Finished! A Guitar Bouzouki - (no basses were harmed in the...)

[SpondonBassed]

Norks!  I had my TLRTs back or so I thought but they're gone again.

Have a cheesy grin instead.

 

[Andyjr1515]

I need the actual bridge to work out the neck angle - and so it was time to make the bridge.  

I got hold of a bog-standard 12 string guitar bridge as much to check the peg stagger as anything.  The bouzouki bridge will end up around 10mm narrower.

 I then did a number of sketches of bridge shapes on photos of the top to see if anything jumped out relating to the overall shape.  Of all of them, this was the most pleasing - just adding more of a curve at the back to give a passing nod to the rosette shape:

  

And after some stuff with band saws, chisels, microplanes, cabinet scrapers and sandpaper, this is it in the ebony.  Bit of tidying up to do when the light's better but I think this will look quite nice:

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Andyjr1515

[SpondonBassed]

TLRTs restored.

That's a bridge just far enough!

[Andyjr1515]

25 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

TLRTs restored.

That's a bridge just far enough!

Thanks

Just put a better photo of it on the post.  The previous shot wasn't good - it's gone awfully dark here.  Lets hope that's just the thunder cloud and not pandemic oblivion creeping up...

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

oblivion creeping up...

Hadn't you noticed that we'd crossed the threshold back in March?

It's all downhill from here.  You can see why Nero allegedly fiddled while Rome burned.  But the historians reckon the actual instrument used was a bit more relevant to this thread than a fiddle:

Encyclopædia Britannica

Quote

So did Nero fiddle while Rome burned? No. Sort of. Maybe. More likely, he strummed a proto-guitar while dreaming of the new city that he hoped would arise in the fire’s ashes.

Is history about to repeat itself?  Have you a got a New Milton Keynes in mind for the world?

Have MacWombles' drive through restaurants started using the words Have a nice apocalypse instead of Have a nice day yet?  It is merely a matter of time if they haven't.

Edited July 25, 2020 by SpondonBassed

[Maude]

The bridge has just enough emphasis on the lower curve to tip its hat to the soundhole. Perfect! 

Just a quick question on bridges shapes if I may. Is a larger surface area of bridge better to help transfer string vibrations to the top board, or will a larger bridge inhibit the top vibrating by stiffening it too much? I guess a careful compromise of the two. 

[Andyjr1515]

7 minutes ago, Maude said:

The bridge has just enough emphasis on the lower curve to tip its hat to the soundhole. Perfect! 

Just a quick question on bridges shapes if I may. Is a larger surface area of bridge better to help transfer string vibrations to the top board, or will a larger bridge inhibit the top vibrating by stiffening it too much? I guess a careful compromise of the two. 

I guess so (I have no idea  )

Actually, just a guess, but I suspect it doesn't make a whole lot of difference provided the bridge area doesn't exceed the bridge plate area underneath.  The bridge is clamped pretty firmly to this plate when it is glued and therefore I am guessing that the flex wouldn't change unless and until the bridge went beyond it.  This one is well within it because it is narrower.

Feel free to add to or challenge this presumption, folks. 

[Maude]

I had to go back through the pictures but I see what you mean about the bridge plate now, and yes I agree as long as the bridge sits within the plate area it probably won't make any difference. 

It was only because I've always wondered about those big Gibson moustache bridges and whether they aid or inhibit top vibrations. As the top and bracing is kept as thin as possible to allow it to resonate and then slapping a huge thick bridge on seems counterintuitive. Whether they are to help tone or just for cosmetics. 

 

[Andyjr1515]

And to one of the mildly terrifying bits.  Is that really the body, clamped in the modified jaws of a workmate, suspended over a towel over a concrete floor and a router pushing down on it?????

Yes it is 

And I'm smiling mainly because it didn't fall out.  Or crush.  Or bruise.

But there are few other ways you can accurately cut the mortice...

And I've got to do it again soon, the other way up.  Because there are few other ways you can accurately cut the tailstock plate slot...

The workmate is a home-made version of a jig that is featured on the excellent  ObrienGuitars 'Luthier Tips du Jour Mailbag' series for cutting mortices, and neck angles and tenons.  The template is a G&W one.

The result:

But, Andy.  I thought you hated routers?

I do.  But there are times when it's pretty much the only way to do a task.  And did it go faultlessly?  Of course not.  The mortice is longer than I intended because the template slipped as I was routing.  It doesn't matter, but it confirms I hate f*****g routers!!

The same rig is used to cut the neck angle and the tenon.  For this, the neck is clamped to a board, located by a couple of pegs that fit in the trussrod slot, and hinged so I can rout different angles onto the heel:

And what angle?  Well - a straight edge on top of the fretboard should ideally just sit on top of the bridge - and then the action height is set by the saddle that will sit proud of the bridge.  And that's why I had to make the bridge first.

My straight edge is the offcut from the fretboard:

And the gap at the top of the heel in the photo below shows the angle the neck has to sit at for the straight edge to lie in the right place:

 

So I tilt the hinged plate to that angle and route that into the heel end.  And this time when I check, there's no gap at the top of the heel:

It will be actually finished by hand once the bridge is fitted, but this will get me at least into the right ball-park

So - ignoring the fretboard taper that hasn't been done yet, and the neck thickness that hasn't been done yet - it continues to progress:

 

 

 

[benh]

The craftsmanship on display in most of these build diaries on here is remarkable. It's been a bit of a pipe dream for me to build my own instrument one day, then I see a thread like this and realise my skills are sadly lacking. Lovely work!

[Andyjr1515]

1 hour ago, benh said:

The craftsmanship on display in most of these build diaries on here is remarkable. It's been a bit of a pipe dream for me to build my own instrument one day, then I see a thread like this and realise my skills are sadly lacking. Lovely work!

It's all learned from places like here...

[Si600]

I dream of the day when I stop feeling like I'm making sh!t up in my handworking, but then I suspect that being competent at everything means that it just becomes routine.

Long live the mild feeling of terror when even though you are absolutely certain it's all correct and going to work you're still not wholly convinced.

[Andyjr1515]

Over the internet, between us P & I spent a bit of time double and triple checking the intended neck depth and width.  P already has a much loved Guitar Bouzouki and ideally wants this one's neck to be just a few mm wider and just a few mm shallower.

That has meant that I can taper the neck blank widthways and depthwise.  Within a mm or so, this is how the proportions are going to look.  To my eye, quite pleasing:

And getting the depth in the right order of magnitude meant that I could rough-carve the heel - I will creep up on the final shape once the neck has been profiled.  I find the least damage I can do while removing the greatest quantity of timber is using microplanes.  I hold them scraper-wise in gloved hands rather than using a handle:

Then move onto a gooseneck cabinet scraper:

As I say, the heel shape will be worked on over a period of time, but it gives me a head start:

You can see here (although this clearly isn't carved and is a mm or so oversize) that the neck on a Bouzouki is quite a bit deeper than a guitar or bass.  

In terms of the profile, I always try to make sure - even though every instrument has its own feel - that a build has at least a comfortable feel of familiarity to the owner.  So I send a profile gauge for them to take a few profiles off their favourite players and try, as best I can, to replicate that:

The gauge is on its way to P as I type

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

Like @Jabba_the_gut says on his recent build, a question is always what to do about fret-ends.  I usually do what Jez has done - de-tang the frets, fill the tang slot and then round off the fret ends.

So what does 'de-tang' mean?  It means nipping or filing off the tang (the strip on the fretwire that hammers into the slot) at either end of the fret.  You can see that here:

  

And why would you want to do that?  Well, over time, the fretboard can sometimes dry and shrink a tiny bit and the fret ends start feeling a bit sharp.  But this is easy to fix with a small needle file and is a routine annual 'set-up' job for many guitars and basses.  The advantage of nipping the ends of the tangs, as Jez has done, is that you don't get the tang corner itself ever exposed - because that is more tricky to fix...you basically have to sand them smooth but that can impact on the neck finish.

You can put binding on the sides of the fretboard and that covers the fret slots and the tangs and the fret ends but sometimes changes the overall width.

I am also always troubled on a neck by creating a demarcation line with veneer.  Great fretboard wood; great neck wood; and then a strip (or strips) of veneer glued in between.  Should be OK but always better if you don't have to do that.

So on a few of my recent builds, I have experimented with a win-win-win method of binding.  It's worked well and so I'll be using it on this.

Basically I: detang the fret ends; fit the frets with the ends overhanging; round and finish the fret ends; add a binding with a feature strip; round off and and slim the binding.  This is what I mean:

So the frets are overhanging - to an exact measurement (easy to do - you just sand the whole fretted board edge on to get to sub-tenths accuracy); the fret ends are rounded; the binding is sanded to exact height and glued on; the binding is rounded off and slimmed a touch so it is around a mere 0.25mm proud of the fret.

So the win-win-win is that you get a demarcation line for free, you get a lovely rounded edge to your fretboard and you don't get sharp fret ends even if the board dries over the years.

Anyway, that's the theory, and it does seem to work 

I have one more thing I have to check/do before any of that but, in preparation, I have a binding that couldn't have matched the macassar better if I'd tried!:

And the same binding will go on the body edges (it's the Rocklite Sundari product)

The final thing that P and I have sorted is the headstock.

Here the intention is, if at all possible, to keep the string runs straight and to get the whole thing to fit into a standard OM/OOO size guitar case.  Happily, while I was drawing it all up, the tuners (Schaller M6 mini) arrived and so I could see if it was going to work.  I think it will.  And have room for a couple of swifts 

 

There's a few things to do and to check before I do any of this...but, anyway, that's the plan

 

 

[HazBeen]

4 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Like @Jabba_the_gut says on his recent build, a question is always what to do about fret-ends.  I usually do what Jez has done - de-tang the frets, fill the tang slot and then round off the fret ends.

So what does 'de-tang' mean?  It means nipping or filing off the tang (the strip on the fretwire that hammers into the slot) at either end of the fret.  You can see that here:

  

And why would you want to do that?  Well, over time, the fretboard can sometimes dry and shrink a tiny bit and the fret ends start feeling a bit sharp.  But this is easy to fix with a small needle file and is a routine annual 'set-up' job for many guitars and basses.  The advantage of nipping the ends of the tangs, as Jez has done, is that you don't get the tang corner itself ever exposed - because that is more tricky to fix...you basically have to sand them smooth but that can impact on the neck finish.

You can put binding on the sides of the fretboard and that covers the fret slots and the tangs and the fret ends but sometimes changes the overall width.

I am also always troubled on a neck by creating a demarcation line with veneer.  Great fretboard wood; great neck wood; and then a strip (or strips) of veneer glued in between.  Should be OK but always better if you don't have to do that.

So on a few of my recent builds, I have experimented with a win-win-win method of binding.  It's worked well and so I'll be using it on this.

Basically I: detang the fret ends; fit the frets with the ends overhanging; round and finish the fret ends; add a binding with a feature strip; round off and and slim the binding.  This is what I mean:

So the frets are overhanging - to an exact measurement (easy to do - you just sand the whole fretted board edge on to get to sub-tenths accuracy); the fret ends are rounded; the binding is sanded to exact height and glued on; the binding is rounded off and slimmed a touch so it is around a mere 0.25mm proud of the fret.

So the win-win-win is that you get a demarcation line for free, you get a lovely rounded edge to your fretboard and you don't get sharp fret ends even if the board dries over the years.

Anyway, that's the theory, and it does seem to work 

I have one more thing I have to check/do before any of that but, in preparation, I have a binding that couldn't have matched the macassar better if I'd tried!:

And the same binding will go on the body edges (it's the Rocklite Sundari product)

The final thing that P and I have sorted is the headstock.

Here the intention is, if at all possible, to keep the string runs straight and to get the whole thing to fit into a standard OM/OOO size guitar case.  Happily, while I was drawing it all up, the tuners (Schaller M6 mini) arrived and so I could see if it was going to work.  I think it will.  And have room for a couple of swifts 

 

There's a few things to do and to check before I do any of this...but, anyway, that's the plan

 

 

I am nicking this for my 5 string planned build.

[HazBeen]

On 26/07/2020 at 18:45, Andyjr1515 said:

But, Andy.  I thought you hated routers?

I do.  But there are times when it's pretty much the only way to do a task.  And did it go faultlessly?  Of course not.  The mortice is longer than I intended because the template slipped as I was routing.  It doesn't matter, but it confirms I hate f*****g routers!!

I had my own mishap yesterday, also non-consequential as it will not be visible but it is always brown pants time when doing these types of things. I actually think that my mishap and perhaps yours was cause by the template used, maybe I am wrong but all big tickets issues I have had with a router was when using an Acrylic prefab template. Never when I made the template myself out of wood..... maybe coincidence, but I am not going to be using them anymore.

Lovely looking build though mr A., proper job!

[Andyjr1515]

OK - I've come across what I think is a 'new kid on the block' in terms of guitar hardware, parts and tools.  And I'll be very irritated if you all know about them and haven't told me! 

Glued To Music - gluedtomusic.com

I had ordered the Schaller M6 mini tuners (I needed 3 sets),  all shown in stock at Gear4music (usually a reliable supplier).  After a few days got message that they were delayed.  Waited another week.  On further checking, the estimated delivery was late September!!

Gluedtomusic - in stock, received in 2 days

I wanted the improved version of Stewmac's dremel binding jig.  Tried Tonetech Luthier Supplies.  Out of stock - no estimate of when back in.

Gluedtomusic - in stock.  Received in 2 days

So a positive call out to Gluedtomusic.com - thanks, folks

And so - what is this modified binding channel cutting jig?  Well, the Stewmac one unmodified is pretty much unusable.  There is no way at all you can keep the top-heavy Dremel vertical.  And if Dremel isn't vertical, the binding channel is too deep or too shallow.  So Andyjr1515 a few years ago made a simple mod.  He glued a stick onto it.  It's here on the left:

Now obviously the CEO some enterprising concern saw this, saw that it was Andyjr1515 who had modded it and made a phone call to the Chairman.  "What...THE Andyjr1515??  Do it!  Get it into production!! Quick!!!"

OK...maybe they found the same issue and just did a better job of it   So the modded version is the one on the right.  And WHAT a difference.  Because cutting the binding channels on the top of a acoustic build is, without any doubt, THE most scary bit of any of the aspects of any of the builds I do, and THE most likely for it to go irreparably wrong.

And even with this modded jig, it was still scary.  But, other than a bit of tidying up with a very sharp chisel, it's done:

  

And why the two cuts?

Because on the inside I'm going to put some herringbone purfling, bent to shape over the bending iron:

And outside that, the Rocklite Sundari binding, complete with feature line:

Couple of things needed to be done before these are glued but they are ready to be attached.  Oh yes...and I'm going to iron them on 

 

 

  

 

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Andyjr1515

[Jabba_the_gut]

58 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

OK - I've come across what I think is a 'new kid on the block' in terms of guitar hardware, parts and tools.  And I'll be very irritated if you all know about them and haven't told me! 

Glued To Music - gluedtomusic.com

Er, sorry Andy..........I've been buying all my Gotoh tuners, fret slot files and a few other bits from them for a while and I've found them to be absolutely first class. Bad me for not mentioning it.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Jabba_the_gut

[Jabba_the_gut]

Oh, and the build is looking lovely by the way!! Interesting instrument - this will definitely need some sound files when it is done. Cheers!

[MacDaddy]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

OK - I've come across what I think is a 'new kid on the block' in terms of guitar hardware, parts and tools.  And I'll be very irritated if you all know about them and haven't told me! 

Glued To Music - gluedtomusic.com

I had ordered the Schaller M6 mini tuners (I needed 3 sets),  all shown in stock at Gear4music (usually a reliable supplier).  After a few days got message that they were delayed.  Waited another week.  On further checking, the estimated delivery was late September!!

Gluedtomusic - in stock, received in 2 days

I wanted the improved version of Stewmac's dremel binding jig.  Tried Tonetech Luthier Supplies.  Out of stock - no estimate of when back in.

Gluedtomusic - in stock.  Received in 2 days

So a positive call out to Gluedtomusic.com - thanks, folks

And so - what is this modified binding channel cutting jig?  Well, the Stewmac one unmodified is pretty much unusable.  There is no way at all you can keep the top-heavy Dremel vertical.  And if Dremel isn't vertical, the binding channel is too deep or too shallow.  So Andyjr1515 a few years ago made a simple mod.  He glued a stick onto it.  It's here on the left:

Now obviously the CEO some enterprising concern saw this, saw that it was Andyjr1515 who had modded it and made a phone call to the Chairman.  "What...THE Andyjr1515??  Do it!  Get it into production!! Quick!!!"

OK...maybe they found the same issue and just did a better job of it   So the modded version is the one on the right.  And WHAT a difference.  Because cutting the binding channels on the top of a acoustic build is, without any doubt, THE most scary bit of any of the aspects of any of the builds I do, and THE most likely for it to go irreparably wrong.

And even with this modded jig, it was still scary.  But, other than a bit of tidying up with a very sharp chisel, it's done:

  

And why the two cuts?

Because on the inside I'm going to put some herringbone purfling, bent to shape over the bending iron:

And outside that, the Rocklite Sundari binding, complete with feature line:

Couple of things needed to be done before these are glued but they are ready to be attached.  Oh yes...and I'm going to iron them on 

 

 

  

 

 

That's all well and good, but is it really anything roll of gaffa tape couldn't sort? 😉

[Andyjr1515]

For the herringbone purfling, the gaffa tape it is, @MacDaddy    Or at least the masking tape.  And not an iron in sight - yet!

Before I glue the binding, I first have to rout the slot for the end graft - and before I do that I need to decide what I'm going to do for the end graft - and I have to make sure that the corners of the binding slot are absolutely square and that the sides of the binding slot are absolutely flush with the herringbone.  I do that with a tiny square wood block with some emery cloth stuck to it, a very sharp chisel and check all is OK all the way round with an offcut of the binding:

 

 

Next job is sorting the end-graft and then I can get the iron out and glue the binding

 

Oh...and as @Si600 is bound to ask what an end graft is...it's this bit at the back! 

[pete.young]

4 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

For the herringbone purfling, the gaffa tape it is, @MacDaddy    Or at least the masking tape.  And not an iron in sight - yet!

 

I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when Mrs Andyjr1515 finds out what's happened to her iron!

[Stub Mandrel]

On 26/07/2020 at 18:24, benh said:

The craftsmanship on display in most of these build diaries on here is remarkable. It's been a bit of a pipe dream for me to build my own instrument one day, then I see a thread like this and realise my skills are sadly lacking. Lovely work!

Tackle a kit, it's much less challenging but still really satisfying!

[benh]

10 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Tackle a kit, it's much less challenging but still really satisfying!

Had my eye on one of the Thomann kits for a while, may well have a go one of these days!

[Andyjr1515]

28 minutes ago, benh said:

Had my eye on one of the Thomann kits for a while, may well have a go one of these days!

There are some great kits about and it's a great, great way of starting to understand the geometry and what matters and what doesn't matter for both solids and acoustics.  And I mean, if you're talking acoustic...Martin do some superb kits...