2x12 Bass Cabs yes or no?

[BigRedX]

41 minutes ago, JapanAxe said:

This would make an interesting blind test at a bass bash - same bass and head through a variety of speaker configurations, preferably using the same driver 'family'.

That would be interesting.

My experience with bass rigs, is that there is as little similarity in sound between cabs with the same speaker configuration as there is those with different configurations.

[Chienmortbb]

42 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Can anyone else hear Alex's teeth itching?

 

I hear something from Sussex. On a more serious note though Phil is right. Cone diameter is just one of many things that contribute to a driver's performance, albeit an important one. Remember no one, whether in Brighton, California, deepest Essex, London, Germany or the Netgherlands can alter the laws of physics. Alex himslf makes use of them in the intricate design of his cabs.

[MacDaddy]

2 x 12 user here, but my speakers are wrapped, so the cab has a lower footprint.

Edited July 21, 2020 by MacDaddy

[fretmeister]

24 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

I hear something from Sussex. On a more serious note though Phil is right. Cone diameter is just one of many things that contribute to a driver's performance, albeit an important one. Remember no one, whether in Brighton, California, deepest Essex, London, Germany or the Netgherlands can alter the laws of physics. Alex himslf makes use of them in the intricate design of his cabs.

I am aware. But the post didn't even mention cone excursion. Cone size alone really does mean nothing without considering excursion as well.

Using 1 manufacturers figures alone mean nothing too. If all of eminence's cones have the same excursion and the only thing that changes is diameter then of course more air will be moved with a larger cone.

But if a 10 has lots more excursion than the 15, then the 10 can move more.

[chris_b]

I believe that Alex would be saying exactly the same as  Phil. The science remains the same, it's the application that changes.

[fretmeister]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

I believe that Alex would be saying exactly the same as  Phil. The science remains the same, it's the application that changes.

No argument with that.

There are practical issues not considered as well. With only the diameter changing and nothing else a 15 will move more than a 10. But how often is a single 10 used? A pair of 10s have far greater surface area than a single 15.

 

(EDIT -  did my maths wrong. It's not)

 

I've had HD112 and CN112 (bergs) next to each other. Both 12 inch cones and massively different sound. The cone size was irrelevant.

Edited July 21, 2020 by fretmeister

[chris_b]

5 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

There are practical issues not considered as well. With only the diameter changing and nothing else a 15 will move more than a 10. But how often is a single 10 used? A pair of 10s have far greater surface area than a single 15.

 

I've had HD112 and CN112 (bergs) next to each other. Both 12 inch cones and massively different sound. The cone size was irrelevant.

I always though the cone excursion (xmax) was responsible for most of the air movement from a speaker.

One of those Berg cabs is ceramic and one is Neo. The speakers will be designed differently so they will sound different.

[BigRedX]

9 minutes ago, chris_b said:

I always though the cone excursion (xmax) was responsible for most of the air movement from a speaker.

One of those Berg cabs is ceramic and one is Neo. The speakers will be designed differently so they will sound different.

Exactly! Which is why IMO the size and number of the drivers on their own is fairly meaningless.

[fretmeister]

46 minutes ago, chris_b said:

I always though the cone excursion (xmax) was responsible for most of the air movement from a speaker.

One of those Berg cabs is ceramic and one is Neo. The speakers will be designed differently so they will sound different.

That was exactly my point.

[barkin]

1 hour ago, fretmeister said:

A pair of 10s have far greater surface area than a single 15.

Are we sure about that ?

[fretmeister]

3 minutes ago, barkin said:

Are we sure about that ?

I just checked - you are quite right. It's not.

I have that wrong.

[jazzyvee]

Yes for the Barefaced Big twin II. Superb sounding cab

[dave_bass5]

On 16/07/2020 at 22:34, JottoSW1 said:

Yes. Epifani UL212 bought secondhand. Am in love with it.

Hated mine, worst higher end cab ive ever had. Fell apart very quickly, very poorly made, and very quiet sounding. Tone was good though. 

These days I can’t imagine anything better than my Berg CN212. I find 2x12 are my thing, and ive not had anything as satisfying since a Schroeder 1212L. Totally different sounding cabs but both 2x12’s

Edited July 28, 2020 by dave_bass5

[Lozz196]

At the SE Bass Bash a few years back we did a cab shootout and the Berg CN212 was the easy winner.

[gazhowe]

My first foray into 12’s is the Bergantino NXT212. Really impressed with it so far but unfortunately I’ve not even been able to do a full band rehearsal with it yet.  Hopefully that will happen sooner rather than later. 

[TRBboy]

Having used one for years, I don't think a 2x12 gives me quite what I want. They're loud and sound great, but it never had quite enough low end authority.

I'm back with a 2x10 +1x15 setup now (like I did before the 2x12,albeit a different brand), and it's giving me much more of what I want, certainly more ballsy in the lower frequencies, but still plenty clear and punchy. 

As with everything though, it's all entirely personal, subjective, and dependant on the application. There's no right or wrong, you've just gotta find what works for you. 

[itu]

My 2 x 12" can handle 1.3 kW, so no need for an extra cab. My amp has enough power to make me deaf.

Week and a half to the next gig! 7 booked already for August and September!

[TRBboy]

5 minutes ago, itu said:

My 2 x 12" can handle 1.3 kW, so no need for an extra cab. My amp has enough power to make me deaf.

Week and a half to the next gig! 7 booked already for August and September!

Are you in the UK? Are we allowed to get back to it?! 😮🤞🤞

[itu]

No, I am not. There are some limitations and arrangements within these gigs. But getting back to the stage!

(Just came from the rehearsals, there is clearly a place for some homework...)

[stevie]

22 hours ago, itu said:

My 2 x 12" can handle 1.3 kW, so no need for an extra cab. My amp has enough power to make me deaf.

Week and a half to the next gig! 7 booked already for August and September!

And the 650W drivers are?

[dave_bass5]

6 minutes ago, stevie said:

And the 650W drivers are?

...bloody good 😂

[BassmanPaul]

The last time I used a 2x12 it was in late 1968. A brand new blackface/Blonde Fender Bassman. It look beautiful sitting there on stage. It was a torture I've been unable to forget. it was a weekend that seemed to last months! I took it back to the store and, as they had sold my trade in, I just left the damn thing there anyway!

 That said, in todays world with modern drivers and cabinet design, I'd have no worries gigging a 2x12. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by BassmanPaul

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Lumping all 212s, or for that matter all of any speaker configuration, into the same performance category is as valid as saying all vehicles with 380HP engines perform the same. There's a big difference between a 380HP BMW Z4 and a 380HP 2.5 ton pickup truck.

[Chienmortbb]

On 31/07/2020 at 20:50, stevie said:

And the 650W drivers are???

Specified by the marketing department?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The thermal power rating is meaningless in and of itself, just as the driver diameter is meaningless in and of itself.