Spector TonePump

[krispn]

So was the eq busted or just not set up correctly for the bass?

[Al Krow]

5 minutes ago, krispn said:

So was the eq busted or just not set up correctly for the bass?

The bass, treble and mids are definitely not working right. But it's now got a more usable sound than I had feared, although I need to sort out the fret buzz next.

Interestingly a couple of other Carvin BB owners have replaced their EQs as they felt they had become tired and that seemed to be a very positive move for them. Leaning towards an Aggie OBP-3, which I guess is on-topic of sorts to this thread, given that Korg now own both Aguilar and Spector! Glock 3 band has its fans too from several comments, but is apparently a little subtle, whereas I appreciate having a broad tonal sweep at my finger tips, so the Aggie is probably more suited to what I'm after. I can play it as a quasi passive bass / in passive mode in the meantime.

[krispn]

I suppose there are a few questions before  deciding which eq. Sweepable mids or switchable  between two or three frequencies? Do you often switch mids about on your current gigging bass or do you settle on one setting? Aguilar make nice eqs but as I mentioned before the Fender norm of 40Hz on the lows and 4k on the high is kinda what the Aguilar is set at with the mids sweepable. If the lows at 40 aren’t your preference then there’s other more suitable options such as rhe uni pre etc.

Bass direct have a good selection which I’m sure you’ve checked out but with what you’ve said previously about eq preferences I’d be looking at some other options before the Aguilar namely the East Uni or tone capsule specifically for the lows being a bit more useful. 
 

Edited March 12, 2021 by krispn

[Al Krow]

Yeah the East stuff definitely has a great rep and I should probably not skimp the extra £50 or so it would cost. Not sure I need sweepable (just sensible usable mids), but 40 Hz cut / boost is a bit "boomy-end" territory for the bass EQ. Maybe no bad thing in that it's not often that you need to boost the bass (unless you're in a dub / reggae outfit with a sub woofer on tap), but being able to cut at 40 Hz would still be useful. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Al Krow

[krispn]

Thing is if your amp is already giving you control over 40Hz with the bass tone pot (or something thing pretty close) having that flexiblity of another less “boomy end“ related EQ point say at 70hz or 80hz onboard the bass would be more sensible or certainly give you another option to cut some ‘boomy end’ and still give some poke or punch down in that region (while still creating a nice space for the kick but that’s into studio/recording/mixing levels of geekdom). Fitting an on board EQ which covers 2/3 of what you amp is basically doing seems less useful. The example I’ve used recently - my Fender amp - its 40-400-4k. If I were fitting an on board EQ I’d be actively looking for additional flexibility not mimicking what’s already available on my amp so an Aguilar would be off the radar as it’s only really offering one different option (plus my amp has a semi para mid too so I can tweak the basic BMT further anyways). It’d be like buying a DG AO pedal and setting the drive up on it exactly the same as the drive setting on your amp DGAO amp 

You’ve talked a lot about eq over the years and I think this is you’re first refit of the electronics on a bass so why not be bold and give yourself the option you’ve been on about for quite some time😀

I think you discussed the East Unipre  or it has been on your radar too so no surprises with the features and flexibility it offers. If your never gonna gig the bass and it’s only gig home use then the logic would be have it set up to do something different and be that super flexible EQ - you’ll be well familiar with your home rig and how each bass sounds to notice what something like the Unipre offers - you’ll really be able to get into and the most out of it. If you’re gonna soup up a ‘bargain’ you might as well go for it! 

It’d be a teal wasted opportunity when so much has been said about eq points over the years that the default is go with what’s already available on the amp. Plus the AO amp’s graphic must have given you a few good ideas about what those EQ points do to the basic sound which would inform what an on board should bring. Again if your Gigi g amp already have a bunch of eq options it’s be good to work around those and have that added control for when it’s needed. 

[Al Krow]

All good points, cheers Gav. Having looked at the options again I think I may well end up with either the very well regarded Glock 3 band, which I'm coming back around to, and several BC'ers have already mentioned works well for them including @BassBunny who swapped in a Glock 3 band into his Carvin BB and said it works really well, which is obviously directly relevant to my bass and model. My take is that the Glock is pretty transparent and allows the tone of the rest of the bass, strings and pups to shine through. It's also around £125 + fitting so at the more affordable end. Or a more versatile East which would likely add a further £100 on top, for the reasons you set out very well above.

I'm going to get to know the bass a bit better first in terms of feel and play and can come back to putting in a pre-amp post lock down ending / gigs restarting. 

[Cuzzie]

24 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

All good points, cheers Gav. Having looked at the options again I think I may well end up with either the very well regarded Glock 3 band, which I'm coming back around to, and several BC'ers have already mentioned works well for them including @BassBunny who swapped in a Glock 3 band into his Carvin BB and said it works really well, which is obviously directly relevant to my bass and model. My take is that the Glock is pretty transparent and allows the tone of the rest of the bass, strings and pups to shine through. It's also around £125 + fitting so at the more affordable end. Or a more versatile East which would likely add a further £100 on top, for the reasons you set out very well above.

I'm going to get to know the bass a bit better first in terms of feel and play and can come back to putting in a pre-amp post lock down ending / gigs restarting. 

That’s spring time end of May then 👌🏾👍🏾🤘🏾

[Al Krow]

Indeed! 😁

[krispn]

I suppose from my perspective and this may well not be shared by many but I’ve always wanted my eq to offer options which aren’t available ‘behind me’ at the amp. I gigged a Markbass TTE head with a three band eq for ages. The head sounded good and was lightweight but for more flexible eq I used a Basswitch. This gave me the flexibility of need to get more option. 
 

If you’re still gigging the DG AO you’re already looking at a good 6 band eq with pretty much the same eq frequency points as the Glock (which I thought you disliked in the Sandberg) except the super high on the treble. If you go down the Bergantino BIAmp route then you’ll be looking a a programmable eq. 
 

If the Carvin will be a gigging bass is personally say get the EQ which offers you the best options in relation to your other gear so a Uni Pre may be a bit more expensive now but having all those option of selecting lows and highs make it much more future proof and also makes the bass more versatile. 
 

Plus you could fit the Uni pre yourself or have a mate who’s competent help you and save on the fee charged by a shop. Spend the money once by getting the right bit of kit - you were never that keen on the glock in your Sandberg and it’s not offering anything that different from your amp. The UniPre is a far more adaptable unit and it will allow you to further enhance what the natural voice of the bass is doing precisely because of its adaptability/flexibility.
 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by krispn

[Al Krow]

Agreed. However, your gigging amp may change and additional EQ options be had from pedals or something like a Berg BIAmp, and a temptation to fiddle about too much if too much flexibility, so there is also something to recommend relatively simple but capable. Definitely pros and cons to both approaches.

I particularly value two things on the bass EQ itself:

• A capable treble to dial right back for a Motown feel and boost a touch for slap zing (obviously not both at the same time!).
• Being able to boost the mids to cut through the mix

From knowing what I do about you from comments that have been shared over the years, you've got a better ear than most BC'ers I've come across in relation to EQ matters and I have no doubt will be getting a lot out of your East Pre - gotta be an excellent choice for you.

[krispn]

I’m not in the market as I continue to use my HXStomp for my additional eq needs. If I did go down the active eq path I’d be looking at a Uni pre (set and forget with the option to tweak the internal parameters should I fancy an afternoon tweaking) or a tone capsule based on what I like eq wise in relation to the sensible Bass Mid Mid eq points

Edited March 13, 2021 by krispn

[Al Krow]

Ah ok my bad: I had a recollection you already had or previously had an East in one of your basses?

[krispn]

I had been using a Basswitch preamp for many years (8+) so I had my additional tonal needs covered with that for a long time. Clean clear and dual semi para mid eq was a great help for additional tone tweaking but I’ve used other preamps too. 

[Al Krow]

Spector TonePump - sourcing:

Spotted this really useful post on another thread and am reposting it here so it's not lost! 

Need to add VAT & shipping on top.

20 hours ago, ForbiddenWytch said:

... you can get these new from Petr Michilak (the guy who makes these for Spector) for $91/£66 

https://michalik.cz/pricelist

BP-4 Bass preamp - $91

[peteb]

On 12/03/2021 at 22:14, Al Krow said:

Yeah the East stuff definitely has a great rep and I should probably not skimp the extra £50 or so it would cost. Not sure I need sweepable (just sensible usable mids), but 40 Hz cut / boost is a bit "boomy-end" territory for the bass EQ. Maybe no bad thing in that it's not often that you need to boost the bass (unless you're in a dub / reggae outfit with a sub woofer on tap), but being able to cut at 40 Hz would still be useful. 

 

On 13/03/2021 at 08:46, krispn said:

Thing is if your amp is already giving you control over 40Hz with the bass tone pot (or something thing pretty close) having that flexiblity of another less “boomy end“ related EQ point say at 70hz or 80hz onboard the bass would be more sensible

I used to have an East j-retro on a jazz bass a few years ago and although it is a nice sounding preamp, I certainly would not have another one (I have had this discussion with @LukeFRC, who I believe still has an East installed on his Lakland and really likes it). 

The problem is, as you have said, the bass control isn't set at a very usable frequency and has way too much boost. It s too easy to get a very boomy bottom end, not too mention it can feel like you are going to blow your speakers out if you are not careful. There are too many bad / unusable sounds in there and as @krispn has said, setting the bass EQ at something like 70hz would be much more useful. 

Actually, the sweepable mids control is pretty cool - you can tune it to find the 'sweet spot' for the room, which can come in handy for venues with strange acoustics. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by peteb

[krispn]

This months Bass frontiers or one of those online bass publications  oh I forget which one it is now has a review of the Uni preamp. 

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, peteb said:

 

I used to have an East j-retro on a jazz bass a few years ago and although it is a nice sounding preamp, I certainly would not have another one (I have had this discussion with @LukeFRC, who I believe still has an East installed on his Lakland and really likes it). 

The problem is, as you have said, the bass control isn't set at a very usable frequency and has way too much boost. It s too easy to get a very boomy bottom end, not too mention it can feel like you are going to blow your speakers out if you are not careful. There are too many bad / unusable sounds in there and as @krispn has said, setting the bass EQ at something like 70hz would be much more useful. 

Actually, the sweepable mids control is pretty cool - you can tune it to find the 'sweet spot' for the room, which can come in handy for venues with strange acoustics. 

I would agree with @peteb with his words of caution, I think it was lending a bass to someone who cranked the bass? 18db boost isn’t always what your amp and cabs want!

however... j-retro and uni pre are different... j retro by standard has a bit of a bass boost pre-shape baked in. Uni pre you can defeat this,
 

uni pre also has the ability to set thr upper and lower bounds of the bass boost... so you can set where this isn’t boosting 20-80hz from memory, and also set the top end. In my Lakland the bart pickups have quite a lot of low mids going on thst can sound very fat and muddy very quickly - so my bass boost is set up to boost everything below the gank and not the subs. 
I love it. But would agree with Pete B that it’s not for everyone. 

[LukeFRC]

Though I’ve read this thread and can’t work out who’s changing what and why? @Al Krow - you’ve got a tonelab in a carvin you don’t like but turned it up and you do like it, but still want to swap it??

[krispn]

For clarity I’m not putting a pre in my bass. I use a Basswitch or my Stomp. 

[peteb]

4 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I would agree with @peteb with his words of caution, I think it was lending a bass to someone who cranked the bass? 18db boost isn’t always what your amp and cabs want!

The thing I remember was a (very good) American bass player using my bass with the East pre (through my rig) at a jam session at a blues festival. He just did what he normally did with a Fender jazz and turned up the bass control to full without thinking about it and off he went. I was stood there cringing, thinking that he was going to blow my (fortunately very powerful) Berg cab out and waiting for him to finish a song so I could get to him and tell him to turn the f***ing bass control down before he; a) blew my cab out, and b) found the infamous 'brown' note and had half the audience desperately queuing for the venue's toilet facilities...! 

[Al Krow]

11 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Though I’ve read this thread and can’t work out who’s changing what and why? @Al Krow - you’ve got a tonelab in a carvin you don’t like but turned it up and you do like it, but still want to swap it??

Err not quite, but fair enough in terms of confusion!  The Carvin BB has a Carvin preamp that bore some similarities to a TonePump, but it's not (e.g. it's a 3 band for a start). I'd be fine with keeping it but it's fucked in terms of the 3 band EQ, so it's going to get replaced with a Glock EQ. That particularly journey on swapping out the Carvin pre for a Glock is reasonable well-trodden and been apparently done with some success.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

39 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Err not quite, but fair enough in terms of confusion!  The Carvin BB has a Carvin preamp that bore some similarities to a TonePump, but it's not (e.g. it's a 3 band for a start). I'd be fine with keeping it but it's fucked in terms of the 3 band EQ, so it's going to get replaced with a Glock EQ. That particularly journey on swapping out the Carvin pre for a Glock is reasonable well-trodden and been apparently done with some success.

How come potty mouth Krow gets no censorship 

[krispn]

The naughty filter must be flipped!

*no it’s still working. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by krispn

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I'd be fine with keeping it but it's f***** in terms of the 3 band EQ,

How on earth did you manage that? Can’t you just fix it?

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

How on earth did you manage that? Can’t you just fix it?

It's how it came when I bought it (it is a 15 y/o bass and wear & tear does happen, right?). But the seller kindly knocked the cost of a new Glock pre off his asking price, so it's been budgeted for.