Your thoughts about and experience with using high gain bass distortion?

[Baloney Balderdash]

Have you managed to get at least close to what you believe might be the ultimate high gain bass distortion setup, and would like to share how you approached it, or do you just want to share your general thoughts about this topic, then this thread would be a chance to do so.

 

I for one think I may have found the ultimate high gain distortion tone for me, at least for the musical project I am currently working on .

I know that these days it seems popular to split you bass signal up in a lower clean register and a parallel upper frequency register distorted signal and then mix the 2 signals together, or even use a separate wet and dry rig to do so, but personally I don't really subscribe to that recipe. 

As an example of a professional bass player who doesn't use this approach either I know Lou Barlow from Dinosaur Jr. doesn't either.

As far as goes for his heavy overdriven tone, which in my opinion sounds awesome, at least live he overdrive both his lows and highs and then leave his mids clean, though he doesn't exactly isolate the specific frequencies either, starting by splitting his bass signal up in 3 separate parallel paths, one path going to an overdriven Xotic Bass BB Preamp boosting a Ampeg SVT, for kind of his lower register overdrive tone, then a second path going to an old solid state mids heavy Peavey bass amp, which he runs clean for his sort of mid frequency tone, and finally a third parallel path runs his bass signal through an overdriven Marshall JCM 800, for a more upper frequency emphasized overdrive tone .

All 3 signals just kind of mixed and overlapping a lot frequency wise, without any kind of fancy crossover or further EQ filtering going on, just as they come out of the separate cabinets of the 3 amps, and the result os an absolutely crushing, yet quite well defined, fairly heavy overdriven main bass tone.

Anyway back to the topic of my personal take on heavy bass distortion, as said, I think I finally managed to nail the perfect tone for me.

Mind though that this is specifically for a sort of progressive psychedelic stoner rock project of mine that I am currently working on some songs for, and since the plan is for my bass to be the main instrument of this project, with the additional primary instrumentation predominantly consisting of just drums/percussion and vocals, though with some more sparingly added extra instrumentation that exclusively is going to serve a secondary, more flavor oriented, function, also the bass lines for this project typically won't primarily have a supporting function as otherwise is the most common traditional role of bass, but will serve a much more structural dominant and explicit melodic role, and doesn't necessarily strictly has to fill out the traditional sonic spectrum of a bass either, for one it is tuned 2 half steps above regular 4 string, E standard tuning, as in F# standard tuning, F#1 to A2, like the 4 lowest strings of an 8 string guitar, and is further more run through an always on polyphonic octaver, adding a 1 octave up effect in addition to the regular bass signal, giving an effect similar to that of an 8 string "octave" bass, with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings.

This of course does give me some more freedom of choice regarding my high gain distortion tone, compared to if I needed to still primarily fill out the more common traditional role of a bass.

What I managed to achieve is a massively heavy and absolutely thunderous crushing distortion tone with a quite raunchy fuzz-esque quality, but at the same time having a grinding somewhat clanky overdriven edge that actually prevents it from getting too muddy, despite a lot of low end heavy distortion going on, and which contributes to the distortion still having a great deal of well articulated definition.

The first attributes to a Moksy Black Rat, Rat clone, in Vintage mode (classic Rat type distortion), with the gain turned about half way up (which would actually equal to a fairly high gain distortion tone), and the high end slightly rolled off, though still enough to give it some of that typical raunchy fuzz-esque grid of a classic Rat type distortion, stacked in front of a Joyo California Sound, which is a Tech 21 California preamp pedal clone, meant to emulate a Mesa Boogie type amp/drive, and which is fairly dark voiced, set to a medium gain but quite hefty kind of overdrive, both placed in parallel effects Loop A of my Boss LS-2 (parallel effect loops mixer/switch pedal), and the latter attributes to a Joyo Orange Juice, which is essentially a seriously sized down and scraped clone version of the Tech 21 Oxford preamp pedal, meant to emulate an Orange type amp/drive, set to a somewhat clanky and quite grinding kind of medium overdrive, placed in parallel effects Loop B of the LS-2.

Loop A and Loop B is then mixed together at an about a 50/50 ratio, and actually kind of fusing relatively smoothly/seamlessly together, without ending up sounding like 2 distinctly different signals sitting on top of each other  (which is kind of my biggest issue with how the popular clean bottom/distorted top approach often end up sounding), but as said, with the grinding, relatively bright sounding, medium gain overdrive from the Orange Juice preventing the quite bottom heavy, raunchy and fuzzy, high gain distortion from turning into a muddy blurry mess, but in fact actually ends up making it sound surprisingly well defined and articulate. 

I realize this is a lot of relatively abstract explaining, filled with more or less vague adjectives that people will have no possible chance to get any kind of verification of, but I hope it might still be of at least some interest and inspiration to some people, and I will try to pull myself together to actually record some audio samples of my miked up rig, demonstrating how this actually sounds in reality in the nearest future, and update this post with some links to the uploaded examples of my high gain distortion tone.   

 

In the meantime I hope others will contribute to this thread with their thoughts about and personal approach to high gain bass distortion, and even though I initially failed to provide any actual audio examples to back up my words, I hope others might be more capable of maybe delivering some audio clips or videos to back up their thoughts and claims on this topic. 

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Baloney Balderdash

[Cuzzie]

Tech21 DP3X pedal

Tech21 dUg Ultrabass 1000 amp

Tech21 PSA 2.0
 

This will gives you all you needs

[Cuzzie]

I did run a heavy clean tone via the Two Notes LeBass and Hartke VXL Cali76G compressor stacked into a KMA Audio Machines - The Tyler, and blended in the parallel loop Demon Pedals The Pavati and MXR Bass Chorus Deluxe.

This gave A punchy and massive clean tone with as much nasty on top as you wanted to dial in, and chorus to modulate it - worked a dream.

I built it as 2 separate boards linked so I could take either and use on their own.

Loved that Sound, but ultimately what I listed above gave me most of that when you learn to dial it in, tinker how you play and also subtle changes in different pick ups.

[Baloney Balderdash]

21 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Tech21 DP3X pedal

Tech21 dUg Ultrabass 1000 amp

Tech21 PSA 2.0
 

This will gives you all you needs

Well, as I wrote I am not a subscriber to the otherwise very popular clean bottom/distorted top end solution, and have somewhat other specific needs regarding high gain distortion tone, partially due to how I tend to use my bass.

The units you mentioned are fine options for someone who are after that type of dirt effect though.

One should probably be aware though that the Tech21 DP3X, due to how the build in crossover works, kind of leaves a hole in the mids, neither filled out by clean or distorted signal, which might or might not expose an issue, or even be a desired feature, depending on what it is you are aiming to achieve and the context it is used in.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Baloney Balderdash

[Stub Mandrel]

See my avatar.

[itu]

I use distortion quite sparingly, but I like it every now and then. Tried several (read: many!) units, but when I found pedal x-overs, my understanding changed drastically. I have an IE Divaricator and had a KMA Tyler. When the x-over frequency is low enough (mine is at around 400 Hz), the lows keep coming through but there is space for quite some distortion. Even some famous but pretty bad sounding (to my ears, that is) units became useful. And I need the lows to my sound.

X-over gives new dimensions to other effects, too. Chorus, flanger...

Edited July 15, 2020 by itu

[Cuzzie]

5 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Well, as I wrote I am not a subscriber to the otherwise very popular clean bottom/distorted top end solution, and have somewhat other specific needs regarding high gain distortion tone, partially due to how I tend to use my bass.

The units you mentioned are fine options for someone who are after that type of dirt effect though.

One should probably be aware though that the Tech21 DP3X, due to how it works, kind of leaves a hole in the mids, neither filled out by clean or distorted signal, which might or might not be a problem, or even a desired feature, depending on what it is you try to achieve. 

With the greatest respect how much have you used the 3 units?

The DP3X does not leave a ‘hole’ if you are smart with it, it certainly let’s other instruments breathe so you are not scrabbling for the same sonic space, yes there is a fixed crossover, but it’s not all fizzy top.

The amp gives you way more control over Mids, frequencies, hpf etc - so again It’s not a 1 trick pony.

The PSA is not as you describe but has intuitive controls to punch/distort the frequencies you want.

The units are way more versatile than you make out

[Cuzzie]

8 minutes ago, itu said:

I use distortion quite sparingly, but I like it every now and then. Tried several (read: many!) units, but when I found pedal x-overs, my understanding changed drastically. I have an IE Divaricator and had a KMA Tyler. When the x-over frequency is low enough (mine is at around 400 Hz), the lows keep coming through but there is space for quite some distortion. Even some famous but pretty bad sounding (to my ears, that is) units became useful. And I need the lows to my sound.

X-over gives new dimensions to other effects, too. Chorus, flanger...

You cannot underestimate how good The Tyler is, I have used it in loads of configurations, it really is great to play with and opens up a great sonic landscape

[Baloney Balderdash]

53 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

With the greatest respect how much have you used the 3 units?

The DP3X does not leave a ‘hole’ if you are smart with it, it certainly let’s other instruments breathe so you are not scrabbling for the same sonic space, yes there is a fixed crossover, but it’s not all fizzy top.

The amp gives you way more control over Mids, frequencies, hpf etc - so again It’s not a 1 trick pony.

The PSA is not as you describe but has intuitive controls to punch/distort the frequencies you want.

The units are way more versatile than you make out

You obviously didn't bother to read my admittedly quite wordy OP.

The fact is that there's an area somewhere in the mid frequency spectrum that the crossover of the DP3X simply doesn't cover, no matter how you set it there will always be that gab with no signal, but as I also pointed out that isn't necessarily a bad thing and might even be desirable in certain situations, but regardless of weather it will be a desirable effect in the context you plan to use it in or expose an issue for you in a different context I think it really is a piece of information people should know about this unit before buying it. 

The fizzy highs will be on your own account entirely, I mentioned that absolutely nowhere. 

Neither did I say anything about any kind of ponies. 

But if you had bothered reading my OP I actually think you would probably had been able to understand that with my bass as the primary and often only driving melodic instrument, beside vocals, in the specific context that I use it, I would personally most of the time want my bass to fill out as much sonic space as possible, as there would by far most of the time be literally no other instruments to really leave any sonic space to, beside drums and percussion.

No need to get offended because the approach you use, that I by the way have no doubt works perfectly well for the music you play, wouldn't work as well in the context of the music I happen to play.

It seems to me like you are suggesting that there is only 1 right way to approach this that will work absolutely perfectly and flawlessly in any possible given situation and context, and to be frank with you to me that seems like pure utter nonsense.  

Non of the pedals you suggested can do and even less sound anything like the setup I use and described in my OP, that is not to say that they are somehow bad pedals in any possible way, or that everyone else should do exactly the same as I did, and will have no use of those other pedals, that is just to say that those pedals won't do what I need them to do and that what I did is what works for me in the context I happen to use it in.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Baloney Balderdash

[Cuzzie]

40 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

You obviously didn't bother to read my admittedly quite wordy OP.

The fact is that there's an area somewhere in the mid frequency spectrum that the crossover of the DP3X simply doesn't cover, no matter how you set it there will always be that gab with no signal, but as I also pointed out that isn't necessarily a bad thing and might even be desirable in certain situations, but regardless of weather it will be a desirable effect in the context you plan to use it in or expose an issue for you in a different context I think it really is a piece of information people should know about this unit before buying it. 

The fizzy highs will be on your own account entirely, I mentioned that absolutely nowhere. 

Neither did I say anything about any kind of ponies. 

But if you had bothered reading my OP I actually think you would probably had been able to understand that with my bass as the primary and often only driving melodic instrument, beside vocals, in the specific context that I use it, I would personally most of the time want my bass to fill out as much sonic space as possible, as there would by far most of the time be literally no other instruments to really leave any sonic space to, beside drums and percussion.

 No need to get offended because the approach you use, that I by the way have no doubt works perfectly well for the music you play, wouldn't work as well in the context of the music I happen to play.

It seems to me like you are suggesting that there is only 1 right way to approach this that will work absolutely perfectly and flawlessly in any possible given situation and context, and to be frank with you to me that seems like pure utter nonsense.  

Non of the pedals you suggested can do and even less sound anything like the setup I use and described in my OP, that is not to say that they are somehow bad pedals in any possible way, or that everyone else should do exactly the same as I did, and will have no use of those other pedals, that is just to say that those pedals won't do what I need them to do and that what I did is what works for me in the context I happen to use it in.

I have read all of your posts carefully and in their entirety, and I take no offence about my approach, and am not protective of any of my gear wishing people should like it, admittedly the Tech21 posts were short (trying to multi-task) but I have also given an alternative with a completely different set up.
 

DP3X-there is so much out there about it and cavernous holes in the mids, or that baked tech21 sansamp sound that is frankly not right. Loads of people will say that you cannot use the same mix and clean settings, but I have found settings that I can use, and key even using the dialled in chunk and drive sound is how you use your tone knob to get the balance right. I can’t even tell you the countless hours spent with P, Jazz, 2 buckers, graphite and wood basses and a 12 string tweaking the knobs in millimetres of increments to get to know what it can do across its range. This is before you even look at stacking the pedal with other things which I have done.

PSA 2.0 - if you know how this works then you know it’s completely different to the DP3X and does not give that mid ‘space’ and not hole as people say, and again the crunch/punch/buzz work not individually but in tandem across frequencies before we get to the EQ and Drive.

The Ultrabass is an amp, not a pedal, and that as well as having the upper layer distortion that you can dial in has control over many more features in the EQ

For example

 

Thats before we mention the second post I did mentioning a completely different signal chain similar to what @itu has some experience with.

All this through flat ‘FRFR’ cabs and coloured ones.

There is also the Darkglass journey through their pedals and how they are unfairly pigeonholed into metal, but can do so much more.
I have had a chance to mess about with the Battering Ram as well.

What I am saying is that’s what I use (which is what you asked for in your OP) and just as you pointed out ‘stereotypes’ of the pedal it’s my experience That I can counter that view as over stated either using the pedal in isolation or stacking.

This is before we even start talking germanium vs silicon diodes etc.

I take no offence to your view, if you take no offence to me not agreeing with you on their uses and what they can do!

But before the pedals and amp can be dismissed, it’s not unfair of me to ask have you dismissed them via extensive trial and error?

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Cuzzie

[Baloney Balderdash]

3 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

I have read all of your posts carefully and in their entirety, and I take no offence about my approach, and am not protective of any of my gear wishing people should like it, admittedly the Tech21 posts were short (trying to multi-task) but I have also given an alternative with a completely different set up.
 

DP3X-there is so much out there about it and cavernous holes in the mids, or that baked tech21 sansamp sound that is frankly not right. Loads of people will say that you cannot use the same mix and clean settings, but I have found settings that I can use, and key even using the dialled in chunk and drive sound is how you use your tone knob to get the balance right. I can’t even tell you the countless hours spent with P, Jazz, 2 buckers, graphite and wood basses and a 12 string tweaking the knobs in millimetres of increments to get to know what it can do across its range. This is before you even look at stacking the pedal with other things which I have done.

PSA 2.0 - if you know how this works then you know it’s completely different to the DP3X and does not give that mid ‘space’ and not hole as people say, and again the crunch/punch/buzz work not individually but in tandem across frequencies before we get to the EQ and Drive.

The Ultrabass is an amp, not a pedal, and that as well as having the upper layer distortion that you can dial in has control over many more features in the EQ

For example

 

Thats before we mention the second post I did mentioning a completely different signal chain similar to what @itu has some experience with.

All this through flat ‘FRFR’ cabs and coloured ones.

There is also the Darkglass journey through their pedals and how they are unfairly pigeonholed into metal, but can do so much more.
I have had a chance to mess about with the Battering Ram as well.

What I am saying is that’s what I use (which is what you asked for in your OP) and just as you pointed out ‘stereotypes’ of the pedal it’s my experience That I can counter that view as over stated either using the pedal in isolation or stacking.

This is before we even start talking germanium vs silicon diodes etc.

I take no offence to your view, if you take no offence to me not agreeing with you on their uses and what they can do!

But before the pedals and amp can be dismissed, it’s not unfair of me to ask have you dismissed them via extensive trial and error?

 

Admittedly I did let my assumptions get the best of me there, and as it often is with assumptions they turned out to be a bit hit and miss, rather randomly, and mostly misses in this case it seems.

I apologize for that.

And no, I haven't actually got any first hand experience with any of those units, but as far as I can tell from the controls and manual of the Tech21 DP3X the build in crossover does in fact leave an empty gab somewhere in the mid frequency spectrum, weather you then chose to call it breathing space, room for improvement or Harry Fonder's imaginary unborn son from an alternate universe.

Strictly though, as I haven't actually tried it in person, I can't really say exactly how it would actually work in real use, but I can only imagine that it likely could turn out to respectively either be just the right thing or potentially ending up exposing more or less of an issue, depending on the context.

The demos I've watched featuring it admittedly actually sounded quite good, even if it still didn't seem to be a pedal I likely personally would have much use of.

Regardless Tech 21 certainly do offer a wide range of very interesting products, some of which I personally wouldn't mind owning either, though the 3 you mention is not among those I am glad they work for you.

Yes, indeed this thread was intended as a place to share people's personal experience with, thoughts about and solutions to utilizing dirt effects in their bass setup, mainly high gain distortion, I guess I just misinterpreted your initial post pretty badly, and kind of let my assumptions take the lead from there and onwards, sorry about that.

I am actually kind of intrigued by the Oxford and the Leeds pedals from the old Tech 21 Character series of analog amp emulators/preamps, though those two specific ones unfortunately have been discontinued, and the clone version that Joyo makes of the Oxford one, the Orange Juice, even though I love it, they chose to size down considerably for some reason, and in that process shaved down the 3 band EQ section of the original to just a standard Tone control, though they did keep Character control, just labeled Voice instead on the Joyo clone, and to my knowledge no clones exist of the Leeds.

I could also possible see myself potentially having use of the Geddy Lee YYZ Preamp in a more regular band context, if I should ever find myself in such again, quite liked the demos I watched featuring it, and the SH-1 Steve Harris Signature pedal kind of temps me as well, though in the end I would probably end up finding alternatives elsewhere that would be better suited for my taste and needs.

For one the new Trace Elliot Transit B preamp would have much higher priority as part of a possible future ampless rig, as I absolutely love that classic Trace Elliot tone, and then pared with some sort of decent cab simulator with the option for using third party IR's.

But really for now I am actually genuinely satisfied with the rig I got, honestly can't say that I can imagine any obvious improvements to how my bass, pickup, pedal effects, amp and cab sounds and works for me, seems to really meet all my expectations and needs, at least for that solo project I mentioned in my OP that I am currently focusing on, and that even if the majority of my bass rig consists of relatively cheap gear.

Can't exactly say that I found the cure for GAS though, or managed to break the illusion of the much greener grass on the neigbor's lawn, so there will always be that perpetual persistence itch that scratching will only sooth momentarily, though I think the most sensible thing to do in my current situation gear wise would be just to keep what I got now, and then as the next thing aim to get, well first a proper pedal board to mount my pedals on, as I always have just carried them around in a bag, and then as part of the same pursuit to improve ease of transportation and free mobility of my gear, just get a good preamp to my liking, as well as a quality cab sim to go with it, in order to make it possible for me to carry everything I need for jams and eventual gigs on my person, making a gigbag for my bass, a shoulder bag for my pedal board, and eventual a backpack for additional pieces of gear, all I really will need in order to transport my entire rig, freeing me from being dependent on available car rides and the struggle of having to carry and set up heavy amps and cabs.

Well.... 

That kind of wen't far far off topic. 

I guess the essence though was just an apology to you for letting my assumptions get the best of me, somehow mysteriously straying off into the spinoff conclusion  that I already got everything I really need, and if I am being perfectly honest with myself actually even genuinely love how works for me too, so instead of continuing to pursuit the illusion of imaginary improvements, that ultimately will just conclude in disappointments and utter waste of money, I really ought to instead focus on investing in utilities that will make the gear that I already own easier and more practical to use, as in improve mobility of it, easing setup and transport.   

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Baloney Balderdash

[Cuzzie]

Wow that was a long one!

Tired eyes only skim read that, will read properly tomorrow, but no need to apologise at all, I have thick skin and was not offended in any way, I thought it was assumptions and like you I was putting an alternate view out there for anyone thinking of looking at the pedals/amp I listed.

Classic example is the Two Notes LeBass - many think because it has a B dirt channel, that’s it’s main purpose, but it’s not, the clean A channel and a ‘clean’ B channel (you can add a little hair) are where things are magic.

What is really good and versatile is stacking them so that at a click of a button there are a variety of sounds. The DP3X into the dug amp is huge!

Certainly the stuff you have is interesting and I’ll Have a proper look tomorrow.

I love a bit of a preamp and I love a bit of distortion

[Cuzzie]

You are right about being money conscious and being selective - there are many things I will just say no to, that could have worked.

I would love a Fractal FM3, but that is a massive rabbit hole......

[akabane]

Wow, a lot of talk on how to achieve an awesome high gain dist sound, with people saying "yeah I achieved this amazing sound, it breaks boulders and retains bottom end and high gain highs its fantastic", and nobody posting even a 4 second clip of their sounds or reference sounds they'd like to get? Is it just me? 🤣

[Baloney Balderdash]

15 minutes ago, akabane said:

Wow, a lot of talk on how to achieve an awesome high gain dist sound, with people saying "yeah I achieved this amazing sound, it breaks boulders and retains bottom end and high gain highs its fantastic", and nobody posting even a 4 second clip of their sounds or reference sounds they'd like to get? Is it just me? 🤣

It's not just you, and in fact I did mention and acknowledge that in my OP, and I did in fact conclude it by encouraging people to post audio clip examples and with a promise to do so myself at a later point. 

When that is said I don't actually think posts without audio clips are in fact totally useless, but actual may still be of some real interest and inspiration for some people.

After all people post claims about how awesome this or that effect, bass or amp is, on this as well as just about any other similar internet forum, all the time, without backing it up with sound clips, and that without anyone pointing it out as being an issue. 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Baloney Balderdash

[Cuzzie]

I am sure that people will come up with stuff, but maybe people are out and about with living a bit of life after lockdown!?!
 

As my discussion with the OP earlier someone could post a clip, but it’s using just 1 setting off a pedal or group of pedals, it may miss nuances of interaction - it’s really difficult to Do and do properly across the whole range of something

[itu]

Awesome and awesome, I have had experiences with several systems and units. The issues with audio clips is the possibility to record one, and then describe the difference with some other choice. Without any comparison, one clip can be meaningless.

It is true my text is far less than audio, but my possibilities to make a reasonable recording are simply limited.

[thodrik]

In short, if I was doing what the OP was doing I would be looking at a biamp system with different EQs and different effects going to the different amps. Given that the OP is tuning 'up' rather than tuning down, I would definitely be looking at an octave pedal or something like a digitech whammy or pitchshifter. However, once you start using so many different fuzzes the fuzzes can actually start cancelling each other out rather than creating a big wall of sound. It needs careful thought and balancing and what works at a gig might not work for recording and vice versa. 

Sometimes however, the best high gain bass sound involves very few pedals whatsoever. Just get a valve amp, crank the gain and add a fuzz/boost. It won't be subtle, it won't be nuanced, it won't be practical for rehearsal, recording or gigging at semi-reasonable volume levels,  but it will be very very loud. 

Anyhoo, stoner rock bands using bass as main melodic instrument or similar are fairly common. One of my more obscure favourites are a German band called Beehoover.  I think that the bassist used/uses a five or six string bass and at couple of fuzzes stacked into different signal paths. 
 

 

[Baloney Balderdash]

16 hours ago, thodrik said:

In short, if I was doing what the OP was doing I would be looking at a biamp system with different EQs and different effects going to the different amps. Given that the OP is tuning 'up' rather than tuning down, I would definitely be looking at an octave pedal or something like a digitech whammy or pitchshifter. However, once you start using so many different fuzzes the fuzzes can actually start cancelling each other out rather than creating a big wall of sound. It needs careful thought and balancing and what works at a gig might not work for recording and vice versa. 

Sometimes however, the best high gain bass sound involves very few pedals whatsoever. Just get a valve amp, crank the gain and add a fuzz/boost. It won't be subtle, it won't be nuanced, it won't be practical for rehearsal, recording or gigging at semi-reasonable volume levels,  but it will be very very loud. 

Anyhoo, stoner rock bands using bass as main melodic instrument or similar are fairly common. One of my more obscure favourites are a German band called Beehoover.  I think that the bassist used/uses a five or six string bass and at couple of fuzzes stacked into different signal paths. 
 

 

To start with the music you posted, I wasn't aware of the existence of this band, but I actually quite like the music, though the vocals kind of ruin it for me, but that is just me, I am pretty picky about music.

Also pretty far from the kind of music I have in mind for my project, though it won't exactly be traditional stoner rock either, but in a way more minimal and far less chord based way, and perhaps more experimental way too.

Although it's not going to sound like OM at all either, it will be considerably closer to that kind of thing, than the example you posted.

Here's one of my favorite tracks by them, though this is not from their early days where the instrumentation was really almost exclusively consisting of just bass, drums and vocals, since a lot more has been added into their sound, as in this one:

 

Also while a simple loud ultra distorted setup no doubt would generally likely work great for bass driven stoner rock type music, it wouldn't really work either for what I have in mind.

While my high gain distortion will definitely be one of my more used effects it won't exactly be a predominant effect that will be on by by far most of the time.

And as for how it sounds I kind of found what worked for me, with my setup and the type of music I had in mind creating, by a lot of trial and error and not least using my ears, there wasn't really much acoustic theory involved in my experiments, so theory is really not something I am concerned about, I set it up this particular way because it is what sounds good and works for/to me, so kind of don't care about people telling me reasons why it works poorly in theory when my ears tells me a completely different story, after all it's music I am working with, not theoretical science. 

As for your suggestion of using an octaver, I did indeed originally, and when I wrote the OP run my bass signal through an always on octave effect, giving an effect somewhat similar to that of an 8 string octave bass, with pairs of bass and octave strings, but recently discovered that unless I wanted to go down the road of running the octave up signal in completely separate chain and use separate effects for that, which would evolve into more of a step dance of turning pedals on and off, I actually got better results just keeping to my plain bass tone, of course then combined with the other effects I use for it.

Even though this will mainly just be my bass, played clean, overdriven, distorted and through various mod effects and delay at times, drums/percussion and vocals, with some extra more sparingly added instrumentation and ambient effect, exclusively having a more flavor oriented function, the octave up just kind of sounded messy and not just right when run through effects, even if I actually managed to get a pretty clean, extremely low latency, fairly natural sounding octave up tone, without any glitches or digital artifacts, using the Toneprint editor EQ options of my Sub'N'Up Mini, and to be honest I discovered I kind of even liked my clean bass tone more without the added octave as well. 

Also I did in fact start out using a 5 string Mikro bass for this project, also with the lowest note being a F#1, as on my 4 string, but with an added upper D3, but as I found I rarely really utilized the extra upper register in my compositions anyway, and kind of liked playing my 4 string better, as well as I actually also really liked the very idea of it just being a regular 4 string bass, even if tuned 2 half steps above regular 4 string, E standard, tuning, that keeping things fairly minimal aspect again coming in play, I settled for just using my beloved 4 string Mikro.

I do in fact have a pretty clear idea of where this is going, even if I am still just working on the bass parts for the songs so far, but I guess they are going to play the lead tole anyway too.

Something about a fairly minimal sound, with few things going on at the same time, a lot of space, but quite melodic and with the actual sound/tone of what is going on playing a big part, hence why I also use quite a fairly wide array of effects for my bass, and I guess the progressive aspect mainly comes in with the fact that my riffs just often happens to turn out to be in odd time signatures and that it often seems to want to shift over the course of a song.  

I guess kind of think very early Pink Floyd but with the musical aesthetics of the band Low, then put that into a more stoner and metal type of music context with some progressive attributes, and with the instrumentation I have in mind utilizing, if that makes sense.

I did end up making some changes to my overdrive and distortion setup too though, as a natural part of things that kind of worked for the fake 8 string "octave" bass tone not working quite as well for just a regular bass tone, but it's really fairly minimal EQ adjustments mostly, as well as I ended up running my Rat clone in Turbo mode, instead of Vintage mode, and turned up the gain of the California Sound overdrive it goes into a bit, but I am fairly confident that I pretty much got my rig in it's final form now,  likely only with maybe fairly minor changes happening at some future point when I get closer to start the actual recordings.

One thing I will try to add though is a Behringer SF300 Super Fuzz (generally praised, but super cheap, Boss FZ-2/Univox Super Fuzz, octave fuzz, clone) that I should get in the mail tomorrow, and that I am going to experiment with how will sound on it's own mixed with clean and eventually which of my other dirt pedals it will work mixed or stacked with, as a third kind of dirt flavor, might not turn out working at all for this, but I'll make a serious attempt to get it worked in at least, before eventual deciding if I am going to keep it as part of my setup for this project. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Baloney Balderdash

[dannybuoy]

I look forward to sounds clips, I'm a big Om fan!

Sounds like you've got your core sound dialed in by stacking some fairly cheap pedals! You'll probably like the Darkglass Alpha Omega if you get the chance to check that out.

[thodrik]

5 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

To start with the music you posted, I wasn't aware of the existence of this band, but I actually quite like the music, though the vocals kind of ruin it for me, but that is just me, I am pretty picky about music.

Also pretty far from the kind of music I have in mind for my project, though it won't exactly be traditional stoner rock either, but in a way more minimal and far less chord based way, and perhaps more experimental way too.

Although it's not going to sound like OM at all either, it will be considerably closer to that kind of thing, than the example you posted.

Here's one of my favorite tracks by them, though this is not from their early days where the instrumentation was really almost exclusively consisting of just bass, drums and vocals, since a lot more has been added into their sound, as in this one:

 

Also while a simple loud ultra distorted setup no doubt would generally likely work great for bass driven stoner rock type music, it wouldn't really work either for what I have in mind.

While my high gain distortion will definitely be one of my more used effects it won't exactly be a predominant effect that will be on by by far most of the time.

And as for how it sounds I kind of found what worked for me, with my setup and the type of music I had in mind creating, by a lot of trial and error and not least using my ears, there wasn't really much acoustic theory involved in my experiments, so theory is really not something I am concerned about, I set it up this particular way because it is what sounds good and works for/to me, so kind of don't care about people telling me reasons why it works poorly in theory when my ears tells me a completely different story, after all it's music I am working with, not theoretical science. 

As for your suggestion of using an octaver, I did indeed originally, and when I wrote the OP run my bass signal through an always on octave effect, giving an effect somewhat similar to that of an 8 string octave bass, with pairs of bass and octave strings, but recently discovered that unless I wanted to go down the road of running the octave up signal in completely separate chain and use separate effects for that, which would evolve into more of a step dance of turning pedals on and off, I actually got better results just keeping to my plain bass tone, of course then combined with the other effects I use for it.

Even though this will mainly just be my bass, played clean, overdriven, distorted and through various mod effects and delay at times, drums/percussion and vocals, with some extra more sparingly added instrumentation and ambient effect, exclusively having a more flavor oriented function, the octave up just kind of sounded messy and not just right when run through effects, even if I actually managed to get a pretty clean, extremely low latency, fairly natural sounding octave up tone, without any glitches or digital artifacts, using the Toneprint editor EQ options of my Sub'N'Up Mini, and to be honest I discovered I kind of even liked my clean bass tone more without the added octave as well. 

Also I did in fact start out using a 5 string Mikro bass for this project, also with the lowest note being a F#1, as on my 4 string, but with an added upper D3, but as I found I rarely really utilized the extra upper register in my compositions anyway, and kind of liked playing my 4 string better, as well as I actually also really liked the very idea of it just being a regular 4 string bass, even if tuned 2 half steps above regular 4 string, E standard, tuning, that keeping things fairly minimal aspect again coming in play, I settled for just using my beloved 4 string Mikro.

I do in fact have a pretty clear idea of where this is going, even if I am still just working on the bass parts for the songs so far, but I guess they are going to play the lead tole anyway too.

Something about a fairly minimal sound, with few things going on at the same time, a lot of space, but quite melodic and with the actual sound/tone of what is going on playing a big part, hence why I also use quite a fairly wide array of effects for my bass, and I guess the progressive aspect mainly comes in with the fact that my riffs just often happens to turn out to be in odd time signatures and that it often seems to want to shift over the course of a song.  

I guess kind of think very early Pink Floyd but with the musical aesthetics of the band Low, then put that into a more stoner and metal type of music context with some progressive attributes, and with the instrumentation I have in mind utilizing, if that makes sense.

I did end up making some changes to my overdrive and distortion setup too though, as a natural part of things that kind of worked for the fake 8 string "octave" bass tone not working quite as well for just a regular bass tone, but it's really fairly minimal EQ adjustments mostly, as well as I ended up running my Rat clone in Turbo mode, instead of Vintage mode, and turned up the gain of the California Sound overdrive it goes into a bit, but I am fairly confident that I pretty much got my rig in it's final form now,  likely only with maybe fairly minor changes happening at some future point when I get closer to start the actual recordings.

One thing I will try to add though is a Behringer SF300 Super Fuzz (generally praised, but super cheap, Boss FZ-2/Univox Super Fuzz, octave fuzz, clone) that I should get in the mail tomorrow, and that I am going to experiment with how will sound on it's own mixed with clean and eventually which of my other dirt pedals it will work mixed or stacked with, as a third kind of dirt flavor, might not turn out working at all for this, but I'll make a serious attempt to get it worked in at least, before eventual deciding if I am going to keep it as part of my setup for this project. 

Well, best of luck. I don’t mind OM but prefer Sleep and lots of other post rock type stuff. 

The example I posted wasn’t meant to be an indication of the style of music I thought you were going to play, more just an example of bass used as a lead instrument with loads of gain. Of course there are lots of other examples of this. It sounds like you have a clear idea of what you want to do though so best of luck in getting the project underway.

[Baloney Balderdash]

2 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

I look forward to sounds clips, I'm a big Om fan!

Sounds like you've got your core sound dialed in by stacking some fairly cheap pedals! You'll probably like the Darkglass Alpha Omega if you get the chance to check that out.

I kind of doubt that.

Doesn't sound very Rat like to me.

Also not too fond of cheeky patronizing comments, lots of truly great music was made on crappy cheap equipment, though cheap doesn't necessarily mean it will also sound crappy. 

Or that crappy sounding gear can't sound good put in the right context for that matter.

At least not if you know how to use it properly and actually use your ears.

Not apologizing for being poor here, just raising my voice against rich people who somehow thinks it makes them better persons.

As for OM I can only agree, but as I said this is not going to sound like OM at all, just more in that direction than the other example of bass driven stoner rock posted.

As I tried to describe it:

I guess kind of think very early Pink Floyd but with the musical aesthetics of the band Low, then put that into a more stoner and metal type of music context with some progressive attributes, and with the instrumentation I have in mind utilizing, if that makes sense.

Just to use known examples to hint in the direction I am going.

Calling it stoner rock might even be somewhat misleading, but put together with the other musical categories I listed (progressive psychedelic stoner rock) I think it is still more describing for what I am trying to create than if I had just made up my entire own word for it, which no one then would have any chance of getting an idea of what would imply. 

I guess being original doesn't necessarily mean you will get popular.

I'd rather stay original though, thank you.

That's not to say that you are not allowed to like the snips of bass lines for the songs of my project where I utilize high gain distortion that I will post at some point though, as promised.  

In fact I kind of hope you will prove my assumptions wrong, based on what that comment of yours seemed to insinuate to me, the world already got way too many jerks as it is.  

Edited July 21, 2020 by Baloney Balderdash

[Baloney Balderdash]

2 hours ago, thodrik said:

Well, best of luck. I don’t mind OM but prefer Sleep and lots of other post rock type stuff. 

The example I posted wasn’t meant to be an indication of the style of music I thought you were going to play, more just an example of bass used as a lead instrument with loads of gain. Of course there are lots of other examples of this. It sounds like you have a clear idea of what you want to do though so best of luck in getting the project underway.

Doesn't seem to be able to find a way to include a quote in an edit of a post, so sorry for the double post.

I didn't really take it as you guessing where I was going with my project, just you listing/suggesting examples of similar approaches,  which is perfectly fine, always happy to be introduced to new music I wasn't aware of the existence of, even if it happens to not be love at first listen.

I was just trying to explain which direction I was thinking of going with my project, which seemed to pretty much be perfectly in line with you listing/suggesting examples to me. 

Especially since you seemed to slightly mistake the topic of this thread for also being the main topic of the project I put it in a context with. 

Calling my project stoner rock might even be somewhat misleading, but put together with the other musical categories I listed (progressive psychedelic stoner rock) I think it is still more describing for what I am trying to create than if I had just made up my entire own word for it, which no one then would have any chance of getting an idea of what would imply. 

I appreciate your input and thanks for the music.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Baloney Balderdash

[adamg67]

Did I wander into TB by mistake?

[thodrik]

10 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

 

Especially since you seemed to slightly mistake the topic of this thread for also being the main topic of the project I mentioned utilizing it in. 

 

I appreciate your post however there was no mistake on my part. In the first sentence of your original post you stated that you wanted to discuss approaches to achieving the 'ultimate high gain bass distortion setup' and invited forum members asked us to 'share your general thoughts about this topic'. I did that.

 My original post discussed what I would do if I wanted to achieve 'the ultimate high gain bass distortion'. I also posted an example of a band where high gain bass distortion is used which I think fits in with your invitation to 'share your general thoughts about this topic'. 

It makes no difference to me whether you personally like the style of music or vocals of a band I shared just as an example of high gain bass distortion (it doesn't even bother me if you don't like the bass tone). It  doesn't bother me that my own approach to achieving the 'ultimate high gain distortion setup' would not suit the particular needs or style of your own specific project. In the context of a discussion on the 'ultimate high gain bass distortion',  I am really not concerned as to whether you are actually predominantly using high gain bass distortion in your own specific project or exactly what stylistic direction the project is going to take. It is all just part of the wider discussion which on Basschat tends to be fairly free-flowing.