Wal build times / build times in general

[40hz]

Morning all!

I'm currently toying with the idea of placing an order for a Wal Mk1 but note that the wait times and pricing have risen quite a bit in the past couple of years. They were under 5k with a year wait time 2-3 years ago. They now come in at £6050 with a three year wait.

Should I just place an order in the expectation that if I don't do it now both wait times and the cost will keep increasing? 

Apologies for seeming a bit dumb as I have no experience of high end bass luthiery. I know not all basses are made the same or created equal, but is this a 'normal' wait time? What do other builders/luthiers do when their wait times get excessive?

Any experiences or tips on how to stay sane during the build time very much appreciated! 😄

[AndyTravis]

I would hope if you agree a build at £6000 that’s the final price you pay - even if the basses creep up to £7500 by the time yours is delivered. Or have I missed the point?

[40hz]

51 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

I would hope if you agree a build at £6000 that’s the final price you pay - even if the basses creep up to £7500 by the time yours is delivered. Or have I missed the point?

Apologies if I didn't make sense, it's late in the day/morning!

I've essentially been holding off on the expectation that wait times might come down! But it seems to be going in the opposite direction! The longer I wait in placing the order, the more I'll have to pay and wait (seemingly). However I barely have the willpower or patience to wait 3 years as it is!

Edited July 26, 2020 by 40hz

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

The price and the wait time do seem a little excessive. Have you spoken with a Electric Wood to enquire why the wait time has gone up? The prices, well, they’re going to go up, but I would expect it to stay at the price point you ordered it at. I can’t see why that would be otherwise. I’m glad I bought mine when I did.

[AndyTravis]

37 minutes ago, 40hz said:

Apologies if I didn't make sense, it's late in the day/morning!

I've essentially been holding off on the expectation that wait times might come down! But it seems to be going in the opposite direction! The longer I wait the more I'll have to pay and wait (seemingly). However I barely have the willpower or patience to wait 3 years as it is!

I have ALWAYS wanted a Wal for my 40th (in 4 years).

Mrs Travis (who is fit and supportive) has said it absolutely can happen.

But I’ll most likely be buying used - otherwise the order will have to go in next year.

[40hz]

7 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

The price and the wait time do seem a little excessive. Have you spoken with a Electric Wood to enquire why the wait time has gone up? The prices, well, they’re going to go up, but I would expect it to stay at the price point you ordered it at. I can’t see why that would be otherwise. I’m glad I bought mine when I did.

Oh no, don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting the price to change from initial point of order to delivery, more that the asking price keeps going up, and if I keep on waiting, I'll likely end up having to endure an even worse wait time.

Edited July 26, 2020 by 40hz

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

2 minutes ago, 40hz said:

Oh no, don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting the price to change from initial point of order to delivery, more that the asking price keeps going up, and if I keep on waiting, I'll likely end up having to endure an even worse wait time.

Ah, apologies. Well, if you want one, I would order now. At least you have three years to save up for the final payment 👍

[AndyTravis]

£6000+ is a no go. Just checked in - she says £5000 is the limit.

And quite right too. I want one - but not £6000.

I’m not a bad player, but my sadowsky at £2500 is better than I deserve.

[40hz]

Just now, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Ah, apologies. Well, if you want one, I would order now. At least you have three years to save up for the final payment 👍

That is a good point

I'll fire off an email to them.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

Is there any particular reason you have chosen the Mk1? I’m assuming you’ve played a few to know the difference and that you know what the neck profiles can be like?

[40hz]

2 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

£6000+ is a no go. Just checked in - she says £5000 is the limit.

And quite right too. I want one - but not £6000.

I’m not a bad player, but my sadowsky at £2500 is better than I deserve.

It is a huge sum of money. Knowing our luck, we'll place an order and Wal will introduce an import line for half the price.

[AndyTravis]

I’d order a mk1, love the shape. Played a mk2 and a mk3, but a Wal to me - is a mk1

[40hz]

Just now, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Is there any particular reason you have chosen the Mk1? I’m assuming you’ve played a few to know the difference and that you know what the neck profiles can be like?

I played one a couple of years back (late 80s model iirc) and loved it. The tone was to die for.

Has to be a Mk1, I'm not a fan of the MK2 or MK3 shapes.

[AndyTravis]

1 minute ago, 40hz said:

It is a huge sum of money. Knowing our luck, we'll place an order and Wal will introduce an import line for half the price.

Well (Wal). Before Mr Herman took the ropes, there was a mention of the UK PRS distributor Headline taking over the brand.

Within the discussion was an “SE” type line. And I think that’s where the talks fell apart.

 

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

I really didn’t like any of the neck profiles on the Mk1’s I played before I bought my Mk3. They were all very V shaped. I guess if you’re ordering a new one you can spec the neck to your preference. 

[spectoremg]

Hmmm, massively overrated and massively overpriced. 

#eliteistcodswallop 

[OliverBlackman]

Waiting time depends on demand - They are very highly regarded but if they keep putting the price up demand may fall.

Price - cost of parts, rent, salary’s are likely to all increase year on year. More so right now if they’re importing any parts from Europe. 
 

I think the wait time on my Overwater was 9-12 months. I think it took them around a month from picking the woods to delivery. It gave me time to change certain details though.

[Graham]

Lead times are a function of material availability, production capacity and order book size.

Assuming Paul's capacity stays the same - it's him and one other guy I think? Then if lead times are extending I'd guess Wal's suppliers are extending their lead times, probably due to COVID: delays in production due to people being off, or working from home and delays in shipping - everything is taking longer and costing more to ship around the world at the moment.

It's also quite possible that to in order minimise price increases, Wal are holding less inventory on the shelf and only ordering it, and therefore paying for it, when needed; delaying the start of a production order until that material comes in.

Of course as @OliverBlackman says above, if they keep increasing prices, then the demand may go down (particularly in this climate), which will reduce their orderbook and reduce the lead time.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Graham

[Happy Jack]

1 hour ago, spectoremg said:

Hmmm, massively overrated and massively overpriced. 

#eliteistcodswallop 

Wrong thread mate ... you're supposed to be over in Bass Guitars on the Alleva Coppolo topic.

[chris_b]

6 hours ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Is there any particular reason you have chosen the Mk1? I’m assuming you’ve played a few to know the difference and that you know what the neck profiles can be like?

This.

I get that these basses are very special, but, as an ex owner of Wal mk2 and mk3 5 strings (bought second hand), when it comes to the gig they are just another bass. They have to feel right and sound right. They are a lot of money and a very long wait only to find out you really wanted something else.

I'd buy a second hand Wal to work out what playing one on a  regular basis is like. After 6 months you might change your mind about some important bits. Then look at your need to drop a small fortune on a new one.

[Silvia Bluejay]

59 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Wrong thread mate ... you're supposed to be over in Bass Guitars on the Alleva Coppolo topic.

Yes. *prepares padlock for the inevitable*

Back on topic - paging @TrevorR for some Wal advice?

[jonno1981]

I’d imagine the return to prominence of tool and Justin Chancellor last year might have contributed to interest in the brand. 
I played one of the “new” basses a few years back and it was really something special. 

[Graham]

The Mk 3 five string I played at the SE Bass Bash a few years ago was the finest bass I've played and it's been top of my GAS list since.

This was the one in fact

At those prices I doubt I'll own one though, certainly not a new one.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

At the risk of inciting a wave of silly comments, in my experience (it may not be fact 😀), I can make my Wal sound ordinary and quite un-Wal like. What I’ve been unable to do is make any of my other basses sound like my Wal when it’s got ‘that’ sound dialled in. Plus, it’s just a work of art to look at and feels fabulous too. 

[Guest]

We should also celebrate a British brand and a bass that is genuinely unique - not a clone of something else but original in both design and execution. It’s just a shame they’re not a little more accessible price-wise. The original ethos was a solid, versatile and high-performing instrument for studio bassists (hence the very quiet electronics, superb shielding and XLR output) - very few pros would be able to afford one now.