NBD: Ibanez SRMD205 Mezzo 5 string. Medium scale

[Hacksawbob]

I have both, and similarly not huge hands. I have to say if you are above the 10th fret, B E  and A stings are almost impossible for me to reach on the mezzo without my thumb getting strained. Not a massive issue as you can get to them elsewhere. What i do appreciate is the 2-5 and 1-4 stretch is a smidge less than the full scale. Its become my goto. 

[Hacksawbob]

Out of curiosity I thought I'd measure the two whilst I had them out. The pale blue with the maple board is the (mezzo in case you don't know.) I did a couple of pics that the ibanez stats don't give you, which are probably more related to playability. Ie 1-4 fret distance and comparable width at 12th fret. Apologies if this is getting a bit off topic. 

Edited February 18 by Hacksawbob

[Obrienp]

@Hacksawbob thanks for that, I found it helpful, even if nobody else does 😀. It reinforces my point though: why make the 32” neck wider than the full scale? The Mezzo neck even looks chunkier in the side by side photo you posted. The extra 4mm probably means nothing to most people but if you are cursed with short fingers, it just makes that stretch up there at the dusty end too much.

 

TBH, I’ve decided to wait to see what Nordstrand’s 5 string Acinonyx is like. The 4 has a very narrow neck, so I am hoping that concept is carried over to the 5. Shame, I would have liked a 5 string Mezzo, all things being equal. Although my experience with the 4 is that the preamp and pickups need replacing, so that expense needs to be factored into the cost equation.

[TRBboy]

5 hours ago, Obrienp said:

@Hacksawbob thanks for that, I found it helpful, even if nobody else does 😀. It reinforces my point though: why make the 32” neck wider than the full scale? The Mezzo neck even looks chunkier in the side by side photo you posted. The extra 4mm probably means nothing to most people but if you are cursed with short fingers, it just makes that stretch up there at the dusty end too much.

 

TBH, I’ve decided to wait to see what Nordstrand’s 5 string Acinonyx is like. The 4 has a very narrow neck, so I am hoping that concept is carried over to the 5. Shame, I would have liked a 5 string Mezzo, all things being equal. Although my experience with the 4 is that the preamp and pickups need replacing, so that expense needs to be factored into the cost equation.

I would've thought it's dictated by the PJ pickups being standard sizes, e.g. for 18/19mm spacing at the bridge. Bearing in mind this is a budget instrument, I would've thought completely custom pickups including custom moulded covers wasn't even an option. Which begs the question why didn't they just use the soapbars like on the SR300/400 series? 🤷

[fretmeister]

6 hours ago, Obrienp said:

@Hacksawbob thanks for that, I found it helpful, even if nobody else does 😀. It reinforces my point though: why make the 32” neck wider than the full scale? The Mezzo neck even looks chunkier in the side by side photo you posted. The extra 4mm probably means nothing to most people but if you are cursed with short fingers, it just makes that stretch up there at the dusty end too much.

 

TBH, I’ve decided to wait to see what Nordstrand’s 5 string Acinonyx is like. The 4 has a very narrow neck, so I am hoping that concept is carried over to the 5. Shame, I would have liked a 5 string Mezzo, all things being equal. Although my experience with the 4 is that the preamp and pickups need replacing, so that expense needs to be factored into the cost equation.

Why is it wider?

 

Easy.

 

Because the Mezzo has to reach 18mm string spacing at the bridge in a shorter length. So the strings naturally splay out wider, faster than the needed splay to reach 16.5mm at the bridge of the other bass.

 

To make the neck the same width per fret the Mezzo would need to be even narrower at the bridge than the SR series. Maybe only 15.5mm or so. And that’s too tight for many people to want to buy.

 

I could work out the splay properly (or ask my daughter to do it!) but I can’t be arsed! 

[Woodinblack]

44 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I could work out the splay properly (or ask my daughter to do it!) but I can’t be arsed! 

 

There is really no big calculation there, the strings at the 12th fret is exactly half the size difference between the nut spacing and the string spacing at the bridgeg.

The scale length has nothing to do with it, with the same nut size and same bridge size it will always be the same.

[fretmeister]

Yeah, but I don’t have an SR to measure at a notional 32inch scale to see what the bridge spacing would be at that position. But it will be narrower than 16.5mm.

[Obrienp]

OK guys. I get what you are saying but in that case, why is the 4 string Mezzo neck slightly narrower than the 4 string SR? Shouldn’t it be slightly wider too? 

 

Regarding the P Pickup and spacing; the beauty of the split P design is that the top and bottom halves can be set to overlap a bit more than standard in order to compensate for narrower string spacing. I did this on a Bronco that I modified. It worked OK. I would also point out that the standard pickup positioning on my 4 string Mezzo means that the E string is not that well aligned with the pole pieces but it still works OK. This could be down to manufacturing tolerances on my example but it looks to me as though the bodies are knocked up on CNC machines, so they should be pretty uniform.

[fretmeister]

1 hour ago, Obrienp said:

OK guys. I get what you are saying but in that case, why is the 4 string Mezzo neck slightly narrower than the 4 string SR? Shouldn’t it be slightly wider too? 

 

 

 

 It "should" only be something when all other factors are equal - and that includes the gap between the strings and the edge of the board that the designer wanted.

 

The 2 basses don't have the same number of frets so the specs page shows different measurements at the final fret. The 22f Mezzo figure is narrower than the 24f SR as expected. But perhaps the Mezzo notional 24f would be the same width. If that is the case then the neck widths should be about the same at any given fret. But if it is different, then it won't be.

 

Draw it out to a sensible scale and you'll see the factors that affect it, and also the ones that don't.

[Woodinblack]

19 hours ago, fretmeister said:

Yeah, but I don’t have an SR to measure at a notional 32inch scale to see what the bridge spacing would be at that position. But it will be narrower than 16.5mm.

 

Maybe I missed the start of the conversation here, but no idea what the scale length has to do with the bridge spacing. Unless you meant the bridge pickup or something. The bridge is invariably either 16.5, 18 or 19mm on an ibanez, which has nothing to do with scale, and whether your scale length is a mile or 10", the string spacing at the 12th fret will be the same (maybe your neck might be wider if they want to put more wood either side).

 

according to ibanezes mezzo spec, it is 18mm at the bridge and 45mm at the nut, so a max of 11mm (probably some space, so invariably just under 10mm). So the string spacing at the 12th fret is 14mm (10 + (18 - 10) / 2), so the neck has to be at least 56mm to fit the strings over it, and then a bit more either side to stop the strings falling off the side

An SR is the same at the nut but narrower at the bridge, so 10 + (16.5 - 10)/2 = 13.25 so 53 to fit the strings then a bit more.

 

Looking at an SR here, that is pretty well what it is (except the string spacing at the nut is narrower).

[fretmeister]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Maybe I missed the start of the conversation here, but no idea what the scale length has to do with the bridge spacing. Unless you meant the bridge pickup or something. The bridge is invariably either 16.5, 18 or 19mm on an ibanez, which has nothing to do with scale, and whether your scale length is a mile or 10", the string spacing at the 12th fret will be the same (maybe your neck might be wider if they want to put more wood either side).

 

according to ibanezes mezzo spec, it is 18mm at the bridge and 45mm at the nut, so a max of 11mm (probably some space, so invariably just under 10mm). So the string spacing at the 12th fret is 14mm (10 + (18 - 10) / 2), so the neck has to be at least 56mm to fit the strings over it, and then a bit more either side to stop the strings falling off the side

An SR is the same at the nut but narrower at the bridge, so 10 + (16.5 - 10)/2 = 13.25 so 53 to fit the strings then a bit more.

 

Looking at an SR here, that is pretty well what it is (except the string spacing at the nut is narrower).

 

You have indeed missed it!  

 

My point was that for the splay of the neck along it's length to remain the same as on a different scale instrument, the bridge spacing would have to be different. I wasn't saying that the bridge spacing is different.

 

Take the SR for example.

 

At 34 inches and a 38mm nut the bridge spacing is 19mm.

 

To leave the neck exactly as it is but make it a 32 inch scale the bridge would be closer to the end of the neck (I'm ignoring fret positioning etc). As the neck shape is going to remain constant in this example, the string spacing at the bridge would have to be a little narrower. It could not stay at 19mm because the strings would get too close to the edges of the f'board at the final fret and might not even be over the neck at all.

 

It's easy to see.

 

Stick something that is 19mm in between the E and A string. Slide it towards the neck by 2 inches or even 4 inches. You've now pushed the strings wider apart. The splay is larger. So the designer has a choice. Either have a wider splay / width progression on the neck and keep the 19mm string spacing, or keep the neck as it is and have a slightly narrower bridge spacing. (I'm ignoring repositioning the frets as that is irrelevant here).

 

This is why the width of the neck at the 12th fret or 22nd fret is wider on a shorter scale bass if the bridge spacing and nut width are the same as on the long scale version.

 

I hadn't even thought about it until I got 2 shorties - 1 with 19mm spacing and the other at 16mm. The neck widths are quite different as I move up the neck.

[Woodinblack]

33 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

You have indeed missed it!  

 

ok! thought I must have missed something, so sorry for that.

 

33 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

At 34 inches and a 38mm nut the bridge spacing is 19mm.

 

To leave the neck exactly as it is but make it a 32 inch scale the bridge would be closer to the end of the neck (I'm ignoring fret positioning etc). As the neck shape is going to remain constant in this example, the string spacing at the bridge would have to be a little narrower. It could not stay at 19mm because the strings would get too close to the edges of the f'board at the final fret and might not even be over the neck at all.

 

Indeed - it would have to be 18.47mm.. or close to 18.5mm

So if you had a EHB or one of the later SRs you could probably make that adjustment on the same bridge!

[Obrienp]

At the risk of keeping this hare running: in that case, I wish Ibanez had put a bridge with narrower spacing on the 5 string Mezzo. That way we could have had the benefit of the shorter scale without the extra neck width.

[fretmeister]

28 minutes ago, Obrienp said:

At the risk of keeping this hare running: in that case, I wish Ibanez had put a bridge with narrower spacing on the 5 string Mezzo. That way we could have had the benefit of the shorter scale without the extra neck width.

I agree. Even just a little to 17.5mm to match a Stingray would have been very nice. 44.5mm. It would have been great as well.

[fretmeister]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

ok! thought I must have missed something, so sorry for that.

 

 

Indeed - it would have to be 18.47mm.. or close to 18.5mm

So if you had a EHB or one of the later SRs you could probably make that adjustment on the same bridge!

No apologies needed. Theres a very good chance I didn’t explain myself very well!