Vanderkley 310 MNT, experience anyone?

[Wiseblood]

I am about to upgrade my amp and cab and was thinking about getting an Aguilar AG700 (that one is pretty much settled) and need a cab to go with it.

Right now Vanderkley 310 MNT seems like the best option but I am also considering Bergantino 410HG. The Vanderkley seems to be playing well, and hands down, they look far better than any other cab I have seen so far...

I was wondering if anyone have any experience with the Vanderkley 310 MNT in particular, but any Vanderkley in general?

Edited July 8, 2020 by Wiseblood

[Acebassmusic]

Not the 310 but the 210. A friend has 2 x 210 MNT which he only uses both for big gigs. Normal pub gigs he only uses 1 in a 5 peice covers band.....and he's not quiet 🙂 I used his rig for a dep I did for him in a big hall and it didnt break a sweat. Based on this and other reviews I bought one 210 for the rehearsal space and running it with a Tecamp Puma 900 and find theres no lack of bottom end or clarity with it. I have yet to use mine on a gig as I usually use my Berg CN212 which is itself pretty awesome. I doubt you'd be dissapointed with either the 310 or 410 you're looking at. If you need the volume without PA support then the 410 might edge it. For moving and storage the 310 would win for me. Alternatively get one of each "just in case" 😉 🤣

[Al Krow]

I've had both the VK 210MNT and the Berg CN 212. Both excellent but for me, no question, the Berg edged it. 

For a smaller very capable one-stop-compact cab solution, also worth considering either the Fearless F112 or a Barefaced BB2, which should both easily handle the output from your AG700. 

Be interesting to see what other AG700 owners pair their heads with. What sort of music are you playing and are you currently in a (loud?) band? 

[Wiseblood]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I've had both the VK 210MNT and the Berg CN 212. Both excellent but for me, no question, the Berg edged it. 

For a smaller very capable one-stop-compact cab solution, also worth considering either the Fearless F112 or a Barefaced BB2, which should both easily handle the output from your AG700. 

Be interesting to see what other AG700 owners pair their heads with. What sort of music are you playing and are you currently in a (loud?) band? 

I play in loads of different settings: Church (together with a piano), big band, choir (right now a gospel, but we did a musical), jazz and a loud intrumental band. That is why I need a amp without tube distortion (I can add that before the amp), so I need a jack of all trades. And I need it to be "clear" as in articulate, that is why I prefer 10" speakers and not 12 or 15 ". And it need to be kind of loud, that is why I would prefer 3 or 4 10" speakers. I have used 4 x 10" now (a Rumble 500 v3 and a 2X10" extension). But most 4x10 is heavy (except for the Berg410HG), so that is why I'm after the Vanderkley or the Berg as those can move lots of air very well.

What I have read other places is that the Berg CN 212 is kind of mid-heavy (so very good with a Fender Precision and a loud rock band), but I think the 410HG has another character? The 410HG is a 3+1, so 3 in the front and one in the back (that obviously does not do all that much without a back wall). It is supposed to add some kind of surround/3D effect.

[chris_b]

I've not heard Vanderkley but every review I read says they are a class act.

I am sceptical, who needs a 3D bass sound? The drummer doesn't and most will probably not hear anything extra that 3D brings. Bergs are fantastic cabs. My last was a CN212. It has a great sound across all frequencies, not just the mids. I used a Thunderfunk and TH500 with the Bergs.

I still use the Thunderfunk but, these days, my main amp is an AG700 with Barefaced SC, SM and BB2 cabs. The best sound I've had so far.

[Dan Dare]

3x10 always struck me as being a good idea. Most of the weight of sound of a 4x10 and plenty enough for any normal situation. I had an Epifani and it was excellent. It was only the fact that it was a little bulky - although light - and therefore difficult to get up the narrow stairs to my flat that caused me to sell it.

[Al Krow]

On 09/07/2020 at 11:07, Wiseblood said:

I play in loads of different settings: Church (together with a piano), big band, choir (right now a gospel, but we did a musical), jazz and a loud intrumental band. That is why I need a amp without tube distortion (I can add that before the amp), so I need a jack of all trades. And I need it to be "clear" as in articulate, that is why I prefer 10" speakers and not 12 or 15 ". And it need to be kind of loud, that is why I would prefer 3 or 4 10" speakers. I have used 4 x 10" now (a Rumble 500 v3 and a 2X10" extension). But most 4x10 is heavy (except for the Berg410HG), so that is why I'm after the Vanderkley or the Berg as those can move lots of air very well.

What I have read other places is that the Berg CN 212 is kind of mid-heavy (so very good with a Fender Precision and a loud rock band), but I think the 410HG has another character? The 410HG is a 3+1, so 3 in the front and one in the back (that obviously does not do all that much without a back wall). It is supposed to add some kind of surround/3D effect.

I'm interested that you think a 10" cab is going to be more articulate than a 12" cab? I've been fortunate to have had several really good cabs over the recent few years and my Berg CN 212 and Mesa PH 212 (neither of which I have any longer as I've downsized to 112s) were two of the very best I've had in terms of clarity; they both outshone the two VK 210s I've had.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Al Krow

[Wiseblood]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I'm interested that you think a 10" cab is going to be more articulate than a 12" cab? I've been fortunate to have had several really good cabs over the recent few years and my Berg CN 212 and Mesa PH 212 (neither of which I have any longer as I've downsized to 112s) were two of the very best I've had in terms of clarity; they both outshone the two VK 210s I've had.

The math is quite simple. The 10" speaker has to push less air than a 12" or 15" speaker and will because of that move faster back and forth. There are of course loads of things that affect this as open or closed cabs, size and type of magnets etc, but if everything else is equal, the bigger speaker will have to work harder and hence move slower.

So what you are saying is that the Berg and Mesa are better in terms of clarity than the Vanderkley? 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Wiseblood

[Al Krow]

Yes. Don't get me wrong, my VK210s were very good indeed. And I was skeptical that the Berg CN212 would be an improvement. I spent a full hour A/Bing my VK with the Berg before buying the CN212. Very patient seller, but he clinched his sale!

Just seen there is a CN212 in the FS, on for a good price. 

[Al Krow]

PS btw I'm not sure I agree with your math. The amount of air pushed is surely a proxy measure for volume? Precisely because a 12" moves more air than a 10", it will need less speaker excursion to generate the same volume. 

Why does speed of speaker excursion equate to clarity anyway? 

[chris_b]

The amount of air moved by a driver is dependant on the size of the driver and the excursion distance of the cone. A 10" driver that moves 6mm will be moving more air than a 12" driver only moving 3mm.

[Wiseblood]

Well, I was not here to argue about physics, soon enough one of the guys in here that make cabs can tell you what and why. But there is a reason why you never have seen a 15" tweeter... I simply wondered if you guys had any experience wht the Bergs ves the VK and what your experience was.

[alexclaber]

Yes, I can tell you that the maths isn't simple and that a 12" speaker doesn't move slower than a 10" speaker. If you're so certain that you're right about lighter things accelerating faster than heavier things, can you tell me why a two tonne Bugatti Veyron can get from 0-60mph far faster than a Citroen 2CV which weighs a third as much?

At Barefaced we did a lot of R&D before launching our 12XN range as the best possible high accuracy solution. We could have used anything from 5" to 21" drivers but 12" worked best. Occasionally people that haven't heard them ask for a 10" version. We could make one but it wouldn't be as good (quantifiably) so as this engineer is in charge and I don't have a finance director or marketing department telling me to just make something to get some more sales, I'm not doing it!

[Wiseblood]

It has definetly NOTHING to do with weight (no one mentioned weight here), but air resistance due to size. Take a big umbrella and a small one and go outside a windy day Alex, and you'll find out simple laws of physics. I know that you know more about building speakers than me, not going to argue about that. 🙂

I was asking for an honest opinion about Vanderkleys vs Bergantinos.

 

[Merton]

You came to ask about Berg vs Vanderkley but people asked (justifiably, they’re all trying to help you get the best result!) why those two Have been shortlisted, offered other options and then have also backed that up with some science. A 12” or 15” driver isn’t slower than a 10” and air resistance at this sort of level is probably completely negligible given all the many other real factors which affect how a bass driver works in an enclosure. Check out Alex’s excellent Barefaced demo videos he’s made recently and you will see

Happy hunting!

Edited July 12, 2020 by Merton

[Wiseblood]

I'm after a Berg (or maybe Aguilar) 4x10, or a 3x10 if Vanderkley, not a 2x12, as that is what I prefer. Talkbass members know next to nothing about Vanderkley (but a lot more about the Bergantino), so I thought I'd ask here about the Vanderkley. But it seems like there are not too many 3x10 Vanderkleys around, so I better ask Morten at Bass Buddha what he think. I will most likely do my shopping there in Denmark as it is easier for me as a Norwegian.

[alexclaber]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

It has definetly NOTHING to do with weight (no one mentioned weight here), but air resistance due to size. Take a big umbrella and a small one and go outside a windy day Alex, and you'll find out simple laws of physics. I know that you know more about building speakers than me, not going to argue about that. 🙂

I was asking for an honest opinion about Vanderkleys vs Bergantinos.

 

Yes. A bigger umbrella is more easily moved by the air. And therefore air is more easily moved by a larger membrane. What is it you're hearing and feeling when you play bass? It's air moving. The more resistance the air applies to a loudspeaker, the more efficiently the loudspeaker works at converting cone motion into audible sound. This is why bass horns are amazing - if you're willing to carry a bass rig the size of a large van - the horn adds air resistance, improving the radiation impedance at the speaker cone.

You are perfectly entitled to want to buy a cab with 10" speakers rather than 12" speakers but please don't try to justify your decision by misusing physics.

[Wiseblood]

How would you compare your Barefaced 4x10 to your BigTwin2?

If you were to pick one of your cabs to play at low volume in church and also at loud volume on a stage that suck treble where cabs tend to go boomy/muddy (around 150 - 250hZ)?

Edit: The amp is an Aguilar AG700

Edited July 13, 2020 by Wiseblood

[alexclaber]

4 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

How would you compare your Barefaced 4x10 to your BigTwin2?

If you were to pick one of your cabs to play at low volume in church and also at loud volume on a stage that suck treble where cabs tend to go boomy/muddy (around 150 - 250hZ)?

Edit: The amp is an Aguilar AG700

The Four10 is warmer, fatter, rounder, less deep, less immediate, less clean, less precise. The Big Twin 2 sounds like a really good PA system or massive studio monitors. If you want to REALLY hear what your hands, bass and amp sound like I don't think there's anything more accurate on the market. It can also go stupidly loud!