Audient id14 or Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 gen 3?

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, sammybee said:

The clarett is a LOT more expensive than the Audient ID14 - street price of a Clarett is around £300 as opposed to £160-170 you can snag the Audient ID14 at present.

Be interested to hear if folk think the Claret is worth the extra? 

[Cuzzie]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

When home recording do folk often lay down more than two tracks at a time? I would have thought typically you kick off with the drums and then layer over the rest? 

Lay a shadow guitar part to a click.

Add drums to the same click Tempo so the correct parts can be accentuated.

Re-lay a guitar part.

Place a DI first in your chain and take a raw unprocessed signal out, then take a DI or unbalanced signal from the end of the chain.

The 2 bass parts will be exactly in tandem and you can re-amp, process then clean signal and blend with the other signal whatever effects you are using.

2 tracks per take this way

[sammybee]

5 hours ago, Al Krow said:

When home recording do folk often lay down more than two tracks at a time? I would have thought typically you kick off with the drums and then layer over the rest? I guess if you need two mic inputs you could do this with the Audient ID14 instead of the ID4.

It's very common if you're using a lot of outboard gear (synths). eg in my current setup, I have 1 drum machine (mono - but has individual outs), 1MPC (stereo out), 1 sampler (mono), 1 set of decks (stereo feed from disco mixer), 1 DI for guitar (mono), 1 DI for bass (mono), 1 SM57. My set up is quite streamlined, but that's 9 inputs for you right there. Could I survive with less? Possibly, but it would be a bit of a faff unplugging/patching everything & I would need a patchbay/external mixer & the spaghetti of wires that accompany them.

[Al Krow]

31 minutes ago, sammybee said:

It's very common if you're using a lot of outboard gear (synths). eg in my current setup, I have 1 drum machine (mono - but has individual outs), 1MPC (stereo out), 1 sampler (mono), 1 set of decks (stereo feed from disco mixer), 1 DI for guitar (mono), 1 DI for bass (mono), 1 SM57. My set up is quite streamlined, but that's 9 inputs for you right there. Could I survive with less? Possibly, but it would be a bit of a faff unplugging/patching everything & I would need a patchbay/external mixer & the spaghetti of wires that accompany them.

Gotcha. And hence the need for additional ADAT inputs on your ID14. 

[Thunderpaws]

I’ll be using the Adat feature for drum tracking with the band at some point too. Not a huge feature for me as we’ve always managed before with a portable multitrack  recording desk bit this might give more flexibility.  

[sammybee]

7 minutes ago, Thunderpaws said:

I’ll be using the Adat feature for drum tracking with the band at some point too. Not a huge feature for me as we’ve always managed before with a portable multitrack  recording desk bit this might give more flexibility.  

It's very easy to set up, get yourself a MOTU 8Pre (or similar) for around £150, plug in an optical cable to the Audient -> preamp. Hey presto another 8 inputs appear in your DAW. No other config needed.

[skidder652003]

Well I've just taken delivery of the ID4 and all I can say is wow, zero latency and amazing warmth through the Jfet DI, really solid construction, so far I'm really really impressed.

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, skidder652003 said:

Well I've just taken delivery of the ID4 and all I can say is wow, zero latency and amazing warmth through the Jfet DI, really solid construction, so far I'm really really impressed.

Sounds like a noticeable upgrade over your 2i2 Gen 1! Where, in particular, are you finding the differences? 

My 6i6 is also Gen 1 ...hmmm!

[skidder652003]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Sounds like a noticeable upgrade over your 2i2 Gen 1! Where, in particular, are you finding the differences? 

My 6i6 is also Gen 1 ...hmmm!

much less latency and a warmer sound but to be fair we're comparing something probably 10 years old to a brand new unit, I imagine the 3rd Gen 2i2 is a great piece of kit as well.

[Sibob]

2 minutes ago, skidder652003 said:

much less latency and a warmer sound but to be fair we're comparing something probably 10 years old to a brand new unit, I imagine the 3rd Gen 2i2 is a great piece of kit as well.

Just out of curiosity, would you not be after a transparent sound rather than a ‘warm’ sound when recording DI? Then process it to taste during mixing?

Latency is a lot to do (although not entirely) with the USB driver being utilised, our latest USB driver would improve Gen 1 latency, however as you mention, the Gen 3’s are a marked improvement in all specs over Gen 1’s. 
Also, zero (or ‘conversion-only’) latency is achievable with all interfaces assuming they have direct monitoring capability. Otherwise, your Computer spec, DAW choice, session size/heft, sample rate etc will also contribute to latency figures along with interface and it’s driver.

Si // Focusrite 

[skidder652003]

10 minutes ago, Sibob said:

Just out of curiosity, would you not be after a transparent sound rather than a ‘warm’ sound when recording DI? Then process it to taste during mixing?

Latency is a lot to do (although not entirely) with the USB driver being utilised, our latest USB driver would improve Gen 1 latency, however as you mention, the Gen 3’s are a marked improvement in all specs over Gen 1’s. 
Also, zero (or ‘conversion-only’) latency is achievable with all interfaces assuming they have direct monitoring capability. Otherwise, your Computer spec, DAW choice, session size/heft, sample rate etc will also contribute to latency figures along with interface and it’s driver.

Si // Focusrite 

Hi Si

TBH I'm quite enjoying the coloured aspect of the DI, there's deffo an added "something' there. The latency is a big improvement on my old 2i2, I'm at 512 samples and there's no noticeable lag even at full DAW mode rather than monitoring, something I struggled with my old 2i2, but again it's completely unfair to compare the like for like, an older model against a new. Quick mp3 sample using the DI straight in

bass sample audient ID4.mp3

[Bobthedog]

On 24/05/2020 at 14:52, Al Krow said:

Be interested to hear if folk think the Claret is worth the extra? 

Following the gradual deterioration of my three month old Scarlett 4i4, I vowed not to buy Focusrite again (I have had three of their Scarlett units). I have never been truly happy with the lack of volume and ease of which the gain blows out on my five string Bs (either connecting straight into the interface,  via a small mixing desk, via an MXR DI+ M80 and/or via the DI out on my amps). My Audio Technica mics have no issues. Frustration pushed me close to throwing much cash at a UA Apollo Twin but was mentally was struggling to put that much coin into an interface that was going to be used 75% just for music listening, 25% recording and an hour or so a week for Skype bass. I then thought MOTU M4 but that is not yet available and a couple of YT vids have brought up quality issues, so best wait for that to bed in. I also need something with inputs and preferably controls on the front. I also prefer separate phantom power for channels one and two. The solution that arrived today is the Clarett 2pre.

Re the 4i4, it still appears to work audio wise (it survived a Skype session yesterday) but the lights on the front are all coming on at once or in various disco formations, including blending light colours (who knew the gain lights could also show blue and white!) and sometimes no lights were being shown at all. Yesterday out of sheer frustration when Focusrite Control started to not work (possibly a mac issue) and I could not adjust anything due to the all electronic controls, I gave up and bought the Clarett.

I was not expecting much but the headroom, sound quality and clarity (forgive the pun) is streets ahead of my 4i4 and previous Gen 2 2i4. I have only been playing around with it for a couple of hours but there really is a mahoosive difference to my ears compared to the Scarlett. So far, very much yes to being worth the extra coin.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Bobthedog

[JapanAxe]

28 minutes ago, Bobthedog said:

Following the gradual deterioration of my three month old Scarlett 4i4, I vowed not to buy Focusrite again (I have had three of their Scarlett units). I have never been truly happy with the lack of volume and ease of which the gain blows out on my five string Bs (either connecting straight into the interface,  via a small mixing desk, via an MXR DI+ M80 and/or via the DI out on my amps). My Audio Technica mics have no issues. Frustration pushed me close to throwing much cash at a UA Apollo Twin but was mentally was struggling to put that much coin into an interface that was going to be used 75% just for music listening, 25% recording and an hour or so a week for Skype bass. I then thought MOTU M4 but that is not yet available and a couple of YT vids have brought up quality issues, so best wait for that to bed in. I also need something with inputs and preferably controls on the front. I also prefer separate phantom power for channels one and two. The solution that arrived today is the Clarett 2pre.

Re the 4i4, it still appears to work audio wise (it survived a Skype session yesterday) but the lights on the front are all coming on at once or in various disco formations, including blending light colours (who knew the gain lights could also show blue and white!) and sometimes no lights were being shown at all. Yesterday out of sheer frustration when Focusrite Control started to not work (possibly a mac issue) and I could not adjust anything due to the all electronic controls, I gave up and bought the Clarett.

I was not expecting much but the headroom, sound quality and clarity (forgive the pun) is streets ahead of my 4i4 and previous Gen 2 2i4. I have only been playing around with it for a couple of hours but there really is a mahoosive difference to my ears compared to the Scarlett. So far, very much yes to being worth the extra coin.

Interesting comment on the headroom - I got a Scarlett 6i6 last year and it was a real game changer in that at last I had plenty of headroom for direct recording bass without compressing the bejaysus out of it. Pleased to say I haven't had the disco lights experience...

[Sibob]

On 16/08/2020 at 17:26, Bobthedog said:

Following the gradual deterioration of my three month old Scarlett 4i4, I vowed not to buy Focusrite again (I have had three of their Scarlett units). I have never been truly happy with the lack of volume and ease of which the gain blows out on my five string Bs (either connecting straight into the interface,  via a small mixing desk, via an MXR DI+ M80 and/or via the DI out on my amps). My Audio Technica mics have no issues. Frustration pushed me close to throwing much cash at a UA Apollo Twin but was mentally was struggling to put that much coin into an interface that was going to be used 75% just for music listening, 25% recording and an hour or so a week for Skype bass. I then thought MOTU M4 but that is not yet available and a couple of YT vids have brought up quality issues, so best wait for that to bed in. I also need something with inputs and preferably controls on the front. I also prefer separate phantom power for channels one and two. The solution that arrived today is the Clarett 2pre.

Re the 4i4, it still appears to work audio wise (it survived a Skype session yesterday) but the lights on the front are all coming on at once or in various disco formations, including blending light colours (who knew the gain lights could also show blue and white!) and sometimes no lights were being shown at all. Yesterday out of sheer frustration when Focusrite Control started to not work (possibly a mac issue) and I could not adjust anything due to the all electronic controls, I gave up and bought the Clarett.

I was not expecting much but the headroom, sound quality and clarity (forgive the pun) is streets ahead of my 4i4 and previous Gen 2 2i4. I have only been playing around with it for a couple of hours but there really is a mahoosive difference to my ears compared to the Scarlett. So far, very much yes to being worth the extra coin.

This really doesn't sound like normal behaviour for a 4i4, certainly it's not something I've heard of before. If it is still under the 3 year warranty, I would contact the retailer you purchased from and have that swapped out.
For context, the nature of the various LED colours is simply because they are RGB LED's. By default they adhere to the Green/Amber/Red setup for signal (with red obviously be clipping), but it is possible to change these from within Focusrite Control, either for aesthetic purposes, or (as we designed it) for accessibility purposes (colour blindness etc).

Glad that you're getting on well with the Clarett, while the Scarlett's are excellent, the Clarett's are somewhat of a step-up when it comes to the audio-spec and some features.

Many thanks

Si // Focusrite 

[Richard R]

I have a Focusrite Scarlett gen1 8i2, which I bought 2nd hand eight years back and which must be about 10 years old. Works perfectly, records well, sounds fine. Gain bunching on the pots,  but a decade ago almost all the interfaces had that issue.

Last year I was trying to use it as an input source for conference calls but could not get it to work, so gave up on that particular activity.  Last month for some reason I looked at the Focusrite site and saw updated Win10 drivers for all the Scarlett range, including new functionality for 1st and 2nd Gen.

Installed at once and can now DI my bass straight into works conference calls 😄. More importantly the new drivers have slightly lowered the latency and definitely increased the flexibility for non DAW apps.

If that's typical of their software support for older products I will absolutely be buying their gear again.

 

[Sibob]

28 minutes ago, Richard R said:

I have a Focusrite Scarlett gen1 8i2, which I bought 2nd hand eight years back and which must be about 10 years old. Works perfectly, records well, sounds fine. Gain bunching on the pots,  but a decade ago almost all the interfaces had that issue.

Last year I was trying to use it as an input source for conference calls but could not get it to work, so gave up on that particular activity.  Last month for some reason I looked at the Focusrite site and saw updated Win10 drivers for all the Scarlett range, including new functionality for 1st and 2nd Gen.

Installed at once and can now DI my bass straight into works conference calls 😄. More importantly the new drivers have slightly lowered the latency and definitely increased the flexibility for non DAW apps.

If that's typical of their software support for older products I will absolutely be buying their gear again.

 

We certainly do try, where possible, to keep our older units as up-to-date as possible. Sometimes that's not possible past the standard 2 years of our product discontinuation policy (such as Saffire's, largely because Firewire is widely not supported anymore), but with our Scarlett generations (being USB), this is slightly easier.

Glad you've found some new love for your 18i20

All the best

Si // Focusrite

[Richard R]

Actually, now it is right in front of me, I can see it is an 8i6, not the (non existent) 8i2, or the (lovely but overkill for me) 8i20.

[wateroftyne]

Quick update... as mentioned earlier, I got the Audient EVO 4. However, despite it sounding fine, I just couldn't get over the cheap build quality and odd UI. It made it feel like a toy.

So, back to Focusrite, specifically a 3rd gen 2i2. It feels like a serious bit of kit, and sounds great.

 

[Thunderpaws]

Nice one. Glad you like it. 
 

loving my Audient for the most part. One very annoying trait though, if my PC goes to sleep I have to set up the drivers again....every time. Super annoying. Never happened with my Roland. 

[Al Krow]

For Audient lovers, these guys aren't resting on their laurels with the release of their Mk2 models of the iD4 and iD14 and they've kept prices pegged at the old Mk1 pricing.

[Al Krow]

@Sibob does Focusrite allow pitch to midi conversion for bass? I'm guessing it doesn't and that midi output on a Focusrite is only triggered by a midi enabled keyboard and I'll need something like a Sonnus G2M v3 for pitch to midi conversion? But I thought I'd check before forking out for a Sonnus.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Al Krow

[Dad3353]

I have a Sonuus i2M Musicport; it works very well, on bass or guitar. Just sayin'. 

[Al Krow]

10 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

I have a Sonuus i2M Musicport; it works very well, on bass or guitar. Just sayin'. 

Thanks Douglas - that's encouraging to hear (particularly as the feedback on the G2Mv3 / B2M I've had from others has been somewhat disappointing).

If I've understood correctly the Sonnus i2M provides additional recording interface capabilities to the G2M v3, but is otherwise the same tech? That could be useful to have, but my key immediate use is to be able to trigger a synth pedal e.g. the Moog Minitaur or Korg Volca FM with a bass rather than a keyboard. 

Does the i2M come with a USB --> 5 pin midi converter or would I need to buy that separately?

How are you using your i2M?

Also calling @stoo, @BigRedXand @Woodinblack as they're pretty knowledgeable about all this midi stuff! 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Al Krow

[Sibob]

9 hours ago, Al Krow said:

@Sibob does Focusrite allow pitch to midi conversion for bass? I'm guessing it doesn't and that midi is only triggered by a midi enabled keyboard and I'll need something like a Sonnus G2M v3 for pitch to midi conversion? But I thought I'd check before forking out for a Sonnus.

Scarlett’s don’t have that particular feature purely because it can be actioned by DAW’s, for example Ableton Live & Logic have a pitch-midi conversion features. So as long as you get audio into your computer (via a Scarlett or other interface), I believe it’s possible in some DAWs without a dongle like a Sonuus. 
I’ve not looked at the audio specs for the Sonuus, but if it’s important to you, compare them to things like a Scarlett or other dedicated converters. Simply because they’re small and cheap, and their primary use is audio-midi conversion, so their analogue to digital audio conversion might be on the lower quality side.
(Caveat: as mentioned, I’ve not compared them, so just an educated guess).

Si // Focusrite 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Sibob

[Al Krow]

Thanks Si - I'm actually looking to go straight into a synth pedal from a bass via midi (without a laptop in between), so I think from what you have said that rules out the Focusrite option, if that needs to be done via a DAW.