Musicman Stingray - Such a love/hate relationship

[simon1964]

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='431582' date='Mar 11 2009, 03:21 PM']That makes interesting reading. It'll be good to see what you think.

Peter[/quote]

I'll report back once its fitted!

Had an email exchange with John, and he tells me that it is designed to sound like a traditional 2 band Stingray with the mids set flat. But the mid control should allow me to dial in some low mids to give it a bit more clout but hopefullyretaining the overall Stingray tone. Hope so!

[josh3184]

i was very happy with my 200? ray for ages, then I got my sterling which wasnt really my cup of tea and the my 79. I never realised how annoying the ray was to position in a mix until I got my 79, which to my ears doesn't suffer from the same problem. Interestingly, it was only when I acquired my $$ that I realised that the Ray isn't infallible. I still like it, but for a goto allround bass, its my $$ every time.

[Duarte]

All I can say is...if you want a bass like a Ray but with none of the quirks...get a bongo. Simply incredible in every aspect.

However, neither of my Rays have the quirks. But I would prefer 2EQ to 3EQs...there is just something about them.

[josh3184]

thats another point, the 79 is a 2band for what its worth. mmmm would love a bongo but not a lot of lefties doing the rounds

[Johnzy]

My first Musicman bass was a original SUB. A/B it with 3 band stingray at the time and I didnt see the differance. I love this bass to bits, its a pig to work with but when you get it right its fab. playing it is easy, but the painted neck does get very sticky if not wiped down after gigs. I hate the lack of control with the 2 band eq, its a little drastic and its either flat off or full on!
I bought a 5 string stingray a couple of years to tour with and its a cool bass, but I've some pet hates.
The bass eq is voiced too close to 100h, so when its full on it just blows everything up and is undefined. the mid is a little pointless, and the treble is very clanky. I find I have to fiddle alot more to get a great tone to work with a band. although this bass is KILLER for reggae and dub!!! its gonna have flats on soon to turn it into a DUB beast.
One thing I have notices when touring alot is the necks are very unstable. Every month I have complete setup the bass because the neck moves, and therefore I have to intonate etc. this pisses me off as my warwick rarely moves, didnt even wobble when I went from cold Bristol to sunny havana!!!
I wouldnt tour for long periods with a musicman, because they are just too unreliable. but I'm gonna keep my two because I love the sound soo much.

[Linus27]

[quote name='Johnzy' post='432194' date='Mar 12 2009, 10:01 AM']My first Musicman bass was a original SUB. A/B it with 3 band stingray at the time and I didnt see the differance. I love this bass to bits, its a pig to work with but when you get it right its fab. playing it is easy, but the painted neck does get very sticky if not wiped down after gigs. I hate the lack of control with the 2 band eq, its a little drastic and its either flat off or full on!
I bought a 5 string stingray a couple of years to tour with and its a cool bass, but I've some pet hates.
The bass eq is voiced too close to 100h, so when its full on it just blows everything up and is undefined. the mid is a little pointless, and the treble is very clanky. I find I have to fiddle alot more to get a great tone to work with a band. although this bass is KILLER for reggae and dub!!! its gonna have flats on soon to turn it into a DUB beast.
One thing I have notices when touring alot is the necks are very unstable. Every month I have complete setup the bass because the neck moves, and therefore I have to intonate etc. this pisses me off as my warwick rarely moves, didnt even wobble when I went from cold Bristol to sunny havana!!!
I wouldnt tour for long periods with a musicman, because they are just too unreliable. but I'm gonna keep my two because I love the sound soo much.[/quote]

It's intersting you say this as my first musicman had the same problem with the neck. It would never settle down and needed setting up all the time. I took it back to Musicman and they said the wood was to soft and so replaced the neck. The new neck was perfect and never moved. Maybe your neck wood is to soft also.

[WILD FROG SHOT]

I've been having a similar problem using a Stringray to emphasise the low end on our new album; ended up recording some of the tracks on my Jazz.

Is there anything out there that plays like a Ray but sounds like a Jazz?

[Josh]

[quote name='WILD FROG SHOT' post='432439' date='Mar 12 2009, 02:16 PM']I've been having a similar problem using a Stringray to emphasise the low end on our new album; ended up recording some of the tracks on my Jazz.

Is there anything out there that plays like a Ray but sounds like a Jazz?[/quote]

A Lakland 44-02/55-02 maybe what your after.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Josh

[harvey1-8]

[quote name='Johnzy' post='432194' date='Mar 12 2009, 10:01 AM']One thing I have notices when touring alot is the necks are very unstable. Every month I have complete setup the bass because the neck moves, and therefore I have to intonate etc. this pisses me off as my warwick rarely moves, didnt even wobble when I went from cold Bristol to sunny havana!!![/quote]

I have this problem with the neck on my 'Ray as well. Stick it in it's case for a week or two out of the way and it's bound to move. Because of it's unreliability and other factors that I've already mentioned in this thread, it's the only bass I have that I'd be happy to part with.

[dub_junkie]

[quote name='Duarte' post='431714' date='Mar 11 2009, 05:40 PM']All I can say is...if you want a bass like a Ray but with none of the quirks...get a bongo. Simply incredible in every aspect.[/quote]

Bongos come with their own set of quirks imo. I just got another one last week and I'm enjoying the tones from it but I dont know if I prefer it or would take it over my StingRay5. imo the SR5 in parallel setting with a teensy bit of bass boost just fits in with anything. Never need to change the sound,forget about controls...just play. Its a great bass for that.

[mrcrow]

i fouind my SR5 quite a beautiful bass
with the rw board
mellow and musical
just what i needed to accompany vocals
i thought the 3 band eq did it proud and the top end was tight and not scratchy
i guess i got a good one

[martthebass]

I think MM's can inspire the same degree of 'love-hate' comments as Rics and Warwicks. It's easy to generalise. Certainly if you don't like the 'Ray' sound don't go near one. A few comments tho, IMHO:

1. They are generally well made. I think at the pricing point they outstrip MIA Fenders and quite a few other 'mass produced' basses.
2. I don't get this 2EQ vs 3EQ thing. I've had both and TBH I found very little difference, I'd agree they were slightly different, but I'd be hard pushed to say one as better than the other. I for one find the Mid EQ to be useful in a gig situation.
3. While Rays have a generic sound I think they do vary. My 3EQ 2005 maple FB SR4 sounds far more hifi and in your face than my RW necked SR5 which is quite mellow. The SR5 strangely enough doesn't sound that much different to the DJ5 I sold last year (but completely different to the G&L L2500 that it replaced).
4. I agree they can be amp sensitive. I hated the Ray sound thru my old Trace Elliot, but both mine sound great thru my MarkBass set up.
5. The 'Weak G'. I think this varies. My old 1990 didn't have it, a 2004 Sterling I had did a bit, my 2005 had it until I lowered the G. The SR5 doesn't have it. Go figure.

[Sean]

I had an SR5 for a couple of weeks. Lovely neck, great build quality, cool looks. Couldn't do a thing with it; thumb too far back for me and no matter what setting I used the sound wasn't me and the drummer gave me a jolly good talking to about how essential it is to have a thumping bass in big soul band.

[Russ]

Quite a few years back, I had a Stingray... it was pretty much my Holy Grail at the time, and I ended up sorely disappointed with it. Lots of bottom, lots of top, but nothing in the middle, no "oomph". I just couldn't EQ it so it sounded good in a band mix, and it just wouldn't cut through distorted guitars. It's true that the older, pre-EB ones don't seem to have this issue though - they have a good dose of P-like "bark", while maintaining that typical Stingray sizzle, and they seem to have better string-to-string balance too.

What would someone have to do to "downgrade" their Stingray, to reproduce that 70's, pre-EB tone?

[TheRev]

[quote name='Russ' post='434611' date='Mar 14 2009, 02:19 PM']What would someone have to do to "downgrade" their Stingray, to reproduce that 70's, pre-EB tone?[/quote]


Bung in one of those lovely Nordstrand pickups.....

[Brother Jones]

[quote name='Russ' post='434611' date='Mar 14 2009, 02:19 PM']Lots of bottom, lots of top, but nothing in the middle, no "oomph". I just couldn't EQ it so it sounded good in a band mix, and it just wouldn't cut through distorted guitars. It's true that the older, pre-EB ones don't seem to have this issue though - they have a good dose of P-like "bark", while maintaining that typical Stingray sizzle, and they seem to have better string-to-string balance too.[/quote]

Very true on all counts. I had two in the nineties - a 2 bander fretted four and a fretless 5. Didn't really get on with either and they seemed to disappear in the mix unless the treble was whacked right up so that it 'clanked'. My other problem with them for solo noodling is that I could never get good harmonics out of them. On the plus side, they are very well put together and, at least in the past, used some really excellent figured woods for the necks and boards.

The pre-EB ones sound a lot better to my ears, with more mids and character. Perhaps that's just wood aging though.

[alanbass1]

I have had two Ernie Ball Stingrays and they weren't for me. But my '79 really is a beauty, lightweight Alder body and maple neck. I think the through body stringing and more substantial bridge makes a big difference.

[budget bassist]

i was playing my SUB last night, and realised that it really does sound nice for funk... maybe not metal, but a funk machine quite relieved, i thought i was going off it!

[Duarte]

The electronics (other than the 3EQ addition) have not changed since their introduction. The same circuit is used and the same pickup. Music Man has better quality control and far superior craftsmanship now than it did in the 70s...I really don't understand this G string issue, or the 'not cutting in the mix' issue. I don't have this G string issue, and I play in a metal/rock band, a soul/funk band and in the huge musical bands (2 pianos, horn section, sometimes 2 drummers, 2 guitarists, whole cast of vocalists...and me and my stingray) The 'cut' is probably the main trait of the stingray, that's it's thing, it cuts in every situation. The pickup produces masses of mids, maybe that's why people like the sound of the 2EQ better...because they have not scooped all the mids out.

But, as metallica would say: 'mids are for pussies!'

No, metallica, mids are our friend.

Edited March 15, 2009 by Duarte

[ahpook]

i feel a bit like this with my musicman sabre...lovely to play but never quite cuts it live.

i'd sell it, but i'm not sure girlfren would let me

[josh3184]

[quote name='ahpook' post='435530' date='Mar 15 2009, 08:59 PM']i feel a bit like this with my musicman sabre...lovely to play but never quite cuts it live.

i'd sell it, but i'm not sure girlfren would let me [/quote]

best girlfriend ever

[ModLad]

Hi mate,
I hear your plight with the modern 3 EQ Stingrays, for I had one once and sold the bloody thing in a short span of time.
However, I now have an OLP MM2 Stingray copy Licensed by Ernie Ball that is passive. I had the China electronics removed, and added USA pots, cap, and jack.
I then bought a new Nordstrand MM4.2 Musicman style pickup, which are wired and modeled after the original Leo Fender Music Man Stingrays pickups from the late '70s which is warmer, meatier, ballsy, punchy, and growly & more organic , and took my OLP Ray to the highest heights that bass could go and without a pre-amp! I also feel that the passive factor helps with a more warmer, organic sound. I HIGHLY recommend getting a Nordstrand MM4.2 pickup for your Stingray which will help fatten and warm up your Ernie Ball Ray's sound the way the old '70s Stingrays sounded. I played a couple '70s Stingrays and once you have heard those, you would NOT turn back to the modern 3 EQ Ernie Ball Rays! Get that pickup, mate! Here's the link [url="http://www.nordstrandpickups.com/bass-pickups/index.shtml"]http://www.nordstrandpickups.com/bass-pickups/index.shtml[/url]
I see that these pickups are sold in the UK as well. Here's one place you can buy this pup at across the pond by you, mate....
www.bassdirect.co.uk
I'm in NYC, USA, and its a pleasure to chat all you lads up about bass gear! Hope I was of some help, mate? Don't give up a Stingray, just give up that pickup in there now. If you put in the MM4.2, you can also choose to have a passive/active switch installed in your Ray, or just have the pre-amp taken out and go totally passive. You do have workable options that could encourage you to keep your Stingray, mate =)
Cheers mates,
ModLad

[mike257]

I've owned a pair of EBMM 'rays, and I always found they did the job when I was playing in full on rock bands. I went from the good old 2 guitar drums and vox, to a monster band with 3 guitarists, synths, drums and two singers, and never had any trouble cutting through the mix.

It's all changed now though, I'm in a much more laid back band, there's still a couple of guitarists, but very stripped back, and it's driven by the acoustic guitar and a slide player. I've got so much more 'space' for my bass sound to sit in, but the Stingray just doesn't work in it. I tried it for a rehearsal the other day, and it was like something didn't gel, but nobody could put their finger on it. As soon as I changed back to my Sandberg, everything just sounded so much more together.

It's like it can cut through a claustrophobic mix, but can't fill the space in something more open sounding. I don't know if I've fallen out of love with my dream bass, or if I've finally realised why people have more than one [i]different[/i] instrument in their collection!

[Paul_C]

Bongo is the way to go, and having owned just about all the variations of the 4 string, HS is the sweetest sounding of them all (IMHO, of course)

[The Funk]

I love the sound of Stingrays on late '70s records: Bernard Edwards and Louis Johnson are two of my absolute bass heroes. I've never managed to find one that I felt comfortable playing or that I could get that '70s sound out of.