binky_bass Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) Hi all, I've heard a few stories out there about buyers paying via PayPal and then collecting the item, from what I've heard this leaves the seller open to being screwed if the buyer then claims to not have received the item. Is there any real way to safely accept a PayPal payment with the buyer collecting? I've arrange the sale of a bass and the buyer wants to pay via PayPal as they have 0% over 12 months so can essentially finance the purchase over a year. I get this, but I do feel a little trepidation about accepting PayPal when it leaves me in a fairly weak position if the buyer turns out to be unscrupulous. The chap seems absolutely fine, but I have been caught out once before many years ago with someone that really seemed a true gent then it turned out he sold me a stolen guitar. (Fortunately the guitar ended up back where is was stolen from and no one was out of pocket). So, is there a safe way to accept payment in this fashion without the risk of being up the creek? Signed receipts or something? Ta. Edited June 27, 2020 by binky_bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Would the buyer agree to you taking photo/video evidence of the handover? Thus providing you with proof that a} he received it and b} it was as advertised, etc? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binky_bass Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) Probably, but I suppose that's still no proof that the item wasn't then 'returned moments later'. There was a recent case where a basschatter sold a Markbass flight case where the buyer thought it contained a cab, they returned it an hour or so later, there was a small dispute as the seller clearly advertised it as a case only, the buyer just left it on his doorstep then claimed via PayPal he never received it and was refunded. I don't think a video/photo of the bass leaving my house would do me any favours in such a return scenario. Edited June 27, 2020 by binky_bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 All private sales are, somewhere along the line, a matter of trust. There are so many ways some folks manage to get around the protections, either as Buyer or as Seller, so it really only comes down to: do you trust the transaction to go smoothly enough..? If yes, go ahead. If no, then desist. Not very helpful, maybe, but that's the nitty-gritty; the rest is unfortunately almost impossible to guarantee. Most sales go off well. Some don't. Some have recourse, others not. There's no perfect, 'cast in stone' solution, so the other party is trusted, or not. Personally, I've never had a deal go sour, but, then again, I do very, very few, and choose partners carefully, so... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 If they're collecting, there's a good rule to follow - dont take Paypal. Take cash. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky_lowdown Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, fleabag said: If they're collecting, there's a good rule to follow - dont take Paypal. Take cash. I would agree to cash as well. Except with the pandemic - that really isn't an option! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binky_bass Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share Posted June 27, 2020 I'm leaning in the direction of not letting the bass go if PayPal is the only way the buyer can pay and they want to collect. My gut tells me there would be no issue, but its a lot of money and would be a massive kick in the teeth of I lost the bass and the cash. I'll have a ponder over night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Wear gloves, then wash the cash. Thats what i did when i sold my leccy scooter 2 weeks ago. Anyways, if someone's coming to collect, then is the OP going to disinfect the bass ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzbass2000 Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Take cash if they're collecting. Then all you have to do is count it, wash your hands and if you are concerned, leave it alone for a few days - whatever the shelf life of the virus is on paper / plastic money. And if you don't want to be holding it at home , bank it. They'll still be accepting cash for long time to come. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binky_bass Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share Posted June 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Fuzzbass2000 said: Take cash if they're collecting. Then all you have to do is count it, wash your hands and if you are concerned, leave it alone for a few days - whatever the shelf life of the virus is on paper / plastic money. And if you don't want to be holding it at home , bank it. They'll still be accepting cash for long time to come. The issue is they want to/can only pay via PayPal due to them being able to utilise the 0% over 12 month offer they have. Cash wouldn't be an option for this buyer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Paypal won't be interested in signed receipts, pictures of the two of you during the handover, or anything else. If he wants to pay with Paypal, the only secure way is for you to ship the bass to him and then you have the shipping receipts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 38 minutes ago, binky_bass said: The issue is they want to/can only pay via PayPal due to them being able to utilise the 0% over 12 month offer they have. Cash wouldn't be an option for this buyer. I wouldn't do it. Just find another buyer. I've trusted a seemingly honest buyer before and been screwed. Never again. For me it would be cash or no sale. The fact that you're asking here tells me that your instincts are telling you not to do this deal. Frank. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 48 minutes ago, binky_bass said: The issue is they want to/can only pay via PayPal due to them being able to utilise the 0% over 12 month offer they have. Cash wouldn't be an option for this buyer. Down to the nitty gritty here. Their problems are not your problems. Cash in the claw, or tell them to foxtrot oscar. That way you wont lose a bass 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnyman Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Or, given the discussion about PayPal elsewhere on here recently, ask the buyer to pay it as a Friends & Family payment (I believe this means the buyer has no protection from PayPal - but worth checking this). Also, ask the buyer to bring proof of identity and proof of address with them. I would then draw up a Bill of Sale saying that the buyer has inspected the goods and has taken them on an as-seen basis with no warranty. They sign to say that they have accepted the goods, you sign to say you have received the payment. Have two copies, each sign both of them and each take one and make sure they’re signed and dated along with full name and address of both parties. Take photos of both of you holding your (legible) IDs and copy of the Bill of Sale. Take photos of the buyer with the bass. So you now know that the buyer is who he claims to be, lives where he claims to live, has paid you by PayPal Friends & Family (a non-reversible transaction). He has also confirmed your identity and has your agreement that you have received the funds. I’m sure that there’s probably a way to scam even this set up but I can’t think what it is. So long as PP Friends/Family is as non-reversible as I believe it to be. The only other issue may be that he can only pay over 12 months if it goes through PayPal as a business transaction- which you definitely don’t want because that can be reversed and, as discussed above, even having photos of the handover may not be sufficient to prevent a chargeback..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky 4000 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Skinnyman said: Friends & Family payment Good thoughtful post, but a) I assume the 0% credit offer wouldn't count for F&F payments, and b) The seller risks having his PP account suspended if things turn ugly... personally, I know your intentions are good, but breaking PP Ts&Cs isn't a good start. IMHO. I say cash or bank transfer. Or, contact PP and see what they have to say about seller protection, under the aforementioned circumstances. Edited June 28, 2020 by Ricky 4000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) If the guy is collecting, get him to bring ID and sign a receipt. Take a photo of him and both docs. Edited June 28, 2020 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky 4000 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Idle thought: The buyer can't lose. The seller can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 C A S H ! ! ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 If you don’t trust the buyer, courier is your only option. However I’ve done this loads of times without problem, because I generally trust bassists! On one occasion I had cold feet so I took photos of the buyer in my house and of his car parked outside, but there was no problem. I also had messages via eBay indicating time of collection, and I sent one just after he left asking him to confirm collection and he did. You could ask your buyer to do this before he leaves perhaps? Also, PayPal are not above the law, if you have proof in the form of a receipt and/or photo, if things turned sour the threat of legal action would likely release your funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 IBAN bank transfer or cash. I would never accept Paypal when there is going to be no shipping receipt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilebodgers Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 7 hours ago, Skinnyman said: ...So long as PP Friends/Family is as non-reversible as I believe it to be. Isn't there a loophole if the buyer has funded paypal via a credit card and then claims that the credit card was stolen/compromised? I thought the transaction could be reversed in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzoid Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) At the end of the day, PayPal only has to abide by their terms and conditions - all of the ideas for photos, receipts and signing are nicely thought through and would give a certain sense of piece of mind - but mean nothing to a faceless corporate entity that really doesn't give a monkeys about you. They just point at the T&Cs and say "sorry, you're out of luck". This is what you agree to when you're a seller using PayPal: "For tangible items, post the item to the shipping address on the “Transaction Details” page. If the item is delivered in person or if the payment recipient posts the item to a different address (for example, if the buyer asks that you send to another address on the basis that it is a “work address” or a “gift” address) then you will not be eligible for re-imbursement under the terms of the programme." (https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/seller-protection) That's it - don't abide by that and you get nothing... And there's more detail there about what constitutes Proof of Postage, Proof of Delivery, etc. Edited June 28, 2020 by anzoid 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binky_bass Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 Well, overnight I've actually had someone else make a better offer on the Warwick and wants to collect today and pay via BACS transfer... I'm a whole lot more comfortable with this arrangement. Much safer for me. I do feel a shade of guilt if I pull out from the other sale, but being paid via PayPal for a collection just doesn't sit right, as per confirmation from all of yourselves. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggaebass Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 I’m glad you got sorted binky, I find this really interesting because I use PayPal quite a lot, According to google, some say a PayPal f&f payment can be reversed , and some say it cannot , has anyone ever reversed a f&f payment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassfinger Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) You can take photos, finger prints, DNA or a stool sample when he comes to collect it, and none of it will matter - Odds are that in the event of a dispute PayPal will still side with the buyer regardless of any logic or evidence. No cash, no sale. If the guy cant afford it without PayPal then find a buyer who can. You know there's huge potential for grief, and the odds of PayPal coming down in your favour are about as high as seeing Rebecca Long Bailey at a Barmitzvah, so why are you even asking? Luckily circumstances and BACS came to the rescue, but we're concerned for your wellbeing that you even considered PayPal! Edited June 28, 2020 by Bassfinger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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