Dumb question about Jazz basses

[Happy Jack]

I'm interested in the idea of getting my first J-bass so I thought it would be an idea to spend a bit of time playing around with one first.

I spent an hour in a good shop this afternoon playing a brand-new, reputable J-bass with "name" pickups through a decent rig. I was surprised at some of what I found but every time I asked the guy in the shop about controls / tone / action the answer he gave essentially boiled down to "They all do that, sir".

Hmmm.

Could I have a little help please?

Volume knobs: Both worked in the same way. The first eighth of a turn went from zero to audible, the next six eighths produced a small, steady increase in volume, the final eighth represented about 50% of the volume coming on-line in a rush. (Salesman: They're non-linear pots and that's what you'd expect. Most players leave the volume set to max at all times.) Is that how it should be?

Tone knob: Went from slightly-more trebly to slightly-more bassy and ... erm ... that's it, really. (Salesman: Yes, that's typical.) Is that right?

Both pickups full on: A rather undistinguished, dull tone that fell a long way short of setting my pulse racing. Given the way the volume knobs worked, a small tweak on either control produced quite a change in tone. (Salesman: Most people only use one pickup or the other, hardly ever blending them.)

Bridge pickup only: Sounded very tight and trebly, and a bit thin, when playing fingerstyle by the bridge, dull and muddy when playing fingerstyle by the neck.

Neck pickup only: Sounded like a rather weaker version of the pickups on my two P-basses (one has a Fralin, the other a Lakland own-brand). Definitely more punchy than either the bridge on its own or both pickups together.

I have to say that in terms of 'Wow' factor this was all a major disappointment. Is it me? Or this particular bass? Or all 'standard' J-basses?

[Low Down Dave]

Not knowing anything about the bass you played I can only generalise… but:

I would normally expect to see audio taper pots on a jazz bass, in fact I have never seen one that hasn’t got an audio taper, and blending the two volumes give you a vast pallet of sounds (and one of the reasons I love Jazz basses).

The tone knob on a passive basses acts as a treble cut.

Single coil pickups generally have less output than humbuckers, and therefore produce a thinner tone, although you can wire a jazz bass so its sounds like a P bass with a Parallel/series switch.

[Prosebass]

Finding a good "Jazz" is a bit of an Holy Grail quest. That "classic" Jazz tone can be hard to come by unless you want to part with serious money.
I have found it to be a problem that people expect the "Jazz" tone from a Squier or other reasonable make that resembles a Jazz but will sound nothing like one.
Even a lot of top end replicas don't have the classic tone because they have pickups on that color the tone.
As an example I recently built a Jazz replica but put some beefy chrome (EB0) humbuckers on it and it had a proper Jazz tone ?
I have tried building faithful replicas that failed abysmally , I had a Squier Jazz with a J-Retro fitted that sounded nothing like a Jazz ?
Best I have played was a US 74 model that was just right. Nearest I have come to the tone recently was with Kennyrodg's Spunky bass (£285.00) imported which I think is an outstanding bass.
Best bet is to play a few (bass bash ?) before you either write them off or buy one that turns out to be disappointing.

[henry norton]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='425398' date='Mar 4 2009, 07:28 PM']I'm interested in the idea of getting my first J-bass so I thought it would be an idea to spend a bit of time playing around with one first.

I spent an hour in a good shop this afternoon playing a brand-new, reputable J-bass with "name" pickups through a decent rig. I was surprised at some of what I found but every time I asked the guy in the shop about controls / tone / action the answer he gave essentially boiled down to "They all do that, sir".

Hmmm.

Could I have a little help please?

Volume knobs: Both worked in the same way. The first eighth of a turn went from zero to audible, the next six eighths produced a small, steady increase in volume, the final eighth represented about 50% of the volume coming on-line in a rush. (Salesman: They're non-linear pots and that's what you'd expect. Most players leave the volume set to max at all times.) Is that how it should be?

Tone knob: Went from slightly-more trebly to slightly-more bassy and ... erm ... that's it, really. (Salesman: Yes, that's typical.) Is that right?

Both pickups full on: A rather undistinguished, dull tone that fell a long way short of setting my pulse racing. Given the way the volume knobs worked, a small tweak on either control produced quite a change in tone. (Salesman: Most people only use one pickup or the other, hardly ever blending them.)

Bridge pickup only: Sounded very tight and trebly, and a bit thin, when playing fingerstyle by the bridge, dull and muddy when playing fingerstyle by the neck.

Neck pickup only: Sounded like a rather weaker version of the pickups on my two P-basses (one has a Fralin, the other a Lakland own-brand). Definitely more punchy than either the bridge on its own or both pickups together.

I have to say that in terms of 'Wow' factor this was all a major disappointment. Is it me? Or this particular bass? Or all 'standard' J-basses?[/quote]
Yeah, that sounds about right actually. I've owned 3 fairly decent Jazz basses and they all sounded as described. I think the thing people can forget is that it's just a passive two single coil pickup bass and it'll always sound a bit bland and thin coming from a Precision. There's a good range of sounds there but you won't go from say, a good slap sound to a growling rock sound to a clear jazzy solo type sound JUST using the volume and tone controls - Let's face it, there aren't that many basses you can do that with, (Alembic springs to mind). If you spend some time tweaking the bas and the amp you might just find some sounds you really like. I've always thought a Precision sounded like a Precision but a Jazz sounds much more like the person playing it.

As for that 'classic Jazz sound', do they mean Jaco Pastorius, Larry Graham, Noel Redding, Marcus Miller?

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='henry norton' post='425480' date='Mar 4 2009, 08:02 PM']I've always thought a Precision sounded like a Precision but a Jazz sounds much more like the person playing it.[/quote]

Now that's something I may find myself quoting ...

[PURPOLARIS]

I've always thought a Precision sounded like a Precision but a Jazz sounds much more like the person playing it.

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='425494' date='Mar 4 2009, 08:12 PM']Now that's something I may find myself quoting ...[/quote]

I happen to like the sound of my Jazz Bass :-))))

[6stringbassist]

It may be that you're just not a 'jazz bass person', I know I'm not. I've played a few and owned one that I've just sold, I just don't like them.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='425523' date='Mar 4 2009, 09:04 PM']It may be that you're just not a 'jazz bass person', I know I'm not. I've played a few and owned one that I've just sold, I just don't like them.[/quote]

And there's the problem in a nutshell.

An hour in a shop playing a brand new bass is hardly going to be conclusive one way or the other.

The responses above are enough to tell me that I was probably playing a pretty reasonable instrument and that the salesman was not a b/s merchant (not that I really thought he was anyway).

So my unimpressed status could be down to unfamiliarity and having to play unaccompanied in front of strangers, or it could be that I just won't get on with J-basses.

Hmmmm.

And again, hmmmm.

And thrice, hmmmm.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Happy Jack

[KennysFord]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='425445' date='Mar 4 2009, 07:19 PM']Nearest I have come to the tone recently was with Kennyrodg's Spunky bass (£285.00) imported which I think is an outstanding bass.[/quote]

I've kinda gone all red now, :blush: cheers Paul,that's a very nice compliment.
The more i play it the more it grows on me.

[pete.young]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='425494' date='Mar 4 2009, 08:12 PM']Now that's something I may find myself quoting ...[/quote]
I don't entirely buy that. Does Colin Hodgkinson sound like James Jamerson sound like Phil Lynott sound like Pino?

[lemmywinks]

I have had quite a few jazzes and i liked them all! I don't get on with Ps though...

Try a few Squiers, from the Standards up to the VM et al. I've got a Standard and it's the nuts! I can get four or five really good, different sounds out of it. Really good slap sound too. Try rolling a little off the bridge pickup with the tone just nudging 30%, that's my usual fingerstyle setting for 80% of our stuff.

Dunno what everyone else is on about RE not getting classic Jazz sounds, all mine have done the job apart from my Warmoth which is a totally different beasty

[Ballie]

Being a passive bass with single coil pickups, it hasn't got the most "in yo' face" tone. Try out some humbucker equipped active basses such as the Ibanez SR series, hope that appeals!

[hubrad]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='425531' date='Mar 4 2009, 09:20 PM']And there's the problem in a nutshell.

An hour in a shop playing a brand new bass is hardly going to be conclusive one way or the other.

The responses above are enough to tell me that I was probably playing a pretty reasonable instrument and that the salesman was not a b/s merchant (not that I really thought he was anyway).

So my unimpressed status could be down to unfamiliarity and having to play unaccompanied in front of strangers, or it could be that I just won't get on with J-basses.

Hmmmm.

And again, hmmmm.

And thrice, hmmmm.[/quote]
Hmmmm, indeed! The problem, in a nutshell, is personal taste. This is why so many players actually have so many basses.. no one bass gives every tone. I, personally, really like the tones on a Jazz type obtained by first turning both pups up full then backing either one off a tad. Not really found much place else. Then again The tone of a P-bass or Musicman or so many others is also not to be easily replicated without using that exact format. Wood choice makes a difference, strings make a difference. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad!
I generally prefer the one bass - make your sound with that - approach. However if you can cope with carrying a couple then work out in context (gigs or rehearsals - as you say an hour in a shop isn't conclusive) which bass makes just the right sound in your hands for which song.
Best of luck!

[Brother Jones]

[quote name='henry norton' post='425480' date='Mar 4 2009, 08:02 PM']There's a good range of sounds there but you won't go from say, a good slap sound to a growling rock sound to a clear jazzy solo type sound JUST using the volume and tone controls.[/quote]

Well...yes you will actually. From Marcus/Larry to, er, Adam Clayton, to Jaco. Jazzes can do it all. I love what my Precision does, but know that there's a helluva lot of variety in a Jazz, and I can get most of it without going near my amp, especially in terms of balancing the pickups.

There is quite a range of good and bad though between different Jazzes though, even from the same manufacturer. Perhaps the OP had a bad example, perhaps the amp he was playing through wasn't ideal.

[henry norton]

Ahhh, my turn to argue, yippee!

[quote name='pete.young' post='425546' date='Mar 4 2009, 10:36 PM']I don't entirely buy that. Does Colin Hodgkinson sound like James Jamerson sound like Phil Lynott sound like Pino?[/quote]

No but it's still easier to define a Precision tone than it is to define a Jazz tone, perhaps 'cos the Jazz simply has more of a range of sounds - cleaner sounds too. Anyway, you can't compare James Jamersons crusty tapewound strings played fingerstyle to Phil Lynotts roundwounds with a pick.

[quote name='Brother Jones' post='425687' date='Mar 5 2009, 02:05 AM']Well...yes you will actually. From Marcus/Larry to, er, Adam Clayton, to Jaco. Jazzes can do it all. I love what my Precision does, but know that there's a helluva lot of variety in a Jazz, and I can get most of it without going near my amp, especially in terms of balancing the pickups.[/quote]

I thought Adam Clayton played a P....? That asides, I agree than a J can just about 'do it all', but if you're looking for that 'perfect tone' - and let's face it, that's most of us - you need more than two volumes and a passive tone to get it just right.

[Low Down Dave]

[quote name='henry norton' post='425872' date='Mar 5 2009, 10:31 AM']I thought Adam Clayton played a P....? That asides, I agree than a J can just about 'do it all', but if you're looking for that 'perfect tone' - and let's face it, that's most of us - you need more than two volumes and a passive tone to get it just right.[/quote]

With that perfect tone the bass is only part of the equation even excluding the player (which is a vast part of the sound) you still have external EQ, Amplification, Speakers & Effects. Personally I like to start off with a good passive tone and build from there.

[Brother Jones]

[quote name='henry norton' post='425872' date='Mar 5 2009, 10:31 AM']Ahhh, my turn to argue, yippee!



No but it's still easier to define a Precision tone than it is to define a Jazz tone, perhaps 'cos the Jazz simply has more of a range of sounds - cleaner sounds too. Anyway, you can't compare James Jamersons crusty tapewound strings played fingerstyle to Phil Lynotts roundwounds with a pick.



I thought Adam Clayton played a P....? That asides, I agree than a J can just about 'do it all', but if you're looking for that 'perfect tone' - and let's face it, that's most of us - you need more than two volumes and a passive tone to get it just right.[/quote]

I'm no Clayton expert, but he looks to me to be playing a Lakland Joe Osborne most of the time these days, which is very much a J...

As Dave says it's about much more than the bass (mainly the player IMO). There is absolutely no point in a 'Prevision vs Jazz' thing here - they're both lovely. My point is that while the Jazz doesn't have the Precision's character of tone in some ways, it makes up for that with versatility. I don't understand your point that a Jazz is incapable of doing it all. No bass is, but a Jazz is a better place to start than some.