You can't hurry love

[missis sumner]

Is this song played very much behind the beat, or wot?

S'cuse my noob bass ears, but it just seems very... "relaxed", no?

[Dad3353]

The clue is in the title, maybe..? 

...

[ambient]

Check this video, Lee Sklar has played it hundreds of times with Phil Collins.

 

[wateroftyne]

3 hours ago, missis sumner said:

Is this song played very much behind the beat, or wot?

S'cuse my noob bass ears, but it just seems very... "relaxed", no?

Which version?

Phil's and the Supremes are very different in feel and note choice.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

3 hours ago, missis sumner said:

Is this song played very much behind the beat, or wot?

 

In all my years of playing music I've never grasped the concept of playing behind the beat. Or in front. I'm sure I've been doing it, or hearing it, but if I have it's been subconsciously.

[missis sumner]

10 hours ago, ambient said:

Check this video, Lee Sklar has played it hundreds of times with Phil Collins.

 

I've been watching a lot of his videos, recently.  Great stuff.

[missis sumner]

9 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

Which version?

Phil's and the Supremes are very different in feel and note choice.

I was actually playing along to the Supremes version, with Rocksmith 😳, for my sins (well, because I haven't figured out how the song goes yet ).

[yorks5stringer]

This may help

 

[missis sumner]

9 hours ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

In all my years of playing music I've never grasped the concept of playing behind the beat. Or in front. I'm sure I've been doing it, or hearing it, but if I have it's been subconsciously.

Push and pull - I'm sure I do it all the time, much to the consternation of my drummer! 😂  Not that I have a drummer anymore... 😕

[missis sumner]

9 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

This may help

 

I actually have the "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" book at home, but I'm locked-down in my mum's house.

It'll do me good to work it out by ear (with a little cheating, from above).

[Reggaebass]

This one sounds  like the most accurate to me, by our very own Constantine 🙂. 

 

[wateroftyne]

1 minute ago, Reggaebass said:

This one sounds  like the most accurate to me, by our very own Constantine 🙂. 

 

...for the Phil Collins version, maybe 🙂

John Giblin straightened the part right out.

[missis sumner]

It'll be different again, by the time I've learnt it...😂

[Mickeyboro]

My favourite is Andrew Bodnar on the 1976 Graham Parker and the Rumour live bootleg.. I play it at least once a week!

 

 

 

[Reggaebass]

I’ve only played it once after hearing it on the radio, it’s such a cool Bassline, definitely a great one to learn 🙂

[ubit]

13 hours ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

In all my years of playing music I've never grasped the concept of playing behind the beat. Or in front. I'm sure I've been doing it, or hearing it, but if I have it's been subconsciously.

I brought this up ages ago and was soundly berated as I said surely if its behind the beat it's out of time but the final conclusion was  that behind the beat is a feel rather than playing slightly out of time. 

[Dad3353]

I've just listened to the original, Supremes, recording (again...) on Youtube, and it sounds just fine to me, neither slow, fast, behind nor in front. Just a sound, solid, bass line, nicely tucked in with the drums. The 'feel' is of a real player, rather than a metronome, but there's no fault that I can hear (Disclaimer : I'm a drummer...). I can't hear any problem with it. Just sayin'. 

[CamdenRob]

19 hours ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

In all my years of playing music I've never grasped the concept of playing behind the beat. Or in front. I'm sure I've been doing it, or hearing it, but if I have it's been subconsciously.

Yeah me neither... too clever for me.

I just play in time... 🤔

I also play my fretless in tune 🤥 ...honest.

[ubit]

 

[ubit]

https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/15376/what-exactly-is-the-act-of-playing-behind-the-beat

 

This is all quite interesting and shows that it is all about feel.

[Mykesbass]

This video came up on the one that @ubit posted. The description at the top is great. The rest is a bit of a let down. 

 

[ubit]

What I don't understand is when they talk of drummers playing behind or in front of the beat. It's the drummer who creates the beat surely.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, ubit said:

 

With the greatest of respect that video is rubbish. On was appropriate and in time, behind was out of time, and ahead was alternating between out of time and the same as on. When he’s playing behind you can clearly hear a nasty flam effect with the double bass. It’s just different terms for the right feel for a style or genre. There is no on, behind or ahead of the beat, only something that is in time. Think about it - if I play ahead, the keys are on the beat and the drums are behind, it’s a train wreck. If everyone plays ahead or on or behind then it’s just in time, which is on.. I’ve heard the beat being described as having a width which permits this behind, on or ahead. I’ve never heard it and never heard anyone I’ve played with demonstrate it successfully either. Don’t confuse feel, timing and especially note length and articulation as this is often what people really mean. All IMHO, of course

[ubit]

2 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

With the greatest of respect that video is rubbish. On was appropriate and in time, behind was out of time, and ahead was alternating between out of time and the same as on. When he’s playing behind you can clearly hear a nasty flam effect with the double bass. It’s just different terms for the right feel for a style or genre. There is no on, behind or ahead of the beat, only something that is in time. Think about it - if I play ahead, the keys are on the beat and the drums are behind, it’s a train wreck. If everyone plays ahead or on or behind then it’s just in time, which is on.. I’ve heard the beat being described as having a width which permits this behind, on or ahead. I’ve never heard it and never heard anyone I’ve played with demonstrate it successfully either. Don’t confuse feel, timing and especially note length and articulation as this is often what people really mean. All IMHO, of course

I thought that too. It wasn't the best video to represent the definition. I thought he was playing wildly out of time. If you look at the link below my video the information explains it much better.

[WHencOURageMENT]

Hello to all you Rhythm Cats & Pulsaters (as a band used that or Pulshaters, OK I'll stop before I go off on one and I DO), Hi from the front side LOL, 

You no how it is, you hear something think about it but this time I'm waking up with the TV on, That's 60s on,  so after "you can't hurry love " Supreme video came on,  it has always sounded rushed,  more so I think on the video because you have chance to see the vocals, it doesn't sound or look comfortable paced, so I was singing it in my head at a slower pace and it seemed easier more comfortable without the Rush,

So I looked it up and came across your discussion, and found a few comments that as a musician like many have ADHD, Personally I have to go into great depth of the vast science, physics, engineering, design, logic, methodology, evolution, theory etc of my main instruments and others in the sounds and how they are produced and sound waves travel through instruments,  the more I know the more it makes sense, 

After experiencing 59 Christmases I still know F all, 

A few comments on a forum for musicians particularly Bass Rhythm musicians, with a high responsibility for establishing the style of the tune, connecting inner sections A,B,C & turn arounds etc "in a simple example".

1 comment regarding playing ahead or behind the beat, that they don't understand it or why,  they should have a long sit down and think about what they are playing a musical instrument for? What music means to them? If they are in a band or playing with others are they helping or hindering them?

The point of this, if music didn't have any of these accidental's we would all be professors at the highest possible level of learning,  probably long ago and gave up board to death, quite happy to let computer technology repeat variations of crap. 

The only thing funny about it is that no one else seemed to notice this and point out why it is so wrong in every way,  to think it, for a person who sees themselves or thinks of themselves as a musician and a bassist, is unbelievable, to me it seems one of if not the most important concept in music and what music is? Or do you think that it wrong and I am?

To be clear I was dumped in the remedial classes at school in the 70s, so I  have taught myself everything and if I lived a thousand years I still wouldn't know half of what music is, so I'm not a silver spooned rich kid, 

On a bit lighter side, the 2nd comment was from a fretless bass player who said honestly he played in tune? The point is that he truly would be the only one that actually is playing in Tune, just like violin quartets etc and Trombone,  but violin groups specifically play with the same family group of instruments and have their own compositions that are in tune,  unlike the majority of music that has been composed in Equal Temperament tuning, created purely for design, engineering and simplicity to make keyed, fretted and other mathematical instrument possibilities,  each chromatic note being the distance to the next as it was from the last,  by doing this we get 12 notes that scale patterns can be built, sacrificing tuning and natural harmonics, overtones ( tones within a tone produced naturally) a great example of what and how this is can be found and actually see it by searching Xylophone keys and tuning the highest quality ones,  by putting salt on the block and hitting the vibration makes the salt accumulate in different areas very obvious, each of these can be finely tuned, basic cheaper Xylophones the key block is tuned, maybe the 5th, but the mega price Xylophones have as many as possible overtones within each key block finely tuned,  but it is amazing to see if your interested,  

But back to Equal Temperament and fretless bass , a keyed instrument is possible to produce a playable instrument because of Equal Temperament not tuning purely mathematical, otherwise it would have to many keys, no simple pattern and out of reach for the longest fingers, 

So piano tuners having perfect is so far from the truth it's laughable,  I've not had a Bass or fretless bass for years,  but if I remember correctly " on days like these " tune from The Italian Job, there is a Note in the tune that is not part of a scale of Equal Temperament instruments,  if you have a good ear and no the tune, it will clear when you get to the note it's out of tune playing keys or frets, if you have a fretless or something able to play it,  you will be enlightened by harmony, natural sound and tuning, how far humanity has accepted it without noticing,  are we missing anything, does it make any difference, or could it be possible reasons why we have become so far out of tune with nature and mother nature, planets harmonics,  in ancient times there was a massive connection with humanity around the world and harmony, balance and sound in music and rhythm was a major factor that we have long lost and getting worse,  

Personally from the way I research,  investigate and look into this, I definitely think it is massively important and is responsible for lots,  it is also hugely important to achievements of humanity thousand of years ago that we are still unable to do or understand why and how they did it back then, until we stop thinking because we are the modernist most advanced civilization and alive now so that makes us way ahead of any past society, culture or periods,  then we are massively in front and look down ignorantly on those from history, all we have done far better is kill, create and painlessly use nuclear weapons that have destroyed the ozone testing in the upper atmosphere and outer space "how f***in stupid can a government be to think about doing it never mind doing it, and loads more,  a free bragging country so scared of how another country uses their freedom that they created and provoked trouble with lies and propaganda to stop freedom and control their claimed free country doesn't want to be communist to, why if what they tell their people is true would they want to change? That is control dictatorship power not freedom, created cold war with lies and propaganda and continue to, why would a free happy top country be so worried that they have to lie and cheat their own people if it was true? And if they are truly free then it is their own decision not for the government to dictate what they can and cannot do, 

Anyone with half a brain clearly knows that is for those who are in power and live such wealthy lives and they don't want to be found out what they have all been doing for years and end up like the Zars of Russia and French royalty after the people decided enough was enough, and the dictatorship powers who have been lying and keeping their own people down with lies will end up the same, 

It might have been a deliberate invention to control the people who in the past judged societies like Egyptian leaders forcing slaves to build pyramids and treating them like dogs, but that has all been thrown out because the people who built the pyramids were respected very well treated and looked after housed and happy,  so they are judging history in the same poor condescending bullying way they treat and view people today in so called modern civilised society, 

Yes we are out of tune and need to find harmony, balance and then we will really move forward,  historians still believe we are the first civilised humanity,  but gobecytepy!?!? In Turkey 12000 years old about 7000 years older than what they say should be,  and do they really believe by chance in all the world they managed to find the first oldest place and jumped from caves to that with nothing between, how many people were alive back in history because they seem to have endless time, wealth and resources to spend time in large groups building such massive constructions with bucket and wooden spades and carving stones,  but what is known rhythm, sounds, harmony and balance was a major factor in all cultures around the world and the little tribes in areas still say and beliefs about sounds had been involved in certain things, like chanting levitate massive stone monoliths and building, hitting certain rocks did similar, some places have massive stones that actually ring like metal bells, could even say the moon resonates and rings like a hollow bell, horns that crumbled the walls of Jerusalem or Jerico!? 

OK I did say at the start I have a tendency to go off on one lol,

Hope your not bored all the best and the more tools in your box the more you can do,  information comes from books and literature, knowledge comes from experience, skills, 

Wisdom comes from both, 

Ignorance comes from not realising that, 

The reason nothing comes from that, is because it comes from anyone anywhere and you think you know better or are better