My new Maruszczyk---"nitro gloss"?

[LukeFRC]

10 minutes ago, miles'tone said:

True, but I think in this case the inch long crack protruding from the neck pocket qualifies the buyer to demand a refund.

Edit: the crack is might just in the finish - maybe Adrian needs to allow his nitro builds a longer curing period before final QC inspections and shipping? 

 

 

If that’s an inch then I would be more worried about why the neck is the size of a 4x4 fence post!
 

 

[skej21]

13 minutes ago, miles'tone said:

True, but I think in this case the inch long crack protruding from the neck pocket qualifies the buyer to demand a refund.

Edit: the crack is might just in the finish - maybe Adrian needs to allow his nitro builds a longer curing period before final QC inspections and shipping? 

 

 

Well you may be correct but it’s certainly not Adrian or the product’s fault. The choice of finish significantly increases the likelihood of this happening during transit and there’s very little Adrian could do to prevent it. I used to work in a guitar store and (at the time) the Fender American Vintage range instruments used to arrive like this quite regularly, so like I said, it’s a byproduct of the spec and conditions so the blame should not be placed with Adrian (even if the responsibility is his to try and fix it).

[Cuzzie]

31 minutes ago, skej21 said:

Well you may be correct but it’s certainly not Adrian or the product’s fault. The choice of finish significantly increases the likelihood of this happening during transit and there’s very little Adrian could do to prevent it. I used to work in a guitar store and (at the time) the Fender American Vintage range instruments used to arrive like this quite regularly, so like I said, it’s a byproduct of the spec and conditions so the blame should not be placed with Adrian (even if the responsibility is his to try and fix it).

 

Personally I don’t think it’s a ‘custom’ instrument, it’s a combination of the standard alternatives he offers.

If we take what you say as a given - theN the main problem is how the issue has been addressed.

A friend of mine bought a new Sandberg, he found a fleck, and I mean a fleck of paint on the neck from another finish, which obviously happened by accident. Sandberg contacted, no questions asked took it back, solved the problem- no extra cost.

Thats service

Edited July 14, 2020 by Cuzzie

[Mudpup]

1 hour ago, skej21 said:

 

. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Mudpup

[skej21]

14 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

 

Personally I don’t think it’s a ‘custom’ instrument, it’s a combination of the standard alternatives he offers.

If we take what you say as a given - theN the main problem is how the issue has been addressed.

A friend of mine bought a new Sandberg, he found a fleck, and I mean a fleck of paint on the neck from another finish, which obviously happened by accident. Sandberg contacted, no questions asked took it back, solved the problem- no extra cost.

Thats service

Like i said, the crack is a byproduct of having a softer nitro finish plus the damage from the courier, and like i said, I agree that Adrian should take responsibility for fixing it (professionally). I just disagree with the OP having no concept of this and blaming the product/Adrian for the fact its there.

For example, you wouldn't order Royal Dalton glass tumblers from John Lewis and when the courier delivered them with some damage, complain that John Lewis are awful. You'd explain to John Lewis and they'd replace it for you in a friendly a professional manner and claim back from the courier. 

Your example with your friend is also not comparable, as this was a finishing problem caused by the manufacturing process.

[Cuzzie]

Just now, skej21 said:

Like i said, the crack is a byproduct of having a softer nitro finish plus the damage from the courier, and like i said, I agree that Adrian should take responsibility for fixing it (professionally). I just disagree with the OP having no concept of this and blaming the product/Adrian for the fact its there.

For example, you wouldn't order Royal Dalton glass tumblers from John Lewis and when the courier delivered them with some damage, complain that John Lewis are awful. You'd explain to John Lewis and they'd replace it for you in a friendly a professional manner and claim back from the courier. 

Your example with your friend is also not comparable, as this was a finishing problem caused by the manufacturing process.

I think you are missing the point, the point was a minor defect and how it was dealt with by the company.

second example - nothing like this one as a spoiler - A friend had bought a second hand Electra Sandberg bass (their lower cost line), broke a tuning peg by his own clumsiness, emailed Sandberg to ask where can he buy a replacement one, the owner himself emailed back and they sent a brand new one In the post free of charge arriving within a week.

With sympathetic customer service, this goes away or can be dealt with

[skej21]

4 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

I think you are missing the point, the point was a minor defect and how it was dealt with by the company.

second example - nothing like this one as a spoiler - A friend had bought a second hand Electra Sandberg bass (their lower cost line), broke a tuning peg by his own clumsiness, emailed Sandberg to ask where can he buy a replacement one, the owner himself emailed back and they sent a brand new one In the post free of charge arriving within a week.

With sympathetic customer service, this goes away or can be dealt with

As I have said in every single post so far, I agree that Adrian as the manufacturer has an obligation to help to try and resolve any queries or sticking points during a customer's purchasing journey  

Edited July 14, 2020 by skej21

[Cuzzie]

But by simultaneously saying, ‘that’s different’, it buries that point.

If I was a manufacturer and this is something that happens ‘often’ I would certainly have a disclaimer/info sheet on the variables that can happen in transit etc

[Woodinblack]

53 minutes ago, skej21 said:

Like i said, the crack is a byproduct of having a softer nitro finish plus the damage from the courier, and like i said, I agree that Adrian should take responsibility for fixing it (professionally). I just disagree with the OP having no concept of this and blaming the product/Adrian for the fact its there.

I am not sure why should the purchaser have a concept of nitro finishes cracking on purchase? I didn't know this. The nitro finish is an option on the configurator, if you select it it doesn't appear to inform you that selecting that type of finish can produce cracks and blemishes from new, which obviously if that is the case it should. Or when you check out it should say 'note you have selected a nitro-celulous finish, this type of finish can arrive with cracks or imperfections'

53 minutes ago, skej21 said:

For example, you wouldn't order Royal Dalton glass tumblers from John Lewis and when the courier delivered them with some damage, complain that John Lewis are awful. You'd explain to John Lewis and they'd replace it for you in a friendly a professional manner and claim back from the courier.

No, you *shouldn't* complain that John Lewis are awful, but they are responsible for getting it to you, so if it arrives broken that is their fault not yours, they didn't select the courier. If you did complain that they were awful, they would still replace it for you in a friendly and professional manner because that is the job of a supplier.

As the husband of someone who runs and online business I have lost count of the number of abusive, downright rude, or passive agressive messages that get sent. Some people aren't nice, but you still need to reply politely, because that is customer service and that will get you far further than having a go.

[skej21]

20 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I am not sure why should the purchaser have a concept of nitro finishes cracking on purchase? I didn't know this. The nitro finish is an option on the configurator, if you select it it doesn't appear to inform you that selecting that type of finish can produce cracks and blemishes from new, which obviously if that is the case it should. Or when you check out it should say 'note you have selected a nitro-celulous finish, this type of finish can arrive with cracks or imperfections'

No, you *shouldn't* complain that John Lewis are awful, but they are responsible for getting it to you, so if it arrives broken that is their fault not yours, they didn't select the courier. If you did complain that they were awful, they would still replace it for you in a friendly and professional manner because that is the job of a supplier.

As the husband of someone who runs and online business I have lost count of the number of abusive, downright rude, or passive agressive messages that get sent. Some people aren't nice, but you still need to reply politely, because that is customer service and that will get you far further than having a go.

Yup I agree. Someone else already pointed out that Adrian should know his buyer's might not always understand what they are buying and make it explicit. Maybe it's possible that Adrian (having a lot of knowledge of the subject of guitar building is a little naive in also thinking someone spending €2000+ on a custom instrument might have an understanding of what they are choosing?).  

I also mentioned numerous times that he should also try and help resolve this with the purchaser.

Edited July 14, 2020 by skej21

[Merton]

I'm surprised by the lack of comment on the configuration tool about nitro finishes - there's a comment against ebony fingerboards being prone to damage. Perhaps there will be an update on this soon....

[akabane]

I frankly still cannot understand here all the people who are going to OP saying "Oh you simple thingy, you should have known that a finish on your new custom bass coming from a highly paid luthier would come in cracked, awww" - I find that disgusting.

Regardless of whether nitro finishes are more prone to cracks or not (undisclosed to the customer), regardless of whether the volume pots are working with some weird curve to them (undisclosed with the customer),  the point is that anyone running a business would not want those type of discussions happening around about their brand (and it happens here in multiple topics, over on talkbass and so on), for what? In exchange of a couple of polite email replies and offering help to the customer? 

I know for a fact that despite really liking some of their designs (and why I follow such topics), after this rigamarole I will never go and buy a bass from Adrian. All he had to do was not even offer refunds etc...but just keep an honest channel of communication open with the customer, so that they could work TOGETHER to solve the problem. Even if NOTHING was then done to regards of sending bass back, changing parts etc...the OP would have been absolutely happy with their instrument since the builder took the time to walk them through their doubts. Seriously you all are minimising the sour taste this leaves  way too much. I wonder if {insert your favourite luthier here/Shuker/Sei/Marleaux/Sadowsky/Whatever} did that when YOU ordered your custom build...

Edited July 14, 2020 by akabane

[skej21]

Just to be clear because people seem to be missing my point and arguing that I don't think Adrian should take responsibility (despite writing it in every response so far!).

The only point i was trying to make is that I think there is a clear distinction between the 'responsibility' of the situation (Adrian should take full responsibility for anything related to his product that the OP's raises) and the 'blame; (which the OP seems to believe also lies with Adrian's product, and i disagree - and based on his correspondence Adrian clearly believes that these issues are a byproduct of the options selected by the customer [excluding the crack from transit]).

I think we can all agree that maybe that was not communicated in the correct way during the configuration process, build process or after-sales communication!

I think this falls down to the fact that Adrian probably quite naively believes that someone who chooses a nitro finish, maybe took some time to research it. For example, a one minute google search for "nitrocellulose lacquer" produces many results, the first of which is this; https://blog.andertons.co.uk/labs/nitro-vs-poly-guitar-finishes#:~:text=Nitrocellulose lacquers have been around,instruments%2C saxophones and even cars.&text=Regarding its content%2C nitrocellulose lacquer,mixed nitric and sulfuric acids.

It highlights quite quickly the issue that likely resulted in that small neck pocket lacquer stress crack and also how the satin finish the customer was expecting from nitro occurs with time;

"[...] its softer texture does make it susceptible to cosmetic damage. This means that dings and scratches are more visible on guitars with nitro finishes, and much easier to inflict. A nitrocellulose lacquer also wears away over time, causing dulling in areas where you make regular contact with your guitar; such as the lower bout where your forearm rests." 

I'm not saying you must do this research before buying, but i just find it incredible that someone would spend €2000+ euros on something without knowing what they are buying (taking a risk they might not like it!)

Edited July 14, 2020 by skej21

[Muzz]

I had an issue with a replacement pickup I had fitted to a Shuker (by Jon), it turned out that the pickup was verrrrrry bright paired with the active circuit in the bass. When I couldn't live with it, I took it back to Jon, he changed a couple of caps for me in the circuit, job done. The issue was clearly because I'd asked for a different pickup to be fitted, and I'm sure there are people in this thread who might have rolled their eyes and said 'Durrrrr', but Jon just sorted it, no charge. That's customer service: the extra mile. I have four Shukers now, and those two facts aren't unrelated.

I ordered a different pickup for my Dingwall (a P-Tone), as it turned out they sent me the wrong one by accident. Sheldon's (immediate) response? 'Really sorry, we've shipped you the correct one, you can keep the other one.'

And those pots? They haven't been specced correctly. End of. The excuse of 'Oh, that's just what they do'  doesn't wash.

I played a Maruszczyk once, it was a nice PJ copy. I wouldn't buy one new, though; too many unhappy customers for the price bracket.

Oh, and if anyone who'd sold me something new for £2k+ said 'You find something good or is it only stinky poo?', they'd be getting it back by return post.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Muzz

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, skej21 said:

Maybe it's possible that Adrian (having a lot of knowledge of the subject of guitar building is a little naive in also thinking someone spending €2000+ on a custom instrument might have an understanding of what they are choosing?

In which case, as I have argued before, he should get someone else to do the public face then, as I have spent £2000 on custom instruments and had no idea of this as an issue and it wouldnt have occured to me to look into it. There is a difference between thinking 'I want nitro' because I like the way it ages and softens over time to, I want nitro and I am going to do research into the effects and drawback of a particular finish to the level required to do it myself.

I have two nitro guitars, neither of them have cracks. But then frankly, if nitro is this bad, how come old time manufacturers like gibson ever managed to sell guitars before the internet? You walk into the store, there are 10 les pauls, I will have the new one with the crack please.

 

1 hour ago, skej21 said:

Just to be clear because people seem to be missing my point and arguing that I don't think Adrian should take responsibility (despite writing it in every response so far!).

The only point i was trying to make is that I think there is a clear distinction between the 'responsibility' of the situation (Adrian should take full responsibility for anything related to his product that the OP's raises) and the 'blame; (which the OP seems to believe also lies with Adrian's product, and i disagree - and based on his correspondence Adrian clearly believes that these issues are a byproduct of the options selected by the customer [excluding the crack from transit]).

There are - neither in this case are with the purchaser.

1 hour ago, skej21 said:

I think this falls down to the fact that Adrian probably quite naively believes that someone who chooses a nitro finish, maybe took some time to research it.

And clearly in this case, you also believe that for every option that someone takes, they should have spent an hour on the internet researching the positives and negatives of the options. If you are the sort of person who does that research then yes, maybe that would seem obvious. If you have time looking into those issues, maybe that would be obvious.

Some people buy something because they like the look of it.

Can you belive if you go into the electric car thread, there is absolutely no discussion about the chemical composition of the batteries of the electric cars and people are spending 10 times the amount on that? idiots eh? I bet that would be obvious to someone manufacturing them.

 

1 hour ago, skej21 said:

For example, a one minute google search for "nitrocellulose lacquer" produces many results, the first of which is this; https://blog.andertons.co.uk/labs/nitro-vs-poly-guitar-finishes#:~:text=Nitrocellulose lacquers have been around,instruments%2C saxophones and even cars.&text=Regarding its content%2C nitrocellulose lacquer,mixed nitric and sulfuric acids.

Yes, so andertons actually put some info on the web about it even though they don't manufacture it. However I think the phrase " Apart from the above, small cracks can appear in a nitro finish after several years too " implies that will be there from day one.

1 hour ago, skej21 said:

I'm not saying you must do this research before buying, but i just find it incredible that someone would spend €2000+ euros on something without knowing what they are buying (taking a risk they might not like it!)

Sorry, but you really are saying you must do this research before buying it and its your fault if you don't find info on it.

 

 

[Woodinblack]

17 minutes ago, Muzz said:

Oh, and if anyone who'd sold me something new for £2k+ said 'You find something good or is it only stinky poo?', they'd be getting it back by return post.

This. This would get an immediate F* right off, I paid 2k for this instrument, you can shove it with that attitude.

[Muzz]

There might be people out there who don't mind spending £2k+ and not being completely happy, but £2k is an awful lot of money to me, and I'd simply feel mugged if it wasn't completely right. Especially when the vendor spoke to me like that...

[acidbass]

Yes very disappointing handling of the situation by Adrian. Pretty sure I'd be looking at alternative builders if Maruszczyk was on my list right now. If they can't guarantee their product can be sent to arrive without flaws, then don't distance sell!

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

I’ve had an itch for a white P bass for a little while now. I’ve been working on a shortlist of possible luthiers. Thanks to this thread, I’ve managed to cross one off 😎

[skej21]

11 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

In which case, as I have argued before, he should get someone else to do the public face then, as I have spent £2000 on custom instruments and had no idea of this as an issue and it wouldnt have occured to me to look into it. There is a difference between thinking 'I want nitro' because I like the way it ages and softens over time to, I want nitro and I am going to do research into the effects and drawback of a particular finish to the level required to do it myself.

I have two nitro guitars, neither of them have cracks. But then frankly, if nitro is this bad, how come old time manufacturers like gibson ever managed to sell guitars before the internet? You walk into the store, there are 10 les pauls, I will have the new one with the crack please.

 

There are - neither in this case are with the purchaser.

And clearly in this case, you also believe that for every option that someone takes, they should have spent an hour on the internet researching the positives and negatives of the options. If you are the sort of person who does that research then yes, maybe that would seem obvious. If you have time looking into those issues, maybe that would be obvious.

Some people buy something because they like the look of it.

Can you belive if you go into the electric car thread, there is absolutely no discussion about the chemical composition of the batteries of the electric cars and people are spending 10 times the amount on that? idiots eh? I bet that would be obvious to someone manufacturing them.

 

Yes, so andertons actually put some info on the web about it even though they don't manufacture it. However I think the phrase " Apart from the above, small cracks can appear in a nitro finish after several years too " implies that will be there from day one.

Sorry, but you really are saying you must do this research before buying it and its your fault if you don't find info on it.

 

 

You're entitled to read and interpret what i have written however you like, but I think if you look back objectively and read what I have written, you will see you have not understood correctly. I can also tell you none of those interpretations are correctly detailing my intentions. Happy to discuss via message, as my attempts to be clear are still causing pointless cyclical arguments and unfairly hijacking the OPs thread.

[Woodinblack]

50 minutes ago, skej21 said:

You're entitled to read and interpret what i have written however you like, but I think if you look back objectively and read what I have written, you will see you have not understood correctly.

I read back objectively and don't see it, but it doesn't matter. I think the OP is getting his issue sorted and I hope he can put it behind him and it won't affect his love of the bass. I love my maruszczyk, its one of my favourites (and my wifes favourite colour), but the QC issues I had with it still soured it a little.

[Radchenko]

6 hours ago, skej21 said:

Like i said, the crack is a byproduct of having a softer nitro finish plus the damage from the courier, and like i said, I agree that Adrian should take responsibility for fixing it (professionally). I just disagree with the OP having no concept of this and blaming the product/Adrian for the fact its there.

For example, you wouldn't order Royal Dalton glass tumblers from John Lewis and when the courier delivered them with some damage, complain that John Lewis are awful. You'd explain to John Lewis and they'd replace it for you in a friendly a professional manner and claim back from the courier. 

Your example with your friend is c not comparable, as this was a finishing problem caused by the manufacturing process.

Hello, thanks for your opinion.

Well, I'm not sure that the problem is from the courier (it's a possibility), only know that Adrian is not helping me, only saying his bass is great, better than other brands an not taking responsabilities. 

From the beggining in january only answer me certain mails, others don't and not in a good mood. 

Thank you.

[wateroftyne]

Have you had any other contact from him since?

[Radchenko]

12 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

Have you had any other contact from him since?

Hello, not from 6th july. I add last mails we sent. I wrote also this morning.

The fissure is 1 centimeter.

Thank you.

[wateroftyne]

It sounds to me like he's open to negotiation. Did you reply to that..?