Codename: Project Pink-Torpedo Up

[Stub Mandrel]

The obvious answers are:

 

Taper the spacer, unlikely to work even if the pickup to neck distance is large and only one pickup.

 

Pad out neck pocket.

 

Cut body in half cross-wise and have a step in its shape.

 

Use different pickup.

 

Use different neck.

 

Pickup cover.

[Si600]

Inserts and neck screws, is there an optimum size, M5 seems about right from the old eyeball, M6 feels too big and M4 too weedy, but what are you using?  I know @Jabba_the_gut uses them on his builds.

[benh]

I've used M4 on both my builds, perfectly suitable so far - I believe @Andyjr1515 uses M4 bolts and inserts too if I remember one of the build threads correctly

[Jabba_the_gut]

5 hours ago, Si600 said:

 I know @Jabba_the_gut uses them on his builds.

Yep, I settled on M5 on my builds.

[Andyjr1515]

M4 is plenty.  Remember that the 'standard' woodscrews have only a 3mm core and the stainless steel machine screws (I use A2) are much stronger per mm than woodscrews.  I saw an Auster light aircraft tubular mainframe once.  I reckon that the holes in the engine lugs were around 5mm...and just four of those held the engine on!

[Si600]

I've got some new pickups and tuners... this thing may actually get something happening soon...

 

Question regarding said pickups, they're Delano quad core soapbars and have four wires hanging out of the. I'm not clear on what they are though and the documentation from Delano isn't great. One is marked ground, do I assume that's a common ground and the other three are the other ends of the coils, though shouldn't there be four wires plus a ground in that instance?

[SpondonBassed]

Is this of any use?

[Si600]

Not really. That's what I've got, IMHO it's bit short on detail, and accuracy.

[SpondonBassed]

43 minutes ago, Si600 said:

Not really. That's what I've got, IMHO it's bit short on detail, and accuracy.

 

Might be worth searching or asking in the Repairs and Technical section.

[Andyjr1515]

7 hours ago, Si600 said:

I've got some new pickups and tuners... this thing may actually get something happening soon...

 

Question regarding said pickups, they're Delano quad core soapbars and have four wires hanging out of the. I'm not clear on what they are though and the documentation from Delano isn't great. One is marked ground, do I assume that's a common ground and the other three are the other ends of the coils, though shouldn't there be four wires plus a ground in that instance?

What colours are the four wires you mention?  If they are green, white, yellow and brown, then the Green is hot, the Yellow and White would normally be connected for full humbucking and the brown is to ground.  Any help?

Edited June 2, 2022 by Andyjr1515

[Si600]

How far into the neck do you insert fellas put the insert? Half way, two thirds?

[PaulThePlug]

Are the inserts not kinda flush fitting to the neck surface, using a slight counter bore?, with the bolt going all the way thru the insert?

[Si600]

Yes, but how much into the neck heel do they go? In my head, a half to two thirds seems reasonable, but I don't know. 

[Andyjr1515]

I use the ones without a flange and go just a gnat's deeper than flush.  Just make sure that the hole it is going into is deep enough for the bolt you are going to use or you will discover the 'quick but brutal' way of removing inserts

 

[Si600]

But how long is the insert!??! Do you go all the way to the underside of the fretboard? 

[Andyjr1515]

An M4 insert is usually around 10mm long.

[Andyjr1515]

Hi, Si

 

A few pictures are worth a thousand Andyjr1515 words.

 

For Happy Jack's Lull, I checked the bolt length and insert length first to make sure that the bolt would use all the threads in the insert:

 

 

So that also gives me how deep a hole in the neck heel I need so that the bolt doesn't bottom before it's fully tight.

 

Machine bolts don't have the 'flex' that wood screws have - the inserts have to be fully in line with the hole.  I use a brad point of the body/ferrule hole size as a centre punch with the neck clamped in the correct position to mark where the centre point of the ferrule brad-point drill needs to be:

 

 

The drill hole in the neck heel should be the same diameter as the widest part of the inner (usually tapered) cylinder of the insert's external thread.  They should be inserted using a bolt and couple of nuts used as locknuts and a spanner.  Even if the inserts have a hex slot DO NOT use an Allen key to insert them.  Only use an Allen key if you need to take them out again:

 

 

These above happen to be flanged inserts.  Because the join needs to be flush, there is the added complication of having to create a rebate.  Normally, I would use the flangeless ones...but still only insert them to the flush depth.  You can go deeper, but need to allow for the longer bolts you will need to use to ensure that all of the internal thread is utilised.

 

Hope this helps

 

 

 

 

[Si600]

Me again.... do I need to consider any break angle on the neck pocket?

[Andyjr1515]

3 hours ago, Si600 said:

Me again.... do I need to consider any break angle on the neck pocket?

No more or less than if you were using standard woodscrews.  As long as the inserts aren't at all proud of the heel bottom, they won't affect the angle.

[Si600]

I was more concerned whether it was something I should consider at all? As far as I can tell the neck heel is parallel with the fingerboard and the neck pocket with the top of the body.

 

You can tell I'm making this up can't you 😉

[Stub Mandrel]

It only takes 2 or 3 threads for the thread of a nut/screw to be stronger than the core strength of the screw.

The insert length is much more to do with ensuring there is enough to grip the wood securely.

[tauzero]

On 02/01/2023 at 15:19, Andyjr1515 said:

The drill hole in the neck heel should be the same diameter as the widest part of the inner (usually tapered) cylinder of the insert's external thread.  They should be inserted using a bolt and couple of nuts used as locknuts and a spanner.  Even if the inserts have a hex slot DO NOT use an Allen key to insert them.  Only use an Allen key if you need to take them out again:

 

Rather belatedly - I've used inserts a couple of times and always used an allen key to insert them. What's the logic behind using a locked bolt instead? Does the allen key expand the insert slightly or something like that?

[Jabba_the_gut]

6 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

Rather belatedly - I've used inserts a couple of times and always used an allen key to insert them. What's the logic behind using a locked bolt instead? Does the allen key expand the insert slightly or something like that?

If this is similar to my experiences, I’ve had the Allen key round off the inside of the insert before it is fully installed. This then leaves the problem of trying to get the thing out again which is not always easy!! Using a bolt with a locking nut allows the insert to be fitted with a spanner without this risk. The inserts are generally some kind of alloy that is strong enough for cutting the thread in softwood or chipboard when being inserted but isn’t always the best for hardwoods. Once installed they are absolutely fine though.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Jabba_the_gut

[Andyjr1515]

10 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

Rather belatedly - I've used inserts a couple of times and always used an allen key to insert them. What's the logic behind using a locked bolt instead? Does the allen key expand the insert slightly or something like that?

It's no problem if they've worked OK but, in addition to the issue that @Jabba_the_gut raises there are two other advantages:

- they are quite thin and lightweight and they can crack open with the force of the allen key, especially when they are cutting a thread through something like rock maple (which often they are)

- it is easier to keep them straight.  You keep the position of the bolt with fingertip of one hand on the top and do all the heft with the spanner with your other hand.

 

So, it's not a crime, but it has advantages    

[tauzero]

12 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

It's no problem if they've worked OK but, in addition to the issue that @Jabba_the_gut raises there are two other advantages:

- they are quite thin and lightweight and they can crack open with the force of the allen key, especially when they are cutting a thread through something like rock maple (which often they are)

- it is easier to keep them straight.  You keep the position of the bolt with fingertip of one hand on the top and do all the heft with the spanner with your other hand.

 

So, it's not a crime, but it has advantages    

 

I understand now. I think the only times I've used them have been with softwood or MDF/chipboard, so that explains why I haven't had problems.