Sterling Ray 4 Neck Stability

[thegummy]

I have a Sterling Ray 4 (from the range previously known as the Sterling SUB) and it seems to be quite susceptible to the neck's relief shifting. I generally play it most days, at least for a short time but a few times now I've picked it up and the neck has either bowed so the action became too high or, just now, the neck seems to have straightened as the action is too low and the strings are buzzing on the frets.

Has anyone else noticed this problem with this particular model? I've never had this happen with any other instruments I have, I've had them maybe very slightly change over many months and need the truss rod adjusting but not as frequently or as much as this.

It's the only budget instrument I've bought; is there possibly something about the neck that allows it to be so cheap but also makes it less stable?

It is also the only MM style bass I've had though it seems unlikely it could be an inherent problem with the design with it being such a popular classic bass and with the standard ones costing quite a bit.

Any similar (or contrary) experiences with these basses?

[songofthewind]

If you mean the Sterling SUB Ray 4, I have one, and experience no problems with the neck or truss rod.

[ezbass]

I have some basses that seem to always seem to need a tweak and others that don’t. Providing it’s not massive adjustments, I wouldn’t be too concerned.

[thegummy]

15 hours ago, songofthewind said:

If you mean the Sterling SUB Ray 4, I have one, and experience no problems with the neck or truss rod.

It's the same model but they've renamed it and taken the "SUB" part out so it's just called the Ray 4 now. I'm not sure if they've changed anything about the actual bass; I don't think they have.

Have you had it quite a while without any problems?

I wonder if I should ask for a swap if it's just this specific one that's prone to the neck bowing and "unbowing".

[Nebadon2000]

I had same problem with 2018 SBMM Stingray 34QM. Constantly adjusting neck relief; Bass was in climate controlled environment at all times. 

After a few months it did get longer between adjustments; once or twice a month as opposed to once or twice a week.

[thegummy]

1 hour ago, Nebadon2000 said:

I had same problem with 2018 SBMM Stingray 34QM. Constantly adjusting neck relief; Bass was in climate controlled environment at all times. 

After a few months it did get longer between adjustments; once or twice a month as opposed to once or twice a week.

That's a bit worrying, thanks for sharing.

If I only had basses I might wonder if the fact it has the skinniest neck of all my basses is the reason behind this but I also have guitars and they're just as skinny (though shorter).

As a silver lining, Stingrays have the most convenient truss rod access I've ever seen, just turn the wheel while everything's still on. I dread to think if my 50s reissue P had this problem I'd constantly be having to dismantle the entire bass!

[pineweasel]

Does the Ray 34 have the oil & wax neck finish? This does leave the wood more exposed to humidity changes than a poly coat. I’ve noticed it with my own Stingray. 

[thegummy]

49 minutes ago, pineweasel said:

Does the Ray 34 have the oil & wax neck finish? This does leave the wood more exposed to humidity changes than a poly coat. I’ve noticed it with my own Stingray. 

The specs say the neck has a "satin finish" but it feels and looks like bare wood to me. I doubt it is though, I believe them when they say they use a satin finish but it must be quite thin - maybe that has something to do with it?

P.S. not being pedantic at all and I obviously knew what you were asking but just to clarify for the avoidance of any confusion, it's the Ray 4 that I have and am referring to

[gafbass02]

I had the same issue with a ray 34ca

Edited December 27, 2021 by gafbass02

[songofthewind]

8 hours ago, thegummy said:

It's the same model but they've renamed it and taken the "SUB" part out so it's just called the Ray 4 now. I'm not sure if they've changed anything about the actual bass; I don't think they have.

Have you had it quite a while without any problems?

I wonder if I should ask for a swap if it's just this specific one that's prone to the neck bowing and "unbowing".

I’ve had it about two years, and got it second hand. No problems.

[Delberthot]

I'd be concerned about any bass that has a neck that moves without changing gauge of strings or subjecting it to extreme temperatures or humidity. I've never had a bass where the neck has moved without something obvious causing it like the above.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Delberthot

[ezbass]

The weather here is so variable and my stuff is just in an ordinary room with no climate control (never had such a luxury) that some movement seems inevitable. It’s never more that 1/8th - 1/4 turn at most for me. Anymore than that and I’d have concerns.

[Nebadon2000]

8 hours ago, thegummy said:

That's a bit worrying, thanks for sharing.

If I only had basses I might wonder if the fact it has the skinniest neck of all my basses is the reason behind this but I also have guitars and they're just as skinny (though shorter).

As a silver lining, Stingrays have the most convenient truss rod access I've ever seen, just turn the wheel while everything's still on. I dread to think if my 50s reissue P had this problem I'd constantly be having to dismantle the entire bass!

The SBMM 34QM  has the 1.5" smaller 'width' neck [standard has 1.7] not sure if it's 'thinner.'

[thegummy]

There have been a few unusually hot days lately so could be that.

I'm actually wondering if the truss rod wheel that's so easy to adjust could also be more likely to move on its own? Maybe not.

Have several other basses and a few guitars and never noticed such big changes in such a short time until this one.

[Andyjr1515]

15 hours ago, thegummy said:

There have been a few unusually hot days lately so could be that.

I'm actually wondering if the truss rod wheel that's so easy to adjust could also be more likely to move on its own? Maybe not.

Have several other basses and a few guitars and never noticed such big changes in such a short time until this one.

I think that the unusual flex in temperature and humidity lately is more the issue than any inherent problem with your bass.

I'm pretty certain that the Sub4 has a 'traditional' single rod trussrod.  There is nothing at all wrong with that, but single rod trussrods are impacted more by temperature change and humidity change than the more modern (but heavier) double-bar rods.

With the single bar, if it gets warmer, the bar expands and if it gets more humid, the exposed timber that the nut presses against changes shape which affects the amount of pull.  That can both be pulling in the same direction or in opposite directions depending on the actual weather.  

In recent weeks and in the UK, though, I suspect that the temperature change would have caused the bigger impact.  If I'm right (and assuming you tuned to pitch in both cases), then when it was warm your relief got bigger and when it was cool your relief got tighter? 

I think in the UK, humidity changes are less pronounced (it's very humid or it's very very humid or it's raining ) but we have had unusually wide changes in temperature recently and - if your house is anything like ours - it has been enough to affect the temperature in the house too.

And why is a double-bar rod not affected as much?  Because the bend of the rod is determined by the difference in length of the two rods (or rod and bar in some designs).  So if one bar expands, then the other bar is going to expand as well and curve remains largely unaffected.   So if your other basses have two-bar rods, then yes, they won't have been affected in the same way.

Leastways, that's my guess.  

 

[miles'tone]

On 15/06/2020 at 23:29, thegummy said:

It's the same model but they've renamed it and taken the "SUB" part out so it's just called the Ray 4 now. I'm not sure if they've changed anything about the actual bass; I don't think they have.

Have you had it quite a while without any problems?

I wonder if I should ask for a swap if it's just this specific one that's prone to the neck bowing and "unbowing".

They have changed the fingerboard radius from 12" on the old Sub Ray 4 to 9.5" on the newer Sterling Stingray 4. I think that's the only difference though.

[thegummy]

16 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I think that the unusual flex in temperature and humidity lately is more the issue than any inherent problem with your bass.

I'm pretty certain that the Sub4 has a 'traditional' single rod trussrod.  There is nothing at all wrong with that, but single rod trussrods are impacted more by temperature change and humidity change than the more modern (but heavier) double-bar rods.

With the single bar, if it gets warmer, the bar expands and if it gets more humid, the exposed timber that the nut presses against changes shape which affects the amount of pull.  That can both be pulling in the same direction or in opposite directions depending on the actual weather.  

In recent weeks and in the UK, though, I suspect that the temperature change would have caused the bigger impact.  If I'm right (and assuming you tuned to pitch in both cases), then when it was warm your relief got bigger and when it was cool your relief got tighter? 

I think in the UK, humidity changes are less pronounced (it's very humid or it's very very humid or it's raining ) but we have had unusually wide changes in temperature recently and - if your house is anything like ours - it has been enough to affect the temperature in the house too.

And why is a double-bar rod not affected as much?  Because the bend of the rod is determined by the difference in length of the two rods (or rod and bar in some designs).  So if one bar expands, then the other bar is going to expand as well and curve remains largely unaffected.   So if your other basses have two-bar rods, then yes, they won't have been affected in the same way.

Leastways, that's my guess.  

 

Really appreciate this post mate - very informative.

When you say "double bar rods" are you referring to bi-flex truss rods or something else?

If you do mean bi-flex then that could explain why my 6 string guitars haven't been affected as they're American Strats with bi-flex truss rods. My Schecter bass also has that and my 50s Precision re-issue doesn't but the neck is significantly more chunky than the Stingray.

I do hope it has been the recent weather fluctuation (I can't remember which direction corresponded with which temperature) because, as you point out, it's not common to have them here so would mean having to adjust it less often.

If I remember I'll post back on this thread in a few months with an update to say if it has happened again etc. - just in case any potential Ray 4 buyers find it during research.

[Andyjr1515]

No - actually, Fender Bi-flex is a single rod.  They block the nut from screwing right out which means that when you 'loosen' beyond the rod being straight, it then starts bending the other way.

So yes, you would expect those to also be affected more than other types - but there can be other variables.  It may use a different steel for the rod or the necks maybe naturally stiffer (I presume the Fenders are maple - the Sterling?) - and I'm sure there are others!

Is the Schecter actually the Fender system or do they just use the term?  I would have thought that would have used a two-rod system but I might be wrong.  What model is it?

Yes, keep us all informed...useful info whatever the outcome

Edited June 18, 2020 by Andyjr1515

[thegummy]

On 18/06/2020 at 08:14, Andyjr1515 said:

No - actually, Fender Bi-flex is a single rod.  They block the nut from screwing right out which means that when you 'loosen' beyond the rod being straight, it then starts bending the other way.

So yes, you would expect those to also be affected more than other types - but there can be other variables.  It may use a different steel for the rod or the necks maybe naturally stiffer (I presume the Fenders are maple - the Sterling?) - and I'm sure there are others!

Is the Schecter actually the Fender system or do they just use the term?  I would have thought that would have used a two-rod system but I might be wrong.  What model is it?

Yes, keep us all informed...useful info whatever the outcome

All the basses are maple necks with maple fretboards.

The Schecter specs use the term "2-way" adjustable truss rod - no idea if that's the same as Fender's bi-flex, the two-rod setup you mentioned or something else still.

Let's hope I post back in a few months and say it hasn't happened again so can put it down to the weather fluctuations!

[Andyjr1515]

The Schecter, I am sure, will be dual rod.

 

[thegummy]

5 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

The Schecter, I am sure, will be dual rod.

 

Forgot to mention it's the Diamond J (not to be confused with Diamond J Plus) if anyone knows if that is dual rod or not

[Delberthot]

Would I be right in thinking that the basses that are suffering changes due to the change in temperature are out on stands near a window or door?

I'm just thinking that a bass in a hard case or even a gig bag shouldn't shift unless you leave it out in the sun or cold for a long period of time. I've left basses in a car in the middle of summer and when I unzipped one of the bags to check, the bass still felt cool to touch

[thegummy]

1 hour ago, Delberthot said:

Would I be right in thinking that the basses that are suffering changes due to the change in temperature are out on stands near a window or door?

I'm just thinking that a bass in a hard case or even a gig bag shouldn't shift unless you leave it out in the sun or cold for a long period of time. I've left basses in a car in the middle of summer and when I unzipped one of the bags to check, the bass still felt cool to touch

All the basses and guitars are on a rack stand (not in cases) but it's not near a window or a door.

Coincidentally I was just this minute reading an old forum thread that I had Googled and it briefly got side tracked in to the "age old debate" about whether to keep basses in cases or on a stand lol.

I'm very big on the stand option. I have a friend who was once trying to learn guitar and he kept it stored away in a case and I told him he'd play it much more if it was just sitting out or on a stand. E.g. If I'm waiting for something to load on my computer or even just watching a programme I'll often grab a bass and play for a bit. I think I'd be less likely to if they weren't sitting there catching my eye and available to grab.

[Delberthot]

I would completely agree with that. I do have a  cheap bass on a stand in the sitting room but my gigging basses live in their gig bags in the hall beside my other gear. 

My reasoning being that they're protected from most temperature changes, the strings last longer and they don't get dusty meaning that I don't have to clean them as often

[Pappabass]

Sorry to bring a old post back to life, is the wood grain on the back of the neck straight up & down? Or does it curve? See attached image. This one curves on the side. I recently read where if the grain runs the length of the neck without curves it is more stable.