The Short Scale Bass Appreciation Society!

[Woodinblack]

28 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Yes, as I specifically pointed out in the post you quote me for you are pointing out the basses that are not statistically representative, the exceptions, that doesn't proof anything and not how statistics work, as I wrote:

 

"If you don't believe me then try to look up the specs of 100 (to get a reasonably actual statistically valid number) random current production 4 string bass models, distributed about equally over different brands/manufactures, without deliberately going for those you already know got a different string spacing than 19mm at the bridge (to avoid coloring the statistics subjectively), and do the statistics yourself."

 

 

And I was trying to point out that was not possible for me to do. If you have done it, fine, I will accept it, and I do accept that as most basses are fender copies, it probably is true. I was mentioning it isn't possible for me to know.

 

28 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Those you pointed out doesn't even make up a very high percentage compared to the entire market, especially not when some of the models by some of those brands you mention even actually does also feature 19mm string spacing at bridge.

 

They don't make a high percentage of the market, which is what I was asking if it was models or sales, which you didn't answer.

 

28 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

And that Ibanez number is even just totally made up, all their current production short scale 4 string bass models features 19mm string spacing at bridge

 

ok, I didn' tknow they had done that

 

28 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

You forgot Danelectro by the way with 16.5mm string spacing at bridge.

 

I literally know nothing about danelectros (and am fairly happy with that!)

[Baloney Balderdash]

18 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

And I was trying to point out that was not possible for me to do. If you have done it, fine, I will accept it, and I do accept that as most basses are fender copies, it probably is true. I was mentioning it isn't possible for me to know.

 

 

They don't make a high percentage of the market, which is what I was asking if it was models or sales, which you didn't answer.

 

 

ok, I didn' tknow they had done that

 

 

I literally know nothing about danelectros (and am fairly happy with that!)

In that case I don't understand what this argument is about, to me it looked like you had a problem and was objecting with/over me me using the term "most common".

 

And both I am pretty certain, that is both percentage of all all 4 string bass models and percentage of 4 string basses sold, you might have a point specifically with 4 string short scale basses sold though, I wouldn't know that for sure, but my best guess is that 19mm string spacing at bridge in this specific context would actually still be most common. 

 

Regardless overall and as general notion claiming that 19mm string spacing at the bridge on 4 string basses being most common would still be correct however, which is what I actually intended it to read as (and honestly I don't think I gave an impression of otherwise being the case either in my original reply).

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Baloney Balderdash

[Woodinblack]

6 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

In that case I don't understand what this argument is about, to me it like you had a problem and was objecting with/over me me using the term "most common".

 

No problem, I just asked what you meant, it didn't seem that controversial.

 

6 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

And both I would think, that is both percentage of all all 4 string bass models and percentage of 4 string basses sold, you might have a point specifically with 4 string short scale basses sold though, but I don't know that, but my best guess is that 19mm string spacing at bridge would still be most common. 

 

ok, that was what I was asking. I do suspect less than 19 is more common on Short Scales (which is this threads subject), but that wasn't specified anyway, and I would say that for long scale basses I would agree that most 4 string basses you would meet in the wild would be 19.

 

[bertbass]

3 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

but my best guess is that 19mm string spacing at bridge would still be most common. 

My point was that it is now but wasn't in the 60s.  If you consider the short scale basses that were made in the 60s, most of them did not have 19mm string spacing.  British companies like Burns, Watkins / Wem, Vox. European companies, Hofner, Hagstrom, Eko.  US companies Danelectro, Gibson, Epiphone to name but a few, all made short scale basses to scale.  Now that short scale is popular again, no attempt has been made to scale the basses down, They've only shortened the neck length and used a standard bridge and pickup(s) because that's easier than redesigning them and they are plentiful.

[Obrienp]

2 hours ago, bertbass said:

My point was that it is now but wasn't in the 60s.  If you consider the short scale basses that were made in the 60s, most of them did not have 19mm string spacing.  British companies like Burns, Watkins / Wem, Vox. European companies, Hofner, Hagstrom, Eko.  US companies Danelectro, Gibson, Epiphone to name but a few, all made short scale basses to scale.  Now that short scale is popular again, no attempt has been made to scale the basses down, They've only shortened the neck length and used a standard bridge and pickup(s) because that's easier than redesigning them and they are plentiful.

That’s a good point. The horrible Vox Clubman I had as a teenager, definitely had narrower bridge spacing than 19mm  (also guitar machine heads like Hofner) and I can imagine the same applied to the other European makes you mention. In contrast my newish Vox Starstream H1 has 19mm spacing and a standard Stingray style pickup, which as you point out means the use of plentiful, and more importantly, cheap components.
 

I suspect cash is the the important driver here, more than economising on design flair/effort: the Startstream can hardly be considered conventional from a design perspective. Huge generalisation I know but traditionally short scale basses were synonymous with “student” instruments (Gibson being a notable exception) and therefore, they needed to be cheap. That seems to have carried over to the present day but perhaps is fading, as premium short scales are becoming more common: viz Nordstrand, Maruszczyk, Sandberg, etc. Nordstrand made the effort and had Hipshot make a custom 16.5 spacing bridge but the others just seem to use the common parts bin. Maybe this is because a lot of them are reduced scale versions of existing models, rather than uniquely short scale offerings.

 

I guess another argument might be that players moving from full scale feel more comfortable with the string spacing they had on their big boy basses. This doesn’t really excuse not scaling down the body though: viz the Ibanez EHBs and there are other culprits out there. In the case of the Ibanez EHBs they get away with it, as weight and balance are fine but with some you end up with unnecessary weight, bulk and poor balance.

[King Tut]

Is this the right room for an argument?!

[Guest gazzatriumph]

Both my short scales are 19mm.

Fender MIM mustang and custom made Maruszczyk you could chose a different spacing but 19mm was the standard.

Edited August 10, 2022 by gazzatriumph

[Guest gazzatriumph]

48 minutes ago, King Tut said:

Is this the right room for an argument?!

There's only one way to settle it FIGHT !!!!

[bertbass]

Don't forget that in the 60s everything was new and exciting including the basses and it was also virtually impossible to get Fender basses in the UK.  Other manufacturers set the standards.  60 odd years later and Fender designs seem to rule and most others have gone by the wayside although they keep making comebacks.  You can't keep a good bass down.

 

Try to buy a bridge and pickups that are not 19mm spacing and not only are they hard to find but also expensive, but they are out there, Retrovibe for one.

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, gazzatriumph said:

Both my short scales are 19mm.

Fender MIM mustang and custom made Maruszczyk

 

Odd with the mustang - they seem to vary a lot with models, they were traditionally 17.5mm, so the Classic Vibe mustang I have is the same as that, and the MiM 'vintage' is 18.5mm (ish)

 

Obviously your Maruszczyk is whatever you specified, mine is 16.5mm! 

[Guest gazzatriumph]

47 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Odd with the mustang - they seem to vary a lot with models, they were traditionally 17.5mm, so the Classic Vibe mustang I have is the same as that, and the MiM 'vintage' is 18.5mm (ish)

 

Obviously your Maruszczyk is whatever you specified, mine is 16.5mm! 

How you finding the Maruszczyk and are you a stranglers fan

Edited August 10, 2022 by gazzatriumph

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, gazzatriumph said:

How you finding the Maruszczyk and are you a stranglers fan

It's one of my favourites (although it needs resetting up at the moment), and I am not really bothered about the stranglers either way, although I have seen them a couple of times.

[Obrienp]

20 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Obviously your Maruszczyk is whatever you specified, mine is 16.5mm! 

As a matter of interest did you order direct with Maruszczyk/Public Peace, or through Bass Direct?  Just wondering what is the best way to do it from a cost/lack of customs hassles perspective.

[fretmeister]

There's a Lionel on ebay at the moment at a good starting price.

 

I don't know the seller.

 

If I hadn't already ordered a new one (8 months to go!) I'd be all over this.

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175380368113?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l3160&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=ccdce764b5e443c19f2f458ac74c8cc2&bu=43119054589&ut=RU&exe=0&ext=0&osub=-1~1&crd=20220811070706&segname=11021

 

[Woodinblack]

45 minutes ago, Obrienp said:

As a matter of interest did you order direct with Maruszczyk/Public Peace, or through Bass Direct?  Just wondering what is the best way to do it from a cost/lack of customs hassles perspective.

 

Mine is older - right on the brexit vote (second half cost £100 more than the first half!), and I ordered directly with him, ie, this was even before the configurator. I wrote and said I want this, like this, in this colour, with a neck that has these dimensions, and he replied do you want these / these and those on it, and we ended up at a spec, and that is what I got.

You can still do it like that, the long winded way, or you can do the bass direct.

Whether you want to go with bass direct depends on a couple of things. if something that is what you want is there, its a no brainer, although I am not a great fan of bass direct, they are a hell of a lot easier to deal with than Mr Maruszcyk himself if there is an issue, which there normally isn't. But if there was it can be a bit of a pain.

However, if they don't do what you want (and I would have never got mine off the shelf), then you don't have a choice!

[Osiris]

8 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

There's a Lionel on ebay at the moment at a good starting price.

 

I don't know the seller.

 

If I hadn't already ordered a new one (8 months to go!) I'd be all over this.

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175380368113?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l3160&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=ccdce764b5e443c19f2f458ac74c8cc2&bu=43119054589&ut=RU&exe=0&ext=0&osub=-1~1&crd=20220811070706&segname=11021

 

 

It's a shame that it's in turdburst otherwise I might have been tempted to buy it for the all maple neck to swap out with my all black Lionel and had this as a(nother) backup, but I couldn't live with that finish. 

[Guest gazzatriumph]

3 hours ago, Obrienp said:

As a matter of interest did you order direct with Maruszczyk/Public Peace, or through Bass Direct?  Just wondering what is the best way to do it from a cost/lack of customs hassles perspective.

I got my custom made one through Bass Direct it went through smoothly, I think it may be cheaper that way also (customs, tax) only had mine a month took 4 months for a custom build. You can use the configurator and email it to Bass Direct and they will take a deposit and order for you.

[Obrienp]

Thanks for the info on Maruszczyk ordering folks. Unfortunately, recent unexpected expense means it is not likely to happen for a bit but it is good to know how to go about it.

[scrumpymike]

Having had a shed-load of Maru's and one Lionel (which I stupidly sold), I'd go for a Sandy every time.

[scrumpymike]

Just reminiscing - which I do a lot nowadays (can't say the same for remembering unfortunately!). When I bought my first bass in 1964, I knew nothing about scale lengths, string spacing or indeed anything else. As luck would have it, the only bass our local guitar shop had in my price range was a s-s Watkins Rapier. When I later understood that s-s was my thing, the WEM was followed by a series of Gibsons.

 

My point is that, if I'd started on a standard scale, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have persevered with the bass to become the player I am today: vastly experienced but still mediocre 🙂

[barrycreed]

Any love these days for the Gibson SG bass? No issues with the floppy E? 

[scrumpymike]

29 minutes ago, barrycreed said:

Any love these days for the Gibson SG bass? No issues with the floppy E? 

I bought a new SG re-issue, MY 2008 for just under a grand IIRC, that I absolutely loved - except for the slight neck-dive, which is just a personal thing with me. Also, while the pups and controls definitely lifted it well out of 'one trick pony' territory, I felt I needed something with a broader tonal range as I was doing all sorts of different stuff at the time. By then, I'd got at least 5 years of happy gigging from it though.

 

Re bottom E, it was fine and I was using relatively low-tension rounds.

Edited August 12, 2022 by scrumpymike

[wrinkleygit]

Used to have a ‘73 Gibson EB0 strung with Labella low tension flats, had no problem with the low E.

[barrycreed]

I had the special I think it was called, a few years ago. Black with the thin finish. Sold it but am tempted to get the standard again. 

I have the EB0 Epiphone with flat wounds, an upgraded pickup and brass nut and its a brilliant little thing so maybe the SG would be a waste of a purchase! 

[scrumpymike]

1 hour ago, barrycreed said:

I had the special I think it was called, a few years ago. Black with the thin finish. Sold it but am tempted to get the standard again. 

I have the EB0 Epiphone with flat wounds, an upgraded pickup and brass nut and its a brilliant little thing so maybe the SG would be a waste of a purchase! 

I'd be tempted to stick with the Epiphone.