So where did 5's and 6's get us?

[visog]

So we're ~60 years into the electric bass as a four-string and as of the '80s we acquired five and six strings. Subsequently we got sevens and further extended range basses. Do we have a commensurate jump in musical quality or bass playing as a result?

I'm struggling to manifest many examples: Anthony Jackson and John Patitucci spring to mind. Gary Willis and Hadrien Feraud rock a five but their output is hardly mainstream.

My prog' heroes are four-stringers by and large with Squire dipping into fives and sixes for his less inspirational 90s and 00s output.

Just sayin'. Views and counter-examples welcome but I'm calling it: more strings does not make better music! (Sorry if I'm late to this party.)

Edited July 9, 2020 by visog

[Lozz196]

I think it’s down to personal taste/choice but I’m in agreement, out of my fave players none used more than 4 strings.

[akabane]

Let me preface by saying: I've grown up playing upright bass (with classical and some jazz influences). So 4 has been the norm forever for me, since I was 10-11 years old. Since I took up electric, after having a try with a 4, I've always gone directly for 6 strings since. Compared to upright they're so much easier to play, I don't see reason not to have those two extra string possibilities available to me, at the cost of having a fretboard not even half the width of an upright one  I don't care if I see somebody come out with a 9 string bass. I don't care if they proceed to spend the evening only playing root-five on E and A, I don't care if they spend the evening doing chordal harmonic work. As long as the music is good and they are comfortable and happy playing it  

27 minutes ago, visog said:

So we're ~60 years into the electric bass as a four-string and as of the '80s we acquired five and six strings. Subsequently we got sevens and further extended range basses. Do we have a commensurate jump in musical quality or bass playing as a result?

No, and we don't have to. Aside of being a pretty silly assumption to make (how 'much' better musical quality or bass playing per-string we should get? What's the "get good cost" of adding any string more than the 4 you already have? Have you earned your 4 already then, or should you be better off playing a 2 strings bass? ) It's literally the same instrument sonically, if you use the same notes as a four stringer. 

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I'm struggling to manifest many examples: Anthony Jackson and John Patitucci spring to mind. Gary Willis and Hadrien Feraud rock a five but their output is hardly mainstream.

Nobody of those amazing musicians is what I'd consider 'mainstream'. The thing is, you're very likely to have heard someone play a 5 or 6 in some actual mainstream record without even realising it (because they're not using the extended range if not needed). In my example here, the job could have been done with a 4, obviously. Who cares? Again, they're doing the same exact job and can sound identical.

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My prog' heroes are four-stringers by and large with Squire dipping into fives and sixes for his less inspirational 90s and 00s output.

Just sayin'. Views and counter-examples welcome but I'm calling it: more strings does not make better music! (Sorry if I'm late to this party.)

Obviously more strings do not make better music.

I can make better music with two beaten up pans and my fists, than a Steinwey piano with 88 keys that nobody's playing. It's just logic and common sense.

Or, I could sit down at the piano, and rock a 30 min set with two chords and two notes.

Or, I could sit down at the piano, and rock a 30 min set while going through all of Beethoven symphonies, sped up thrice just because I'm bored. 

The instrument doesn't define the music.

Play what makes you feel good and enjoy. If you like playing in a bluegrass band with a metal pointy 31 strings bass, as long as everyone in the band agrees, have at it!  Just don't ruin the songs by starting going ham on the instrument! (Which is something lots of 4 strings players are culprit of too...so again, poor number of strings. What has it done to you?)

 

Edit: The end of my point being, where has it brought us? To different tonal palettes in some parts of music (like with the people you mentioned) and in the future, who knows who/what else!

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by akabane

[Maude]

@akabane replied as I was typing and has pretty much echoed my thoughts, so saved me typing any more. 👍

[Dad3353]

/thread 

[Barking Spiders]

One of my bass faves is Bill Dickens who plays his 7 string Conklin a lot.  I don't wanna upset a lot of BCers here so i won't include a clip of him speed slapping the funk out of it 😏. He does use the full range of possibilities on it though.

[4000]

I don’t care how many strings (or even what instrument) someone uses, but I will say that the only name bassist I can think of off the top of my head who I really like and who consistently uses more than 4 strings is Matt Garrison. Edit: Richard Bona too.

Edited July 9, 2020 by 4000

[Drax]

1 hour ago, visog said:

So we're ~60 years into the electric bass as a four-string and as of the '80s we acquired five and six strings. Subsequently we got sevens and further extended range basses. Do we have a commensurate jump in musical quality or bass playing as a result?

If you can share with us your measure 'musical quality' and 'bass playing' .. ! 

[Woodinblack]

Quite right. And I would extend that. What good was the modern motor car? I mean, we could get round just fine in a car from the 1960s couldn't we? I mean they don't do any more than they used to? And the colour television set, the programs aren't any better these days are they?

But to be fair, the 4 string bass made a drastic decline in music quality. I mean there haven't been many beethovens and Tchaikovskys since we had the electric bass have there? No, its all 'she loves me, yeh, yeh yeh' and boom boom boom. 

And hey you kids, get off my lawn!! ah.. bring back national service, that will learn them!

[paul_5]

Extended range basses are perfect for certain situations; doubling synth bass lines in the 80s would have been much more difficult without being able to go lower than E. 

 

Horses for courses.

[dmccombe7]

I prefer playing 4 stringers but i have fav players that use 4, 5 and 6. Many situations where that low B string helps the feel of a song and gives it a bit more depth. On the other hand i enjoy listening to some guys using a high C string on a 6er when playing chords.

I wouldn't say there's been a commensurate jump in music but more a development..

Dave

 

[sykilz]

I recently got 'into' the band Gojira ( I'm 51, give me a break....) and their stuff sounds like it's all done on the low end of a five string, but all the youtube videos show the bassist using a regular 4 string P bass, so guess the 5er isn't all that necessary. Also some of my favourites are Soundgarden and Alice in Chains, who both just use detuned 4 stringers rather than a 5. 

[drTStingray]

1 hour ago, paul_5 said:

Extended range basses are perfect for certain situations; doubling synth bass lines in the 80s would have been much more difficult without being able to go lower than E. 

 

Horses for courses.

This is absolutely true - in fact this is largely the reason for 5 string basses becoming popular - there was a time in the early 80s when bassists and especially drummers were running very scared that keyboards and drum machines were taking a lot of the work. (Producers loved drum machines as many live drummers were unable to avoid plastering fills everywhere - whilst many got replaced in semi pro bands for the same reason and the fact many social clubs got noise detectors which many drummers were incapable of not setting off, cutting off the electricity and wrecking the guitarist's expensive valves - plus one less person to share the fee with 😏)

5 strings have been ideal for that keyboard based work from the 80s and 90s and even up to date, much theatre music is written with 5 string in mind. 

So maybe 5 string basses helped to repell the keyboard onslaught in the 80s. It's only in the last 20-25 yrs that 4 string basses have become universally popular again, in some ways eventually regressing to where bass was in the late 60s!! Bass actually became a sexy instrument in the later 70s - Jaco/Stanley and others!!

Definitely horses for courses - I'm happy to use a 5 string on any gig - they help with their 2 octaves over 5 frets ability - plus being the brass section's friend by being able to agree on playing a number of Stevie Wonder songs in the correct key (Eb), rather than the guitarist's favourite - E (which prevents proper bass voicing on a 4 string unless it's down tuned!!).

I'd say it's given us a lot of flexibility where required or desired. I wouldn't be without one (or a 4 string; or a fretless....) 😄

[alyctes]

IMO the major use of a 5 is to make playing easier (two octaves almost under the hand). 

So I disagree; because making it easier to play means that the players can make music more easily.

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 6, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Dan Dare]

I've just got my first 5 after 40+ years of playing a 4. I shan't be switching over entirely, but it's useful to have the fundamentals when you're playing in D and C. I'm getting to grips with muting at the moment - having to remember to move the thumb across to cover the B and E strings to prevent them from droning sympathetically. Good fun.

[chris_b]

4 hours ago, visog said:

Just sayin'. Views and counter-examples welcome but I'm calling it: more strings does not make better music! (Sorry if I'm late to this party.)

Well you've got me just saying and wondering why anyone else gives a flying flip how many strings are on my basses!!

[funkypenguin]

6 hours ago, visog said:

So we're ~60 years into the electric bass as a four-string and as of the '80s we acquired five and six strings. Subsequently we got sevens and further extended range basses. Do we have a commensurate jump in musical quality or bass playing as a result?

I'm struggling to manifest many examples: Anthony Jackson and John Patitucci spring to mind. Gary Willis and Hadrien Feraud rock a five but their output is hardly mainstream.

My prog' heroes are four-stringers by and large with Squire dipping into fives and sixes for his less inspirational 90s and 00s output.

Just sayin'. Views and counter-examples welcome but I'm calling it: more strings does not make better music! (Sorry if I'm late to this party.)

The number of strings has no impact on increasing the players ability, in fact 5 and 6 strings are harder to play for various reasons, muting and string crossing being two. ive seen wonderful players on 4 strings and awful players on 5/6 strings. Its what the player does with the instrument that counts...

Following on from that, musical quality is entirely subjective. Most of my heroes on the bass (Anthony Jackson, Tony Grey, Damian Erskine, John Patitucci, John Myung, Rich Brown etc. etc.) all play 6 string so I would say that the 6 string bass has gotten us a long way....if you don't dig any of their music you may have a different opinion!

Edited July 10, 2020 by funkypenguin

[Graham]

There are certain musicians who make full use of extended range instruments and where it's completely incorporated into the music they produce, so a four string wouldn't work at all - Steve Lawson and Dylan Desmond of Bell Witch are two that jump to mind. Six and seven string bassists respectively, their music would be impossible on a four string.

Then there are guys like me, who're exclusively five string players, who's heroes are almost all four string players, but do so as a way to make "normal" bass playing easier.

The point is, I am a five string bassist, I play better on a five, am more inspired by a five and find it easier to transpose keys on a five - leading to more work. So from my purely subjective viewpoint, yes, extended range basses have lead to better music.

[Bill Wy,Aye,Man]

Surely the bass guitar is 85 years old, starting with Paul Tutmarc's Audiovox Bass Fiddle in 1935, and Fenders 5 string bass is from the 60s

[OliverBlackman]

11 hours ago, visog said:

I'm struggling to manifest many examples: Anthony Jackson and John Patitucci spring to mind. Gary Willis and Hadrien Feraud rock a five but their output is hardly mainstream.

A lot of gospel is played on 5/6 and often musicals are written for 5 string. It just gives more options to the player/ composer and is widely available now.

 If you follow the lee sklar vids on YT he uses his 5 string Dingwalls a fair bit too.

[Burns-bass]

Any bass is a good bass.

I’m not a huge fan of endless widdling on a bass, but that’s as pointless and indulgent on a 4 string as it is on a 5 and a 6.

Play it, love it and gig it!

Edited July 10, 2020 by Burns-bass

[HazBeen]

Lots of players use 5 or more, especially if we look @ modern Rap/Soul, Metal and any synth based Pop. But a 4 gets you most of the notes a 5 or 6 gives you, so for many the extra strings are not needed. But on any number you will find examples of greatness and lack therof, it’s in the fingers not the strings.

[binky_bass]

@visog, as someone who plays only 6+ string basses, I must ask you - why even ask this question? What concern is it of yours to assume there's no merit in having any more strings just because you don't play anything past 4 strings? That's akin to saying 'I don't understand why you don't like mustard, I like mustard therefore surely everyone else must like it too'. People are different, choice is a beautiful thing.

I enjoy playing 6+ string basses because a 4 string simply can't do what I enjoy playing. Extended chords and tap style is far more conducive to a 6 than it is to a 4. And yes, I'm sure there's plenty of 'tappers' who make do with 4 strings, there's also some cyclists that prefer a unicycle.

At the end of the day, you might no be able to see past 4 strings, that doesn't mean we all have to be so closed minded! 

This is always an utterly moot arguement whenever someone has raised it. Do your own thing, I'll do mine, and let's be happy that we're both happy with our choices! 

Edited July 10, 2020 by binky_bass

[itu]

Let's start with a picture that is over 300 years old:

You can see frets and seven strings in the hands of Marin Marais. How do you see the bass has really evolved over time?

Double basses and basses have this ancestor called viola da gamba. (Gamba family is not the same as violin family. Double bass is definitely not a big violin. NO!) We know that gambas and double basses have had several strings as well as frets. Players have used bow and certainly different kinds of plectra. Again, what is new here? Is four strings actually a step backwards, or rather a simplification of the instrument?

Maybe a bigger question is that even the one string washtub basses have been used with success. It is not the instrument, but the player. Technology does not make music, we do.