What do you want from teachers/course/etc.?

[Stub Mandrel]

I was asked a question in a light-hearted thread. My answer got too serious and made me realise that perhaps a lot of us would consider various routes to learning more if we really understood what we want to achieve.

I'm struck by how our drummer identifies 'blocks' to getting a certain song right and then books a lesson with a teacher to address them. It's not 'teach me this' he asks for but 'help me get the technique to play this well'.

 

When getting back into things I took a lesson, and after I'd played for about 15-20 seconds it was straight into 'fretboard awareness' - I felt I was being pushed into a musical theory approach rather than addressing my technique, yet I'd specifically asked to address technique. Perhaps the mistake I made was to mention 'fluency' where I meant the physical smoothness of my playing, but he seemed to think I wanted to improve  my vocabulary (to use a language metaphor) rather than my accent. I tried to feel motivated - he hadn't criticised anything about my technique, but in truth I knew that didn't mean there was nothing to address.

What I would really like is someone to give me some things to play and unpick what's holding me back, especially how I could improve my sound - keeping a consistent tone when things speed up, better  understand locking into a groove, being able to be more deliberate in playing ahead or behind the beat, keep better time when playing fast, and generally addressing weaknesses in my technique.

I can play most things up to a point, although some stuff takes a long time to get in my fingers, and I'm confident enough to improvise, certainly in a blues/rock situation, so I'm more interested in a teacher making my playing better. I find that the more I practice or play with other people, the more my musical horizons expand so I'm learning new musical ideas and tackling new challenges anyway.

I see Scott Devine's 26-week 'bass technique accelerator' course; this could be what I need, but I am not sure I would stick with something that long. Certainly not in my present rather fluid situation. And what if I'm already at week 16? It might be a good idea in the future, but in the short term I'd like something more focused.

I'm struck by how, when musicians get together, we tend to 'accentuate the positive' and are reluctant to criticise each other's playing, although the band I'm in will occassionally pick up on something  - and (perhaps an advantage of being 'mature') offer it as helpful guidance rather than damning criticism. One person who does know how to criticise is one of my brothers - he watched a video of me playing and critiqued it right through. At times it was painful, but I learnt a lot more from that than any other half hour!

So I'm still not really sure what I want/need I suspect I need a bass 'mentor/tutor' who I can turn to when I'm stuck or can tell me not just when I'm not cutting the mustard by why and how I might improve.

 

[itu]

9 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I'm struck by how, when musicians get together, we tend to 'accentuate the positive' and are reluctant to criticise each other's playing, although the band I'm in will occassionally pick up on something  - and (perhaps an advantage of being 'mature') offer it as helpful guidance rather than damning criticism. One person who does know how to criticise is one of my brothers - he watched a video of me playing and critiqued it right through. At times it was painful, but I learnt a lot more from that than any other half hour!

So I'm still not really sure what I want/need I suspect I need a bass 'mentor/tutor' who I can turn to when I'm stuck or can tell me not just when I'm not cutting the mustard by why and how I might improve.

The surroundings I live has lots of people who are able to criticize, but they are not giving proper critique. Sometimes it is hard to get any decent words, although my band mates are very encouraging.

One tool that has helped me, is a looper or a recording system. You can hear your playing right away. You should be able to differentiate your feel and the direct audible feedback. I tried to learn legato playing, and taping my playing revealed many faults. Playing and hearing could be understanding, not just believing. When you are able to point out any issue with your playing by yourself, you can ask for more specific questions from your teacher, or fellow player, or even a bandmate.

[greghagger]

On 01/07/2020 at 11:04, Stub Mandrel said:

I was asked a question in a light-hearted thread. My answer got too serious and made me realise that perhaps a lot of us would consider various routes to learning more if we really understood what we want to achieve.

I'm struck by how our drummer identifies 'blocks' to getting a certain song right and then books a lesson with a teacher to address them. It's not 'teach me this' he asks for but 'help me get the technique to play this well'.

 

When getting back into things I took a lesson, and after I'd played for about 15-20 seconds it was straight into 'fretboard awareness' - I felt I was being pushed into a musical theory approach rather than addressing my technique, yet I'd specifically asked to address technique. Perhaps the mistake I made was to mention 'fluency' where I meant the physical smoothness of my playing, but he seemed to think I wanted to improve  my vocabulary (to use a language metaphor) rather than my accent. I tried to feel motivated - he hadn't criticised anything about my technique, but in truth I knew that didn't mean there was nothing to address.

What I would really like is someone to give me some things to play and unpick what's holding me back, especially how I could improve my sound - keeping a consistent tone when things speed up, better  understand locking into a groove, being able to be more deliberate in playing ahead or behind the beat, keep better time when playing fast, and generally addressing weaknesses in my technique.

I can play most things up to a point, although some stuff takes a long time to get in my fingers, and I'm confident enough to improvise, certainly in a blues/rock situation, so I'm more interested in a teacher making my playing better. I find that the more I practice or play with other people, the more my musical horizons expand so I'm learning new musical ideas and tackling new challenges anyway.

I see Scott Devine's 26-week 'bass technique accelerator' course; this could be what I need, but I am not sure I would stick with something that long. Certainly not in my present rather fluid situation. And what if I'm already at week 16? It might be a good idea in the future, but in the short term I'd like something more focused.

I'm struck by how, when musicians get together, we tend to 'accentuate the positive' and are reluctant to criticise each other's playing, although the band I'm in will occassionally pick up on something  - and (perhaps an advantage of being 'mature') offer it as helpful guidance rather than damning criticism. One person who does know how to criticise is one of my brothers - he watched a video of me playing and critiqued it right through. At times it was painful, but I learnt a lot more from that than any other half hour!

So I'm still not really sure what I want/need I suspect I need a bass 'mentor/tutor' who I can turn to when I'm stuck or can tell me not just when I'm not cutting the mustard by why and how I might improve.

 

Interesting post. As musicians, we can all benefit from a mentor.  This is a more accurate word than teacher in certain situations.   I have taught and played professionally for over 25 years now and I still have a mentor that I go and see from time to time.  There are always things to learn and having direction is so helpful.

It's the feedback that we all need.  Online courses are great to a certain point.  I have now started making them too.  The perfect solution for a lot of players learning online is taking a course and then having some coaching afterwards.  In my opinion, the coaching part is just as important.

When learning with a teacher, it is very helpful to know what you want to achieve from the lesson.  Sometimes communicating what this is can be difficult though!  

The quicker we learn to take criticism, the better.  Although like you say, sometimes this isn't given in the most positive way.

Good luck with your further development.

[chris_b]

On 01/07/2020 at 11:04, Stub Mandrel said:

I'm struck by how our drummer identifies 'blocks' to getting a certain song right and then books a lesson with a teacher to address them. It's not 'teach me this' he asks for but 'help me get the technique to play this well'.

That's basically what I did.

I had some lessons with Ian King. The first lessons in my life, and I just asked him to get me out of this rut. He explained different shapes, patterns, techniques and ideas and, after showing me these new options, gave me a list of songs that used this information to expand my abilities and creative thinking.

I'm probably still in the rut, but it's a lot wider now and some days I can't even see the sides. I'll happily tackle stuff now that I would have left alone in the past.

Ian took what I asked and turned it into a set of suggestions that made me make myself a better player. I'd never have done that with a book or sitting at home on my own.

[TKenrick]

On 01/07/2020 at 11:04, Stub Mandrel said:

So I'm still not really sure what I want/need I suspect I need a bass 'mentor/tutor' who I can turn to when I'm stuck or can tell me not just when I'm not cutting the mustard by why and how I might improve.

 

There's a big gulf between someone who can tell you what you're doing wrong and someone who is able to give you practical steps towards solving the problem(s), preferably in a way that's relevant to the music that you listen to and play.

As others have already said, a lesson with someone who has lots of playing experience but also takes the time to listen to you and understand where you want to go is worth umpteen online courses or instructional books. I try to check in with a mentor whenever I can (typically one lesson every year), I think it's important to have a second pair of ears to critique your playing no matter how long you've been at it.

[Doddy]

When I have one of my occasional lessons, I like to go in completely open without dictating what I want to learn. I generally have an idea about what I think my weaknesses are and where things may go, but sometimes it goes in a completely different way than I expected. When I had my first lesson with a relatively well known player, he picked up on my fretting hand technique (which I thought was pretty good) and we worked on that for a bit before moving on to more challenging material. It wasn't what I was looking for, but it made a big difference and made the harder material a little bit easier

I'm kind of the same way when I'm teaching. Of course I want to know what the student wants to get out of the lesson, but we may end up working on something that they didn't think was an issue, but will help them get the results they need.

[waylander]

For me it’s someone who looks longer term then the next song I’ve got as homework.

i think it comes from past experience as the teacher I had several years back was focused purely on the song as a way to help me learn to play. This was great at the time, being able to learn to play Muse, The Darkness etc that I thought were well beyond my reach. But he didn’t address any core skills like knowing the neck, my technique and I didn’t deviate from my preferred music genre. 
 

ive got lessons now with a different teacher and it’s very different. He uses rock school grade books as a basis for lessons  and I’m working at a grade 3 book. 
 

He’s picked up I struggle with off beats and threw me into jazz songs initially to get me away from rock. I struggled big time with them even trying by ear as the rhythms different. It’s slow going and I think we’ll be in grade 3 for a long time yet, but I’m noticing a difference in my understanding of music and my confidence with it too. In the long term I think it’s going to help me be able to actually play bass instead of play a certain song. 

[Manny]

Any advice on finding a teacher? Tia.

[Stub Mandrel]

YouTube randomly threw a video at me.

I must admit, this guy is a really good teacher.