

[Maude]

1 minute ago, BigRedX said:

Is it? So what's the Variax socket on there for?

Has the helix got a Variax socket then? 

I thought Line6 had moved away from the Variax, might have to look into it again. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Maude

[BigRedX]

1 minute ago, Maude said:

Has the helix got a Variax socket then? 

I've got the Helix floor, and it has what looks like a locking RJ45 socket labelled "Variax".

[Maude]

21 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I would be interested in how well something like the variax works live for bass... does the pa eq need to change for every song? 

I used mine exclusively live for years. No the the pa stayed the same but you do have to spend time editing patches to give a consistent volume output, and eg levels to a degree. No different to how you need to program any multi effect pedal. 

The Variax is really just an extention of a multi effects pedal. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Maude

[fretmeister]

21 minutes ago, Maude said:

Has the helix got a Variax socket then? 

I thought Line6 had moved away from the Variax, might have to look into it again. 

The helix will control the variax.

The new Shuriken Guitar has loads of demos and even a full album recorded by Twelve Foot Ninja.

Stevic from that band has loads of helix and variax shuriken vids on YouTube. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by fretmeister