Vintage Fender Prices

[Geek99]

1 hour ago, gjones said:

I never knew there could be such a thing, as a bass guitar worth £22,000 . Did they make a mistake and think it was a guitar?

Reminds me of that funny story, about the groupie who accidentally slept with the bass player because she thought he was a guitarist 😊

So she was wrong twice, wow ...

[Dad3353]

9 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

The Dutch tulip bubble lasted about four years, didn't it?

Yeah, folks grew out of 'em. 

[Monkey Steve]

54 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

The Dutch tulip bubble lasted about four years, didn't it?

Before they split up due to musical differences...

(actually it was closer to four months, and the truth isn’t much like the myth - people didn’t kill themselves because of lost fortunes, and very few people were affected...but the myth is more fun, as always)

[Huge Hands]

I note the drum market doesn't appear to follow guitars, I assume because they usually get a lot more abuse.

I have a 1965-ish Premier jazz kit slowly rotting away in my loft but every time I've looked into selling it, I always get offered a fair amount for the snare, but the same amount for the whole kit as they usually just want the snare.

I've had a few offers over the years which either suggest there is just no real market for them, or they are trying to low ball me and take advantage of my lack of knowledge.

P.S.  I'm not looking to sell ATM and not trying to circumvent the forum rules on selling, I just thought it was relevant to the conversation.

[wateroftyne]

4 minutes ago, Huge Hands said:

I note the drum market doesn't appear to follow guitars, I assume because they usually get a lot more abuse.

I have a 1965-ish Premier jazz kit slowly rotting away in my loft but every time I've looked into selling it, I always get offered a fair amount for the snare, but the same amount for the whole kit as they usually just want the snare.

I've had a few offers over the years which either suggest there is just no real market for them, or they are trying to low ball me and take advantage of my lack of knowledge.

P.S.  I'm not looking to sell ATM and not trying to circumvent the forum rules on selling, I just thought it was relevant to the conversation.

Gretsch is a different story, I think..?

[Huge Hands]

1 minute ago, wateroftyne said:

Gretsch is a different story, I think..?

Maybe.  I was a drummer in my teens before turning to bass and never had the money to buy shiny new stuff, so don't know much about the drum market.  I gigged that kit on and off for 10 years before I even realised it was that old, so probably didn't treat it as carefully as I should have.  I think it is also due to the sound - I was gigging it a lot around the 90s hip hop and Portishead sampling type music, so should have been in demand.  I remember a university project I did at the time (I did a recording degree) where the lecturer turned his nose up and went "but that drum sound is really old".  I replied "no s**t, that's why I drove a 5hr round trip home to get my vintage kit instead of just using the one in the studio...."

Unfortunately ill health means I don't get to play it any more but used to love the dull toms with internal dampers and the bass drum sound.  Not one for the rockers methinks!

[drTStingray]

21 hours ago, Thunderbird said:

I would like to say that in no way shape or form am I questioning any prices or anything like that and if I should not post this could a mod delete it please but I have a genuine question looking in the for sale section here there is a 1960 jazz and a 1966 precision but the prices are really different and I'm genuinely interested in why is one rarer or more desirable or of a better vintage? I'm in no way a Fender expert and I'm honestly curious if you Fender experts can explain

Thanks in advance 👍

You've probably picked one polar opposite here - early stack knob Fender Jazzes have some of the highest values of all vintage basses (but apparently quite reasonable compared to some vintage guitars)!! 

Vintage Fender Precisions are usually less valuable than a Fender Jazz from the same era (the stack knob Jazzes are really outliers in terms of value). 

I agree that perusing vintage instruments can really be quite a dangerous pastime for your finances, Ive been tempted more than once!! I've not succumbed so far, only having relatively new basses. 

[Thunderbird]

13 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

You've probably picked one polar opposite here - early stack knob Fender Jazzes have some of the highest values of all vintage basses (but apparently quite reasonable compared to some vintage guitars)!! 

Vintage Fender Precisions are usually less valuable than a Fender Jazz from the same era (the stack knob Jazzes are really outliers in terms of value). 

I agree that perusing vintage instruments can really be quite a dangerous pastime for your finances, Ive been tempted more than once!! I've not succumbed so far, only having relatively new basses. 

I really have no idea what's what with vintage instruments but I understand why people coveted certain ones so much and why things that look like they are so much different in price but know I have a lot better idea thanks to all the posts here 👌

[meterman]

57 minutes ago, Huge Hands said:

I note the drum market doesn't appear to follow guitars, I assume because they usually get a lot more abuse.

I think you'd be surprised. Some vintage drum gear, whether it be kits, snares, cymbals or percussion, can be worth a small fortune.

Full disclosure: percussion and drums is my main instrument, and I've had stints of trading in vintage drums to pay my mortgage in the past. Certain vintage cymbals can fetch £2,500 each if and when they come up for sale. Some snares on their own can hit upwards of £5,000. Near mint examples of classic 1940s / 50s / 60s kits can vary wildly. I've sold vintage USA Gretsch and Camco kits for over £3,000 and Ludwigs in a desired finish for not far off that.

Even beat-up vintage kits can still command decent coin, and certain Premiers can be really sought after depending on what sizes they are, what finish, what woods were used, etc, and there's no shortage of vintage Premier collectors around either!

[Happy Jack]

So, this £22,000 bass? WTF?

[Piers_Williamson]

https://www.andybaxterbass.com/collections/fender-jazz-bass/products/1960-fender-jazz-bass-sunburst

A good comparison from Andy Baxter's site.  Meanwhile the item in question appears to be about to be sold!

[ead]

18 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

while I broadly agree with the supply and demand aspect of this, there does seem to be something of a Dutch Tulip bubble about some of the prices (and not just for Fender, for vintage instruments in general) that they reflect the age of the instrument rather than the inherent quality.

I agree, age is not necessariy proportional to quality and with Leo's automotive background I imagine that he was designing for manufacture as much as anything.

When I bought mine I went looking for a bass that had been played (a lot in the case of the bass I acquired) hoping that would be a good indication that it was at least worth playing.  Turns out it is and gets gigged regularly and the Sausage & Swordfish.

Edited July 17, 2020 by ead

[Chiliwailer]

Gentleman, this 1960 Jazz Bass chat is just small talk  

Gibson Les Paul - 1959 - £250,000 😳

https://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-les-paul-standard-1959-sunburst-2

A LP with humbuckers was made from 1957-1960, then the LP was discontinued until about 1969 I think so less now vintage LP’s were made. 
People love the 59 neck, and ones with a good flame are very desirable. 

Rare in a true sense, but totally bonkers.

 

[OliverBlackman]

Top 1% earners have 44% of the worlds wealth. £22k is probably a days work for some. In return they get a (likely) fantastic instrument that could be a great investment, but also an interesting point of topic. “This bass only has two knobs!” 

[Dad3353]

31 minutes ago, OliverBlackman said:

...“This bass only has two knobs!” 

Three, if you count the acquirer.

...

[GuyR]

15 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Three, if you count the acquirer.

...

He's doing better than me, and the vast majority of people denigrating his choice, if he has £22k to spare for a bass. Good luck to him/her.

 

[Dad3353]

11 minutes ago, GuyR said:

He's doing better than me, and the vast majority of people denigrating his choice, if he has £22k to spare for a bass. Good luck to him/her.

S'not denigration, t'is just a 'cheap shot' joke. There's lots of stuff I've bought over all these decades just as easy to laugh at. Chill..? 

[GuyR]

1 minute ago, Dad3353 said:

S'not denigration, t'is just a 'cheap shot' joke. There's lots of stuff I've bought over all these decades just as easy to laugh at. Chill..? 

Fair point. None taken...😀

[drTStingray]

4 hours ago, Chiliwailer said:

Gentleman, this 1960 Jazz Bass chat is just small talk  

Gibson Les Paul - 1959 - £250,000 😳

https://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-les-paul-standard-1959-sunburst-2

A LP with humbuckers was made from 1957-1960, then the LP was discontinued until about 1969 I think so less now vintage LP’s were made. 
People love the 59 neck, and ones with a good flame are very desirable. 

Rare in a true sense, but totally bonkers.

 

Absolutely - vintage guitar prices are stratospheric compared with basses - 50s Strats are also silly money. 

Just shows that groupie was right - on this basis the guitarist (or at least their vintage guitar) is worth more than 10 times the value of the most expensive bass!! 

[merello]

Haven’t read whole thread but Gibson are offering a £59k reward for their order book around The 59 mark. 

[Chiliwailer]

4 hours ago, merello said:

Haven’t read whole thread but Gibson are offering a £59k reward for their order book around The 59 mark. 

Interesting that, wonder if it’s because of the (obviously expected) issue with fakes? 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Chiliwailer

[Aidan63]

So what's the betting we see a '60 stackpot Jazz soon in a certain Shed near Leeds 😃

[Bill Wy,Aye,Man]

On 16/07/2020 at 06:44, bassaussie said:

Someone mentioned above that 1960 was the first year of the Jazz, which is correct, so that definitely puts a premium on the instrument.

But there's a special point about 1960-61 Jazz Basses that makes them very desirable for collectors. In those first years, the Jazz was produced with 2 sets of stack knobs - ie. a volume and tone stacked into a single unit. If you look at the bass mentioned in the OP, you can see that it looks like there's only 2 knobs on the control plate, but on closer inspection, it's actually four controls - one stack (V/T) for each pickup. Starting 1962, the Jazz then changes to the 3 control setup that has been standard until today (ie. V/V/T). I can't remember the specific reason for the change, but vaguely, it was something to do with some sort of "bleeding" effect when you used each tone, so that it had an impact on the other pickup - maybe someone else can clarify that.

So .... when you see these basses advertised, they'll often make a specific point of mentioning that it's a "Stack knob" Jazz. Year wise, they started in 1960, and ended late 1961. The thing with Fender that you have to remember, though, is that they always used every part that had been made, so you can often get a crossover of features that are associated with one year, but appear on a later year. For example - you might have a bass that has a neck stamped for 1965, and set of pickups for 1966, pots with 1965 stamps, and a serial number from 1966. If that was what was in front of the guy putting it together on that day, then that was what was used. From a collectable point of view, you then have the question - what year is that bass? The way it was explained to me, by a well-known vintage bass dealer that most people on here would know of, is that the part with the latest date on it designates the year. When you think about it, it makes sense - if a bass (or guitar) has a part on it that says 1966, then clearly the instrument wasn't completed before that date. But I'm sure that's a subject that would probably get debated extensively.

There are other desirable features associated with those early Jazz basses, though. The serial number would be a "pre-L" - so preceding the L-Series. L-Series Fenders are very desirable because they preceded the CBS takeover, so "pre-L" numbers get people even more excited. I think L-Series starts around 1962, something like that. Also, the rosewood on the neck is a slab board. In 1962, Fender decides to start making a curved rosewood board, as opposed to a piece that was a flat bottom and a curved face. I've heard various reasons for this - one is that it was a cost-cutting method, another is that the slab board didn't stick to the maple neck very well. For whatever reason, this happened, and again, it's a desirable point for collectors. Rosewood boards on any Fenders only appeared around 1959 (I'm pretty sure that applies to guitars as well, but please correct me if I'm wrong), so these slab boards have a fairly short window of about 4 years, from 1959-1962.

Most of this information is available on the internet, if you know where to look. However, there's a brilliant book by Black and Molinaro called "The Fender Bass - An Illustrated History" that I'd recommend reading.

As for what I've written, this is all off the top of my head, so if there's any mistakes, please correct me.

Jazzmaster, 1958, slab rosewood board

[bassaussie]

42 minutes ago, Bill Wy,Aye,Man said:

Jazzmaster, 1958, slab rosewood board

Thanks Bill!

[Reggaebass]

There’s a Jazzmaster prototype on vintage and rare that’s been for sale for a long time at just over 26.000€