Moving to 5-string: would it be a problem?

[lksmks792]

I switch between a 4 and a 5 string without too much of a problem. Took some practice to get used to it though. I understand some people never really get on with them, so the only way to know for sure is to give it a go yourself I guess.

[stewblack]

This thread motivated me to dig out and ressurect my OLP 5.

After a bit of fun with soldering iron and pliers I got it fired up. It provided some useful insight. I don't know my 5ths well enough going down (as it were) certainly not as well as going up. Put another way I'm fine with 'what is a fifth of...' but less well versed in 'what is ... a fifth of'. 

I assumed all would be easier as the hardest part of bass is often horizontal movement. However I quickly discovered what you gain in remaining in one position, you lose in open strings. Obviously the open strings are there still there but they don't flow as well. The other thing you have is wider fretboard and or narrow string spacing. Which might be fine for you, but is a consideration. 

In my case the thing I missed most was the rounded punch of a pick up in the P Bass position, but that has nothing to do with the number of strings! 

[Grahambythesea]

I mainly 5 stringers, fretted and fretless, one of which has 19mm spacing. You get used to it in seconds and one of the advantages is playing higher up the board, eg if in F start on the 6th on 5 rather than 1st on 4. You need to stretch your hand a lot less. The 5th is also quite a useful thumb rest 🥴👍🏼
I also have a short scale 4 string and as soon as I pick that up I seem to adjust  in the same way as one does if you pick up a 6 (or 12) string guitar. 
Don’t be intimidated by the instrument, just go for it.

[lownote]

if you five or six someone will say "Four were good enough for Jaco, so they should be good enough for you". Which stumped me the first time someone said it.  I am now primed to respond "Yeah, but think what he could have done with five / six (delete where applicable)."

String theory raises hackles. At the last but one bass show in London Rich Brown (six) was heckled by some idiot who was persistently incensed anyone should stray from  the path of four play. Brown made him look pretty small while ( I thought ) showing remarkable politeness and restraint.

Edited May 20, 2020 by lownote12

[Happy Jack]

2 hours ago, lownote12 said:

if you five or six someone will say "Four were good enough for Jaco, so they should be good enough for you".

The correct answer is, "Yes, but I'm WAY better than him".

 

[FinnDave]

5 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

The correct answer is, "Yes, but I'm WAY better than him".

 

Unless you're speaking to a member of the non bass-playing public, who will have said "Jaco who?"

[NickA]

Had my 5 a year now.  Just getting the hang of it.  You can't really just play it like a four, because damping methods most people use on a 4'leave the bottom  B ringing on which muddies up the sound.  Also you can't dig in to the E string easily because there's another string in the way.

I've sorted damping ( floating thumb ) use the bottom D quite a lot and now starting to learn new fingerings that use all 5 strings and fewer shifts.

Different beast to a four.

 

[Lfalex v1.1]

8 hours ago, NickA said:

Had my 5 a year now.  Just getting the hang of it.  You can't really just play it like a four, because damping methods most people use on a 4'leave the bottom  B ringing on which muddies up the sound.  Also you can't dig in to the E string easily because there's another string in the way.

I've sorted damping ( floating thumb ) use the bottom D quite a lot and now starting to learn new fingerings that use all 5 strings and fewer shifts.

Different beast to a four.

 

(Assuming you're using fingerstyle using index and middle fingers) There's a technique  "fix" for this that works equally well on 4,5 or 6 (never tried a 7)

When playing strings higher than the lowest-pitched, (gently) rest your thumb against it enough to damp it. Use your third finger to damp the string physically above the one you're plucking and play up "through" that string into the one you're damping. Means you can dig into the "E" all you want.

When it comes to the "B", simply move your thumb slightly, such that it no longer damps the string and pluck away.

As for damping the thinner strings beneath where you're playing, that falls to your left hand if necessary.

One negative of this technique is that your 3rd finger is always in use, and can't be deployed for 3 finger styles (like Gary Willis), but that's another whole technique itself.

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, FinnDave said:

Unless you're speaking to a member of Basschat who will have said "Jaco who?"

Fixed 😀

[NickA]

2 hours ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

There's a technique  "fix" for this

I never used right hand damping on my 4-strings, the left hand handled it all. 

On the 5 I've adopted this "floating thumb" thing (where your thumb lies on top of all the strings below the one you're playing) - almost the opposite of your technique.

Still, even with the thumb in play; like you, I usually damp the B-string separately, but doing it with my ring finger on the B string to give me a position reference and my thumb damping the higher strings!  A major problem for me was the extra string and the A string being in the middle of the fingerboard; I still hit the wrong string sometimes, playing a G instead of a C for instance; it's not the narrower string spacing, just the extra string!

Anyway, there are evidently many ways to kill this particular cat ... and I'll give your method a go next time I deserve a break from "working at home" (aka idly browsing Basschat!)

[krispn]

On 19/05/2020 at 11:12, Happy Jack said:

Once you start using the B-string 'properly', don't get carried away with playing really low notes ... think instead about playing across the neck rather than zooming up and down it. If you're playing in E, for example, make your foundation E the 5th fret on the B-string rather than the open E string. You may be surprised how much more versatile you become.

This!

If you want to think of the root notes on the B string as your starting position the patterns can remain quite similar (well for all fretted notes). I played a 5'er exclusively for a number of years as a gig I had required me to play covers but often with key changes to suit the choir. The ability to transpose bass lines incorporating the lower notes rather than having to creep up the neck and also the ability to remain in one position (which admittedly some players can find a little boring after a while) scored bonus points for the 5 string. Don't fall into the trap like Happy Jack says of adding 'low notes' just because you can. It's not always the best choice but the lower notes can really support a good ballad or a key change when the bass goes low when the guitars etc go up! Really adds some power to a tune I think!

 

Oh anad a final tip if you do want to embrace the 5'er put your 4 string bass away for a month and don't be tempted to switch back and forth. Get comfortable/confident on the 5. It'll speed up your learning/confidence!

Edited May 21, 2020 by krispn

[Cuzzie]

Lots of good advice here.

I used a 5 banger for a while and didn’t find too much of a ‘transition’ problem. Sometimes I think we create hurdles that are not there, or perpetuate dogma written down, so a mindset gets created to fail rather than flourish.

I played it like a 4 string and when I wanted a lower note Between E and B I added it in if I thought the song sounded better, if I thought it was played better up an octave I did. I didn’t play it exclusively, but I played it more than the 4.

Ultimately Drop D or drop D down half a step suits what I do - that’s about it.

Have some fun with it!

[BigRedX]

I don't see what the fuss is all about. It's just an extra string. The tuning interval between this extra string and the others doesn't change irrespective of whether you go for low B or high C - it's still a 4th down or up, so all you playing patterns transpose perfectly.

Having said that I've pretty much played 5-strings only since I switched back to mainly playing bass in the late 80s.

There is one thing that helps. Stop switching between your old 4-string basses and the 5-string unless you are going to use the two different types of bases for different bands and/or styles of music. I had a brief spell of playing 4-string fretless at the same time as playing fretted 5-string, mainly because I hadn't found a 5-string fretless that was as good as my fretted basses, but getting a good 4-string fretless was much easier. But because I only used the 4-string on songs where I played fretless and the 5-string on songs that needed a fretted bass, there was never any confusion. At the moment I play 5-string basse in one band and Bass Vi in another. The baselines I play for the two bands different styles so once again there is no confusion between the two.

[chris_b]

A bass is a tool to do a job. The job is to make music. The number of strings is irrelevant. 

I prefer more choices of notes and playing positions so I play a 5 string bass.

[stewblack]

3 hours ago, chris_b said:

A bass is a tool to do a job. The job is to make music. The number of strings is irrelevant. 

I prefer more choices of notes and playing positions so I play a 5 string bass.

Well, to a point yes. But a hammer is just a tool right? I'd say it was very relevant if it's a 4lb lump hammer or a 4oz toffee hammer. Relevant to hand size, what exactly you plan to hit with it, and personal preference.

[binky_bass]

I went from a 4 string bass straight to a 10 string bass... going to a 5 should phase you! 

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, stewblack said:

Well, to a point yes. But a hammer is just a tool right? I'd say it was very relevant if it's a 4lb lump hammer or a 4oz toffee hammer. Relevant to hand size, what exactly you plan to hit with it, and personal preference.

When you choose the right tool for the job you do a better job. Natch.

[ead]

1 hour ago, binky_bass said:

I went from a 4 string bass straight to a 10 string bass...

That's a piano isn't it?

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

When you choose the right tool for the job you do a better job. Natch.

Yes exactly

[Rick05]

I love playing both my 4 and 5 string basses and both have their uses. 

The only thing I would recommend is if you do choose a 5 string, make sure the low b string is well set up, otherwise you end up with a really muddy string and you don’t get the best out of one.

[Kevin Dean]

On 21/05/2020 at 07:50, Lfalex v1.1 said:

(Assuming you're using fingerstyle using index and middle fingers) There's a technique  "fix" for this that works equally well on 4,5 or 6 (never tried a 7)

When playing strings higher than the lowest-pitched, (gently) rest your thumb against it enough to damp it. Use your third finger to damp the string physically above the one you're plucking and play up "through" that string into the one you're damping. Means you can dig into the "E" all you want.

When it comes to the "B", simply move your thumb slightly, such that it no longer damps the string and pluck away.

As for damping the thinner strings beneath where you're playing, that falls to your left hand if necessary.

One negative of this technique is that your 3rd finger is always in use, and can't be deployed for 3 finger styles (like Gary Willis), but that's another whole technique itself.

 

I hardly ever play finger style , mainly plectrum .

[Grahambythesea]

16 hours ago, Kevin Dean said:

I hardly ever play finger style , mainly plectrum .

In that case I suggest you choose a 5 with relatively narrow string spacing as leaping across the strings spaced at 19mm can be challenging and more likely to put you off. I believe most Ibanez 5’s come in 16.5mm. spacing which probably suits plectrum players better (certainly Dave Pegg think so and he’s no slouch) although I’m sure that there will now be a host of opposite opinions voiced here. You know how it is , ask 10 people the same question, get 12 different answers.

[FinnDave]

My Ibanez sixes had a fairly close string spacing and I play with a pick all the time now. In fact, I wonder how much room there'd have been had I tried to play fingerstyle.

[NickA]

On 22/05/2020 at 22:57, Kevin Dean said:

I hardly ever play finger style , mainly plectrum

Raising an interesting question about picks (I never learned) .. how do you stop strings ringing on?  Edge of right hand? In which case, extra string confusion apart, shouldn't be too hard to play a 5.

[FinnDave]

19 minutes ago, NickA said:

Raising an interesting question about picks (I never learned) .. how do you stop strings ringing on?  Edge of right hand? In which case, extra string confusion apart, shouldn't be too hard to play a 5.

As a pick player (last five years) after having been a finger player (previous 40 years), I am not sure I understand the question. Surely it's all down to the left hand (assuming a right handed player), release the pressure on the string and it stops instantly.