Recording bass

[thedontcarebear]

Bonjourno!  Many years ago, I used to spend lots of time in recording studios - I'd often use a Sansamp bass drive, or mic up my amp (whatever it was at the time etc).

Recently I've started playing a bit again at home, and I'm doing some remote funky stuff with my old band mates down south - I've got a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 that I dug out and I am using Cakewalk, which I am impressed with as it didn't cost me a fortune as Logic did when I had a mac.

Anyway, my basses direct, with some compression added via TH3 sounds okay at the moment - but what do other home recorders use to get their bass down?

I thought maybe a Microbass 2, or just another Sansamp bass driver again?  Anyone tried one of those Sonicakes, I've read good things, but they seem too good to be true for 50 quid?!

[BigRedX]

Unless I am also doing the production and the mixing, or the song required a specific effect on the bass, I would record without any effects, compression or EQ direct into the interface using an instrument input if it has one or via a no-frills DI box. If you want to give the producer/mix engineer an idea of the sort of bass sound you are after then record with the relevant EQ and effects on a parallel track and note down which effects have been used.

EQ, compression and effects can always be added at the mixing stage. Trying to compensate for the wrong EQ and compression is not so easy, and the wrong effect will almost certainly have you re-recording the track dry.

Edited July 23, 2020 by BigRedX

[Nicko]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

Unless I am also doing the production and the mixing, or the song required a specific effect on the bass, I would record without any effects, compression or EQ direct into the interface using an instrument input if it has one or via a no-frills DI box. If you want to give the producer/mix engineer an idea of the sort of bass sound you are after then record with the relevant EQ and effects on a parallel track and note down which effects have been used.

EQ, compression and effects can always be added at the mixing stage. Trying to compensate for the wrong EQ and compression is not so easy, and the wrong effect will almost certainly have you re-recording the track dry.

^ generally this, although I'm planning on an experiment using my Markbass line out connection to see whether this adds anything I cant get from the plugin effects (I'm a cheapskate and at the moment I only have the plugins that came with the 2i2 and Cubase LE.

The reason I might try is that I get better sounds on my guitar by recording through the amp as the plugins can't generate the distortions that I can get from the amp.

[PatrickJ]

Hi Guys, 

I'm very interested in this thread.

I've decided to try and learn Pro Tools.  After installing the free "First" version yesterday I have spent the past two evenings working with a little 1 minute demo recorded by an guitarist I known on his iPhone and turning it into a full mix.

Yesterday I was working with my Sandberg P but I could not get a recorded tone I liked.  The free edition of Pro Tools doesn't let you use 3rd party VSTs so no Amp / Cab aims so my bass track is direct in via the audio interface.

Any tips on getting a great bass sound from a dry DI in without the use of VSTs?  Or should I use some sort of pre-amp for some tone shaping before the AI?

Other option maybe to mic up the amp.

Edited July 28, 2020 by PatrickJ

[Dad3353]

For the price of two month's subscription, you could get a full license for Reaper, and get full access to all its very extensive features, including usage of Vst's, from the go-get, as the free-to-use 'trial' pre-purchase version is not restricted in any way. Downloadable for PC or Mac (there's a Linux version, too, being beta'd...). I can't see what Pro Tools has that Reaper hasn't for home use, or even semi-pro studio (apart its cost, of course...).
Just sayin. 

As for the bass sound: I can't really help, as I usually prefer to use the 'dry' direct sound of my basses in any case. Sorry. 

[thedontcarebear]

4 hours ago, PatrickJ said:

Hi Guys, 

I'm very interested in this thread.

I've decided to try and learn Pro Tools.  After installing the free "First" version yesterday I have spent the past two evenings working with a little 1 minute demo recorded by an guitarist I known on his iPhone and turning it into a full mix.

Yesterday I was working with my Sandberg P but I could not get a recorded tone I liked.  The free edition of Pro Tools doesn't let you use 3rd party VSTs so no Amp / Cab aims so my bass track is direct in via the audio interface.

Any tips on getting a great bass sound from a dry DI in without the use of VSTs?  Or should I use some sort of pre-amp for some tone shaping before the AI?

Other option maybe to mic up the amp.

You should try using Cakewalk by the way instead of protools, it's completely free with no limitations.

[chris_b]

On the last recording I did I used my Lull PJ5+foam into an Aguilar TH500 into Logic Pro. The project didn't get past the basic tracks but the bass sounded very good.

[thedontcarebear]

2 hours ago, chris_b said:

On the last recording I did I used my Lull PJ5+foam into an Aguilar TH500 into Logic Pro. The project didn't get past the basic tracks but the bass sounded very good.

Did you DI the head?

[chris_b]

14 minutes ago, thedontcarebear said:

Did you DI the head?

Yes. I don't know how we plugged into the Mac but we used DI.

[bassist_lewis]

I've been getting into my home recording set up over lockdown so I will be watching this thread eagerly!

I always record two tracks: one is always my Rupert Neve DI because its much quieter than the DIs on my amps and gives a clean and clear recording without being as dead as plugging directly into the interface. The second track is where I get to sculpt the sound a bit more. I got a Shure SM57 for my birthday in May and borrowed a couple of other mics from friends, including a Rode M3 and an AKG P2. I mix and match these with my two amps (Mesa D800 and Ampeg PF-50T) and my basses (Callowhill MPB 5 and Fender Mustang JMJ) to get the sound for the track.

I haven't done the mixing on the projects I've been working on but the guy has said my bass sound great and is easy to work with so I must be doing something right!

[ahpook]

I also record two tracks - I always do a clean DI and also an 'effected' track.

The clean DI comes from a Schalltechnik_04 VONG-Filterung, which sits at the front of my pedalboard. This gives me options later on in case the effected sound doesn't quite work and quite a few people I record with ask for the clean DI as they'd rather use amp sims or somesuch at their end.

The effected signal goes out of the VONG through whatever effects I fancy for the song and then into an EBS MIcrobass II with some EQ and the cab sim on. I've been using the EBS for I-don't-care-to-remember many years, for recording and live, and it's just brilliant. At the moment I just use that into a power amp and speakers for my amp at home.

When it's recorded I don't use any amp sims unless something's gone wrong and I have to use the clean DI. I'll use EQ (most likely a HPF) and some compression on the effected recording.

I'd much get a good sound going into the box than use sims. I do the same with guitars most of the time. Effects and then a little Palmer DI/Speaker Sim box.

 

[Dad3353]

45 minutes ago, bassist_lewis said:

...the guy has said my bass sound great and is easy to work with so I must be doing something right!

He may have been keeping just the DI track..! 

...

[BigRedX]

TBH unless you are doing the engineering and mixing, you have no idea which source has been used for the bass guitar. 

Every time in past 20 years that I've been in the studio to play bass there has always been a mic on one of the speakers in my rig, but there has also been a DI from the head and a direct DI from the bass, so any of those sound sources could have been used on the final mix. And TBH so long as the bass sounds how I imagined it should do in the final mix I'm really not bothered.

 

[fretmeister]

I always record direct too. Then muck about with plugins however I feel like. Currently I'm really liking Helix Native and the NeuralDSP Parallax ones.

I often blend a couple of sounds together to get what I want.

[skidder652003]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

TBH unless you are doing the engineering and mixing, you have no idea which source has been used for the bass guitar. 

Every time in past 20 years that I've been in the studio to play bass there has always been a mic on one of the speakers in my rig, but there has also been a DI from the head and a direct DI from the bass, so any of those sound sources could have been used on the final mix. And TBH so long as the bass sounds how I imagined it should do in the final mix I'm really not bothered.

 

same here, I came all tooled up for our recording session in February, Ampeg SVT head, Dave Hall Preamp, there were trace elliots and mesa in the studio. I was well excited. Turns out the engineer just DI'd from my bass via a standard Di box straight to the audio interface and then Logic, that was it. Sounded great to be fair so God knows what voodoo he used in Logic.

[bassist_lewis]

3 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

He may have been keeping just the DI track..! 

...

I'll take that!

[PatrickJ]

22 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

For the price of two month's subscription, you could get a full license for Reaper, and get full access to all its very extensive features, including usage of Vst's, from the go-get, as the free-to-use 'trial' pre-purchase version is not restricted in any way.  I can't see what Pro Tools has that Reaper hasn't for home use, or even semi-pro studio (apart its cost, of course...).
Just sayin. 

 

17 hours ago, thedontcarebear said:

You should try using Cakewalk by the way instead of protools, it's completely free with no limitations.

Thanks for the recommendations on DAW's.    I fancied giving Pro Tools ago as, alongside Logic, it seems to be the industry standards.   I don't have a mac which ruled Logic out and since Pro Tools had a free version I thought I'd give it ago.   Not that I want to be a professional recording engineer it's just there's an awful lot of great resources out there on how to do things in Pro Tools which has been helping alot.   The VST and general plugin support is an issue though, it wouldn't be so bad if the Avid market place items were more affordable but 419£ for their VST amp pack is a little steep!   I do have a Focusrite Scarlet Solo on the way which includes the Creative Pack for Pro Tools, effectively a selection of plugins that will work the First version so hopefully there will be some useful additions in that, though I don't know if a bass amp will be included.

If all else fails I do have a fully licensed version of Cubase Elements which I can upgrade to the latest release for £10 however, I am finding Pro Tools much easier to use than Cubase.

10 hours ago, bassist_lewis said:

I always record two tracks: one is always my Rupert Neve DI because its much quieter than the DIs on my amps and gives a clean and clear recording without being as dead as plugging directly into the interface. The second track is where I get to sculpt the sound a bit more. I got a Shure SM57 for my birthday in May and borrowed a couple of other mics from friends, including a Rode M3 and an AKG P2. I mix and match these with my two amps (Mesa D800 and Ampeg PF-50T) and my basses (Callowhill MPB 5 and Fender Mustang JMJ) to get the sound for the track.

I'd love to do this.  I watched a number of videos on best ways to record bass and it would appear the favoured approach is to take both a DI and a Mic'd signal and blend them for the final mix.    I do have an AKG kick drum mic I could use but because I'm doing my recording in the evening I can't play through an amp at any volume so recording via mic is a bit of a no go.  It has to be either direct into the audio interace or through some sort of DI solution first.

9 hours ago, ahpook said:

I also record two tracks - I always do a clean DI and also an 'effected' track.

The clean DI comes from a Schalltechnik_04 VONG-Filterung, which sits at the front of my pedalboard. This gives me options later on in case the effected sound doesn't quite work and quite a few people I record with ask for the clean DI as they'd rather use amp sims or somesuch at their end.

The effected signal goes out of the VONG through whatever effects I fancy for the song and then into an EBS MIcrobass II with some EQ and the cab sim on. I've been using the EBS for I-don't-care-to-remember many years, for recording and live, and it's just brilliant. At the moment I just use that into a power amp and speakers for my amp at home.

When it's recorded I don't use any amp sims unless something's gone wrong and I have to use the clean DI. I'll use EQ (most likely a HPF) and some compression on the effected recording.

I'd much get a good sound going into the box than use sims. I do the same with guitars most of the time. Effects and then a little Palmer DI/Speaker Sim box.

 

I think I will take a similar approach, in fact my guitarist came round this evening (in an acceptably socially distanced manner)  and recorded the guitar tracks for 3 songs he has composed.   He played into his pedal board and Boss Katana amp with his usual settings and we recorded in PT via the Rec Out jack into my current audio interface.  I can now do some final tweaks to EQ and add some compression where I need too.

I was also thinking of picking up something like a EBS Microbass II or Tech21 Sansamp and using that in front of the audio interface for the bass parts.  Although last night I did get some alright sounding recordings direct in from the bass with my active Jazz bass.

[PatrickJ]

I happened to be in Brighton today and stopped into GAK. Came home with a SansAmp Bass Driver.

I've only had a chance to play with it for a few minutes but I'm very impressed with the first few recordings I did.  I like the parallel out feature which allows me to record both a Clean DI and effected signal within the DAW as though I was both mic'ing and amp cab and taking a di feed from it.

[PatrickJ]

I finished recording and mixing my first song this evening.   

The SansAmp Bass Driver was fantastic and just what I needed, though I did have to abandon Pro Tools and go back to Cubase.

I followed many of the tips found in this video, I even got hold of a free SansAmp PSA plug-in to add the additional OD.

Pro Tools is a lot better than Cubase - it's more intuitive to use and I was able to do a few more tricks with the Busses and Aux tracks than I've been able to replicate in Cubase but the limitations of first quickly become apparent when doing serious production work.

Edited August 2, 2020 by PatrickJ

[thedontcarebear]

I am going to give this a go sometime....

https://www.tseaudio.com/software/tseBOD

[PatrickJ]

4 hours ago, thedontcarebear said:

I am going to give this a go sometime....

https://www.tseaudio.com/software/tseBOD

Thanks for sharing, I also grabbed their Tube Screamer and RAT plugins too.

You might also be interested in this one

http://www.soft-amp.com/softamp-psa