New Mesa Subway head - Further update with added snake oil

[scrumpymike]

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

So if you can get a converter for a 1/4” Jack down to a 3.5mm (I haven’t looked) then that may do it.

Alternatively get a small mixer like a Xenyx 502 and a stereo to Jack cable and that will record - I have done that

Just got it back and the sockets are XLR so that's the lead I need.  Also posted on the recording forum to ask how to set the DI switching on the amp and any other tips.

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, scrumpymike said:

Just got it back and the sockets are XLR so that's the lead I need.  Also posted on the recording forum to ask how to set the DI switching on the amp and any other tips.

Thanks for making the effort but if its gonna be any trouble just leave it @scrumpymike. Didn't mean for you guys to go totally out of your way. 

I very much appreciate you are taking it on but please don't feel under any pressure from us.

Dave

[scrumpymike]

4 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Thanks for making the effort but if its gonna be any trouble just leave it @scrumpymike. Didn't mean for you guys to go totally out of your way. 

I very much appreciate you are taking it on but please don't feel under any pressure from us.

Dave

No problem, I want to learn how to do this anyway.

[Steve Browning]

Here is a review of the WD-800 and Subway 2x15. If you substitute the Bass 400 for the WA and the TT-800 for WD-800 you get my experience. I previously used the same Diesel 2x15 cab and now use two separate Subway 1x15s (the 2x15 wasn't available when I got my cabs).

https://www.bassgearmag.com/mesa-boogie-subway-wd-800-bass-head-and-subway-ultra-lite-2x15-vertical-bass-cab/

[dmccombe7]

Excellent review Steve. Thanks for sharing. Still not sure about cabs. 215 intrigues me but i've never used a 215 cab. The combination of a 115 and 210 is what i'm more used to over the years. 

Will need to try them when they appear in Guitar Guitar Glasgow with a bit of luck. 

Still liking the idea of the 2 channel TT800 tho.

Dave

[Steve Browning]

58 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Excellent review Steve. Thanks for sharing. Still not sure about cabs. 215 intrigues me but i've never used a 215 cab. The combination of a 115 and 210 is what i'm more used to over the years. 

Will need to try them when they appear in Guitar Guitar Glasgow with a bit of luck. 

Still liking the idea of the 2 channel TT800 tho.

Dave

Thanks Dave. I have to say, I'm very much an 'if it ain't broke' kind of chap. If you are happy with your sound then stick with that. Geography and circumstance combine to make giving my cabs a go impractical but you'd have been more than welcome to try them on a gig.

 

[dmccombe7]

11 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

Thanks Dave. I have to say, I'm very much an 'if it ain't broke' kind of chap. If you are happy with your sound then stick with that. Geography and circumstance combine to make giving my cabs a go impractical but you'd have been more than welcome to try them on a gig.

 

Thanks Steve that's an amazing offer and very much appreciated.

Guitar Guitar does have the occasional Mesa cab in so i will probably be able to try each cab individually and get a feel for them.

The PH212 is a great cab but i occasionally find it lacks a little on the top end punch and i think the215 cab might be the same. Not so much a treble top end more of the mid to hi end punch.

Historically i found the old 15" were always a little bit woolly on their own and i always added in a 210 to get what i wanted. Ideally 2 amps into the separate cabs with a more bass focused EQ into the 15 cab and a more mid focused tone into the 210 cab but that would cost an arm and a leg if i went down the Mesa route. LOL

Think i originally got that idea from a Neil Murray interview back in early 80's when he used Peavey heads. 

Dave

[scrumpymike]

Dave, I would say that a couple of modern 12" drivers plus experimenting with the amazing controls on the TT - particularly the Bright boost and balancing your HPF / Bass / Hi-Mid settings - would get you right where you want to be.  The TT sounds amazing thru my pair of Barefaced Super Compacts.

[dmccombe7]

Altho i started a new cab day topic i thought i would give this a brief update too.

Went with the TT800 and the 210 and 115 cabs. TT800 wont arrive till June and using Mpulse on exact same settings as with my PH212 cab. The 115 cab sounds very similar to the PH212 tone. The 210 has same depth but the mids are now clearer.

Agedhorse told me the Mpulse amp had a mid range scoop and that is probably why the 115 cab doesn't sound as clear in the mid range. He said i should boost the mids a touch and lo and behold he was spot on the 115 cab does produce that clear mid tone but not quite as good as the 210 cab on same amp settings.

Overall i now feel i have a full range bass rig and 1st rehearsals with the new cabs will be next Sunday at a 6hr session. 

I'm really impressed with how much depth these cabs have compared to other lightweight cabs i've tried and at circa 19-20Kg each its an easy one-handed lift for each cab.

As always i appreciate everyone's help and advice and allowing me to understand the subtle differences with the cabs. I'm happy i've made the right choice and i'd happily gig with either the 115 or 210 on its own.

Dave

[Steve Browning]

Since getting the amps and installing them in the rack and wiring them in, a bit of covid GAS descended. That and a bit of an unexpected financial bonus.

I was interested in the continued controversy surrounding different cables and any effect they may have on sound. Our mutual friend @rumblefish has demonstrated an Evidence Audio Lyric cable before and we both heard a clear difference with that cable. So, after some email correspondence with Tony at Evidence, I ordered some Monorail cable and solderless plugs to rewire the rack and to run from the pedalboard to the rack input. I then ordered three of the EA Reveal cables for the three basses going through the switcher. With Tony's help I had decided that the Forte was too much of an outlay, the Lyric was a little 'stiff' for my purpose and the Reveal had the flexibility I wanted and (to quote Tony) 99% of the performance of the Forte.

To complete the package, I ordered Siren speaker cables. All this was done through Custom Pedal Boards here in the UK (thanks to Chris Ryan for his assistance).

Just to go completely barmy (and because the amps can be left on without a speaker load) I ordered a Mike Hill mini isolator. This means that I have split the output from the tuner and both TT-800s are being fed. Having got an order for a 2 x 12 in the pipeline I will be able to run the cabs from an amp each (who knows when Wembley beckons!!).

We also took the opportunity to do a side by side comparison with his M-Pulse 600 through his Berg 2 x 12 which is a great cab in itself). At the same time comparing a number of cables to see what difference there was.

With regard to the amps, we concluded there was a minor difference but certainly not enough to worry about. The amps 'work' in different ways and so I would chalk this up as a draw. To me this just underlined the fact that the choice of the TT-800 was spot on. Again, a sizeable difference in volume with the two channels set with the same eq and switched. There will some reason for that (and I'd never do it live anyway). Just needs some tweaking to level them up so no issue.

What of the cables? We had EA Lyric and Reveal cables, a Lava cable and another (which I forget). Using the same bass and the same settings the differences were obvious. As we went up the price chain, the level of detail and balance was clear and improved with each step. Very pleasing for me, having drank heavily from the snake oil jar.

We concluded that the Lyric would be your studio cable (it's not as flexible as the Reveal), the Reveal would be your live cable. Overall, the Reveal was the winner due to it's closeness to the Lyric and the fact that it was going to be longer lasting in a stage environment. It was the better value option by a way, in my view.

I am not going to suggest the snake oil argument is dead but it is to my ears. I firmly believe that I have reached tone nirvana and all my bum notes have been freed to be heard as never before!! Rats!

 

 

[dmccombe7]

How did the Mpulse fair against the TT800 Steve ?

Sounds like the various cables made quite a difference. I've always tried to use quality cables. I have some from OBBM and some i bought thru Bass Direct when i bought my Berg cabs many moons ago. 

Mine are a combination of Proel, Klotz or Van Damme cables with Neutrik connectors.

Dave

[Steve Browning]

There was a clear sonic difference. No lack of 'heft' but a clear difference. Of course the modus operandi of each amp is different. In some senses a comparison with a WD-800 would have been expected to be a better comparison. The TT sets out to emulate a different tone stack.

Both amps sounded great though. I was perfectly happy with my M-Pulses and would have continued to be so, had I kept them. In my post I proclaimed the comparison to be a draw and I think that's a fair result and a huge thumbs up to Andy and the guys at Mesa. The ability to get a genuinely vintage sound out of state of the art package (valves notwithstanding).

The tonal difference in the cables was probably the bigger surprise. I had experienced it with Robs' Lyric cable but the clarity was very evident and unmistakable. The same with the balance across the fingerboard.

I can hear a lot of people thinking it's cobblers but I have to disagree. Whether or not you feel you can justify the expense is another matter but I figured if people who could afford to use anything chose that then there must be something in it. I am firmly in that camp now.

[dmccombe7]

Thanks Steve i'll maybe look into that. I like good quality cables but i spend more on the cab cables. I buy good quality instrument cables but never gave it a lot of thought other than they were from a reputable source or manufacturer.

I have noticed a huge difference when using my wireless against a good quality cable. Cable gives more depth of tone but i need the freedom of wireless as 70's Glam Rock and platform boots i try to avoid having cables to trip over. 😂

Dave

[three]

As an avid and gullible swallower of snake oil, I’ve been using EA Lyric HG, Forte and Siren for some years. To me, they make a difference - but not always a good one (depending on point of view) - very revealing indeed. Unfortunately, I haven’t had a chance to use mine with the TT-800 as I got caught in the supply issues. Lovely with the DB750 and Warwick PR40 combo (again, very revealing indeed)

Edited July 1, 2021 by three