Pubs opening July 4th - Gigs?

[Al Krow]

Slightly shocking stats:

Around 100 Covid-19 fatalities in the UK for under 30s, which is just 0.3% of the total.

93% of all fatalities are in the 60+ age group

Is it time to let the youngsters get on with their lives (and those most at risk to take greater precautions) part of which will be to get live music up and running again?

[Muzz]

So the Government article says loud music makes people raise their voices? The loudest pubs on the planet are Wetherspoons, and they have no background music at all...'Go to the pub but keep your voice down'? It's nonsense...

[Muzz]

On 24/06/2020 at 13:58, Happy Jack said:

...there's no actual law that actually requires so-called musicians to make excessive noise.

Quiet music is very often good music.

Challenge accepted... 😁

[Cuzzie]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Slightly shocking stats:

Around 100 Covid-19 fatalities in the UK for under 30s, which is just 0.3% of the total.

93% of all fatalities are in the 60+ age group

Is it time to let the youngsters get on with their lives (and those most at risk to take greater precautions) part of which will be to get live music up and running again?

It slightly misses the point that if these young people though less susceptible become carriers, they are likely to have parents, relatives, grandparents, workmates in the vulnerable or over 60 group.

Yes they may not be affected, but others may and probably will be if it is spread around

As mentioned earlier on these posts, it’s not just fatalities, the the morbidity which can be life long.

This remains a difficult problem.
I don’t have the solutions, but all angles need to be considered 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Cuzzie

[Dad3353]

When motor cars became a 'thing', those in the horses trade had to either change horses, or specialise, or suck it up. Not saying that this show is over (no fat lady as yet...), but it could be that there's a radical 'step change' just over the horizon. It might be wise to start getting used to stuff having changed since this time last year, and last year's stuff might not be back for a while, if at all. I don't wish to be overly pessimistic; just suggesting a Reality check. 

[FinnDave]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Slightly shocking stats:

Around 100 Covid-19 fatalities in the UK for under 30s, which is just 0.3% of the total.

93% of all fatalities are in the 60+ age group

Is it time to let the youngsters get on with their lives (and those most at risk to take greater precautions) part of which will be to get live music up and running again?

Which does slightly overlook the fact that there's quite a few of us on here who are over over 60 ourselves!

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

Which does slightly overlook the fact that there's quite a few of us on here who are over over 60 ourselves!

Nah - I'm very aware that we're largely an older crew! It's just that we are sacrificing our kids futures at the alter of our own safety. Gotta get the balance right.

[louisthebass]

5 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

When motor cars became a 'thing', those in the horses trade had to either change horses, or specialise, or suck it up. Not saying that this show is over (no fat lady as yet...), but it could be that there's a radical 'step change' just over the horizon. It might be wise to start getting used to stuff having changed since this time last year, and last year's stuff might not be back for a while, if at all. I don't wish to be overly pessimistic; just suggesting a Reality check. 

The longer this thing goes on, the more I'm inclined to agree with this statement although I'm still clinging on in hope that Level 1 will be reached eventually. Getting together with fellow musicians was (is) something that I really looked forward to, and now that could potentially go out the window for a very long time, I wonder what on earth I would do next? ☹️

[Cuzzie]

2 minutes ago, louisthebass said:

The longer this thing goes on, the more I'm inclined to agree with this statement although I'm still clinging on in hope that Level 1 will be reached eventually. Getting together with fellow musicians was (is) something that I really looked forward to, and now that could potentially go out the window for a very long time, I wonder what on earth I would do next? ☹️

It’s difficult, but if we take live performing out of the equation, it all depends what kind of musicians you play with Or bands you are in.

The only people I play with are mates, and good mates at that - we all trust each other and are doing the right thing in our respective bubbles, in fact because of my job I am probably the biggest risk.

But.......If you have this level of trust with band mates, then it’s conceivable to meet and jam and play around during this time I would imagine

[louisthebass]

49 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

It’s difficult, but if we take live performing out of the equation, it all depends what kind of musicians you play with Or bands you are in.

The only people I play with are mates, and good mates at that - we all trust each other and are doing the right thing in our respective bubbles, in fact because of my job I am probably the biggest risk.

But.......If you have this level of trust with band mates, then it’s conceivable to meet and jam and play around during this time I would imagine

I think that's the thing about it - all the guys I play with I class as really good friends, and I'm hoping that at some point I'll be playing alongside them in close proximity again. In both bands it's agreed that things are on ice for the foreseeable..

Although the "virtual" online jam programmes are supposed to enable musicians to play together in isolation, from what I've read there isn't one that actually works in "real" time. Frustrating.

[Dad3353]

I don't see much of a problem playing with friends, even in an enclosed environment, as long as all are free of this virus stuff. That's quite a different affair from 'playing out', with an audience. We're rehearsing, in a rather small loft (five of us; three from this household and two close friends...). I'm on the fragile side of the age divide, but the chances of catching anything in our locality are very slim indeed, so...
I'd be much more circumspect if gigging was on the cards; as it happens, we don't (or very rarely...) gig anyway. 

[chris_b]

After the negative reaction to my post, seems like some of you are coming around.

In the UK there are 12 million people aged 65 and over. The country can't stay locked down for the length of time that it's going to take to develop a vaccine and then make enough to treat 12 million people.

[Dad3353]

5 minutes ago, chris_b said:

After the negative reaction to my post, seems like some of you are coming around.

In the UK there are 12 million people aged 65 and over. The country can't stay locked down for the length of time that it's going to take to develop a vaccine and then make enough to treat 12 million people.

I'm not sure that I understand what it is you're getting at. Out with it, man; out with it..! 

[Monkey Steve]

11 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

I don't see much of a problem playing with friends, even in an enclosed environment, as long as all are free of this virus stuff. That's quite a different affair from 'playing out', with an audience. We're rehearsing, in a rather small loft (five of us; three from this household and two close friends...). I'm on the fragile side of the age divide, but the chances of catching anything in our locality are very slim indeed, so...
I'd be much more circumspect if gigging was on the cards; as it happens, we don't (or very rarely...) gig anyway. 

I think the trouble is that any of you might have the virus without showing any symptoms for the first week, or might have a very mild case (certainly there is anecdotal evidence of individuals testing positive for Covid-19 or having the antibodies which indicate that they have had it, without having noticed any ill effects)

I've noticed within my mates, who are trying to organise some get togethers in London now that the pubs are reopening, that there seems to be an assumption that somehow you won't catch it off your friends, like it is being spread deliberately by people who know they are ill but are recklessly ignoring distancing.  One of the group very bluntly pointed out that he wasn't leaving the house any time soon (he has a vulnerable child with health issues and the family have been told to stay in until further notice) and perhaps the organiser, who has quite bad asthma and Type 2 Diabetes, should be a bit less cavalier about his and everybody else's health

Obviously it's different for everybody

[ubit]

With all the protests and raves and now the idiots jamming onto the beaches, I think any ban on gatherings is a waste of time. We are going to see a second wave of this virus I reckon. Long before the relaxing of conditions were announced, I was seeing a much higher amount of people on the go. The first two weeks of lockdown you wouldn't see a soul on the streets. If you drove through my town you might see two other cars. Now it's like normal again, with queues at traffic lights and junctions.

[Cuzzie]

1 minute ago, Monkey Steve said:

I think the trouble is that any of you might have the virus without showing any symptoms for the first week, or might have a very mild case (certainly there is anecdotal evidence of individuals testing positive for Covid-19 or having the antibodies which indicate that they have had it, without having noticed any ill effects)

I've noticed within my mates, who are trying to organise some get togethers in London now that the pubs are reopening, that there seems to be an assumption that somehow you won't catch it off your friends, like it is being spread deliberately by people who know they are ill but are recklessly ignoring distancing.  One of the group very bluntly pointed out that he wasn't leaving the house any time soon (he has a vulnerable child with health issues and the family have been told to stay in until further notice) and perhaps the organiser, who has quite bad asthma and Type 2 Diabetes, should be a bit less cavalier about his and everybody else's health

Obviously it's different for everybody

I think that is precisely the key and depends on the level of trust.

If for example you have 3 people Who have been vigilantly shielding, going to someone’s garage to jam is probably ok. Similarly if you have 3 people who are careful but are frontline staff with an equal exposure risk, then again it’s probably ok, it’s a many convoluted thing, but could work with the right crew.

[ClassicVibes]

Can we try and keep this on topic guys and not make it a Covid thread part 2? Thanks. 

[Cuzzie]

1 minute ago, ubit said:

With all the protests and raves and now the idiots jamming onto the beaches, I think any ban on gatherings is a waste of time. We are going to see a second wave of this virus I reckon. Long before the relaxing of conditions were announced, I was seeing a much higher amount of people on the go. The first two weeks of lockdown you wouldn't see a soul on the streets. If you drove through my town you might see two other cars. Now it's like normal again, with queues at traffic lights and junctions.

The protests will be key, it could be seen as a ‘testing’ bed. If approx 2-3 weeks after the protest there is not a steep second wave rise, and I suggest waiting another 4-6 weeks or so after that for people seeing relatives/friends  to check for another wave in the non-protest Group it should give us some idea.

[Dad3353]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

I think the trouble is...

All this is entirely true and sensible. In our region of rural France, which already has a very low level of cases, the buddies I mentioned are, themselves, very cautious; far from 'cavalier' in this regard. I understand that Risk Zero does not exist; it has to be weighed up for individual circumstances, and, in our view, for our situation, is acceptable. Others will have completely different choices to make; that's normal. 

[Cuzzie]

Just now, ClassicVibes said:

Can we try and keep this on topic guys and not make it a Covid thread part 2? Thanks. 

Will do, and I get what you are saying, but part of the last few posts were exploring trying to get people to play together safely, and the others about trying to predict when things could change and we could reliably decrease anxiety of playing out live whatever the gov say. 

[PaulWarning]

there's a lot of things to consider, whether you're at risk, whether anybody you're in contact is at risk and what the infection rate is like in your area, as well as what sort of job your band mates do, so we all have to make our own assessment as to what we feel comfortable with

[Lozz196]

The thing is, and even though it might be annoying to us all, not having gigs at present is still minimising risk. Sure not by much given everything else happening, but it is still a reduction which might save lives. 

[Muppet]

I know of one place in my gigging circle that is still planning on putting on a band outdoor on 4th July.  All others (including the one my band was booked for) are no longer going ahead since reviewing the guidelines. Interestingly the one place that is still going ahead is saying "well, they're only guidelines, we'll be ok"..... 

Is anyone booked to play? 

[pete.young]

6 minutes ago, Muppet said:

I know of one place in my gigging circle that is still planning on putting on a band outdoor on 4th July.  All others (including the one my band was booked for) are no longer going ahead since reviewing the guidelines. Interestingly the one place that is still going ahead is saying "well, they're only guidelines, we'll be ok"..... 

Is anyone booked to play? 

From what I am reading and hearing, I think 4th July could be mayhem and I am glad that I don' t have anything in the diary. I'll be avoiding pubs even more than normal on that day. Some of the local pubs are talking about not opening until 6th.

There is a lot of use of 'should' in the guidelines : pubs 'should' obtain details of customers in case they need to be traced and tested, etc. To me, should means must: it's the same as shall. But to many people (including some international standards committees who go out of their way to redefine the word) it means, 'well maybe this would be a nice idea but don't stress if it doesn't happen'.

[taunton-hobbit]

If I were still playing out, I would avoid the 4th July weekend like the plague (no pun intended)

every idiot that ever there was is going to be off their heads at a venue near you (music or no)

😎