How much music do you actually listen to?

[akabane]

3 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

I wonder how many followers of football actually play..? Or F1 enthusiasts race their cars..? Playing an instrument (or even being a musician...) doesn't mean one listens to any music, just some music. How many here, whilst listening to so much music, actually put Schubert, or Mozart, into their sound systems..? These things are not related; I'm not at all surprised.  

All your examples are useless, and you make them useless yourself in the very next sentence.

Followers of football might not play the game nor even know its rules but they watch the games. 

F1 enthusiasts who own race cars might leave them in the garage for a lifetime, yet they enthusiastically watch racing videos.

 

A 'music enthusiast' by the same parameters might not create music, nor play an instrument and just hang their beautiful Fodera on the wall to never be played, but will enthusiastically listen to music. 

It's how incidental development happens - you get exposed to things you're not necessarily always looking for even just by looking for what you like specifically. 

That being said, the only way the type of reasoning you want to put forward might be: "however, we are not on a music forum, we are on a bass instrument forum", which opens a whole another can of worms. 

Also, you then go on with the complete non-sequitur about the relation between what you like/listen to and other unrelated genres/styles (your Mozard and Schubert example) is, well...unrelated by definition. By the way, funny you should say that: most young people will never put Schuber nor Mozart in their 'sound systems', yet they will have heard or know their melodies. I wonder why, right? 

Doesn't mean everyone should actively go listen to Mozart. What they need to hear, the world will take care of. It's how popular music gets popular, it's how masterpiece become and stay masterpieces. Wheter you like it or not, you are going to get exposed to it. This naturally leaves out all the more niche genres, for which then we have all the smaller communities built around - and is where a lot of more interesting development can come from, like in everything else in life.

If we stay within the realm of 'bass players and musicians', then a prerequisite would be enjoying listening to music. Here I read of people who not only do not listen to music at all(life is busy and I'm not talking about who doesn't listen to other people's music because they're composing their own - which is still a big mistake in my mind, and ask any good composer) , but who actively recognise that listening to music is not a pleasurable activity to them anymore. And it hasn't been for more than a decade. To me that's just stupid. Not that it happened, of course everyone has their own reasons for whatever happens, but the fact that someone stayed in a situation of unpleasantness for so many years without getting out of it. We're talking the music world. Not the mafia.

The only other reason I can think of is that those people wouldn't be even good at flipping a burger at McDonald's instead, so they're forced to stay into playing music because it pays for their food and they don't have a choice, since the 'craft for life' they wanted to invest in was 'learning to play bass well enough to do covers'. Thus, as I said above, I feel sad for them in either case, not as a personal attack, as a genuinely sad feeling.

 

Peace! War!

Edited July 30, 2020 by akabane

[4000]

2 minutes ago, akabane said:

All your examples are useless, and you make them useless yourself in the very next sentence.

Followers of football might not play the game nor even know its rules but they watch the games. 

F1 enthusiasts who own race cars might leave them in the garage for a lifetime, yet they enthusiastically watch racing videos.

 

A 'music enthusiast' by the same parameters might not create music, nor play an instrument and just hang their beautiful Fodera on the wall to never be played, but will enthusiastically listen to music. 

It's how incidental development happens - you get exposed to things you're not necessarily always looking for even just by looking for what you like specifically. 

That being said, the only way the type of reasoning you want to put forward might be: "however, we are not on a music forum, we are on a bass instrument forum", which opens a whole another can of worms. 

Also, you then go on with the complete non-sequitur about the relation between what you like/listen to and other unrelated genres/styles (your Mozard and Schubert example) is, well...unrelated by definition. By the way, funny you should say that: most young people will never put Schuber nor Mozart in their 'sound systems', yet they will have heard or know their melodies. I wonder why, right? 

Doesn't mean everyone should actively go listen to Mozart. What they need to hear, the world will take care of. It's how popular music gets popular, it's how masterpiece become and stay masterpieces. Wheter you like it or not, you are going to get exposed to it. This naturally leaves out all the more niche genres, for which then we have all the smaller communities built around, like in everything else in life.

If we stay within the realm of 'bass players and musicians', then a prerequisite would be enjoying listening to music. Here I read of people who not only do not listen to music at all, but who actively recognise that listening to music is not a pleasurable activity to them anymore. And it hasn't been for more than a decade. To me that's just stupid. Not that it happened, of course everyone has their own reasons for whatever happens, but the fact that someone stayed in a situation of unpleasantness for so many years without getting out of it. We're talking the music world. Not the mafia.

The only other reason I can think of is that those people wouldn't be even good at flipping a burger at McDonald's instead, so they're forced to stay into playing music because it pays for their food and they don't have a choice, since the 'craft for life' they wanted to invest in was 'learning to play bass well enough to do covers'. Thus, as I said above, I feel sad for them in either case, not as a personal attack, as a genuinely sad feeling.

 

Peace!

But surely some people may enjoy playing music without necessarily needing to put a record on when they get home. In the same way someone might like having sex without needing to watch someone else doing it.😉 

[akabane]

2 minutes ago, 4000 said:

But surely some people may enjoy playing music without necessarily needing to put a record on when they get home. In the same way someone might like having sex without needing to watch someone else doing it.😉 

But...the moment you are playing music, you are also listening to it.

You can't really use that argument in the more abstract sense: it would be like saying "I like to speak Finnish" when I not only do not know the language, but I do not even know that such language exists in the first place. It's just an impossibility.

[4000]

10 minutes ago, akabane said:

But...the moment you are playing music, you are also listening to it.

You can't really use that argument in the more abstract sense: it would be like saying "I like to speak Finnish" when I not only do not know the language, but I do not even know that such language exists in the first place. It's just an impossibility.

I’ve known plenty of musicians who play without listening.😉

I’m not really sure what your point is. I’m sure the majority of the people who stated they don’t really listen to music anymore meant they don’t actively seek it out and then sit down and immerse themselves in it like they used to. And I’m sure you know that.

Also interesting that you post something that comes across as pretty rude and then end it with “peace!”, like that makes it ok. 

Edited July 30, 2020 by 4000

[akabane]

7 minutes ago, 4000 said:

I’ve known plenty of musicians who play without listening.😉

I’m not really sure what your point is. I’m sure the majority of the people who stated they don’t really listen to music anymore meant they don’t actively seek it out and then sit down and immerse themselves in it like they used to. And I’m sure you know that.

Also interesting that you post something that comes across as pretty rude and then end it with “peace!”, like that makes it ok. 

There, changed the salute at the end of the reply - hope it makes you happier

My reply was aimed not generally at OP's question, rather at some of the other replies that came through in the thread. I obviously know what you mean by that - although an argument could be made that ANY music plays itself and gets put to your ears. So, again...of course it's a more rethorical discussion.

What do you find rude about my reply? The fact I consider sad who finds listening to music unpleasant but keeps doing it because 'they have to learn it'? Because I said the reply someone made doesn't work in the context of their own reply? Why?

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by akabane

[Japhet]

I hardly listen to what I'd call 'new' music, mainly because in spite of a lifetime of listening, there's still a vast cache of quality stuff I've never experienced, so much so that with many artists they've done so much I have no idea where to start. I had random Ry Cooder stuff playing on Alexa the other day for hours. I've got Sonny Landreth on there at the moment.

[FinnDave]

14 minutes ago, akabane said:

But...the moment you are playing music, you are also listening to it.

You can't really use that argument in the more abstract sense: it would be like saying "I like to speak Finnish" when I not only do not know the language, but I do not even know that such language exists in the first place. It's just an impossibility.

I often think about listening to music in Finnish. I mean, my thinking is in Finnish, not the music, unless I am thinking about listening to Sibelius or perhaps Yö.

As one of the people who says they rarely listen to any music unless I am learning it for a band, I should add that the music I like most is burnt so deeply into my brain that I can experience it without the benefit of any music actually playing.

[4000]

4 minutes ago, akabane said:

There, changed the salute at the end of the reply - hope it makes you happier

My reply was aimed not generally at OP's question, rather at some of the other replies that came through in the thread. I obviously know what you mean by that - although an argument could be made that ANY music plays itself and gets put to your ears. So, again...of course it's a more rethorical discussion.

What do you find rude about my reply? The fact I consider sad who finds listening to music unpleasant but keeps doing it because 'they have to learn it'? Because I said the reply someone made doesn't work in the context of their own reply? Why?

 

Your tone was rude, IMO. Re-read your post.

It’s coming to something when I think someone else is just being pedantic.😂 

[Woodinblack]

7 minutes ago, akabane said:

What do you find rude about my reply? The fact I consider sad who finds listening to music unpleasant but keeps doing it because 'they have to learn it'? 

As a point of keeping on track, I am not sure anyone said they found listening to music unpleasant but did it because they have to learn it.

There were a few 'only listen when I have to  learn it', which is different.

I have listened to some songs that I found unpleasant because I had to learn them, but that is just the way of being in a covers group - you can't expect to like everything when there are other people in the group and I am sure there are other songs they don't like. In general I don't listen to music I don't like, once I have worked out I don't like it

 

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Woodinblack

[Dad3353]

51 minutes ago, akabane said:

All your examples are useless...

I'm not sure that Sibelius, Mozart et al immersed themselves in listening to music all the time. I think a lot of it was in their heads, between their ears, and they wrote some of it down. That's more like my take on being a musician, with its obvious spectrum of definitions. Hearing music does not a musician make, nor yet listening to music (although it's a Good Thing...). Being a bass player does not imply any necessity to listen to, nor hear, any genre at all, although most folks would not be completely cut off. I can understand folks wanting to listen to bass being played, for any number of reasons, but I can equally understand not wanting to, again, for many reasons. To me, they're not connected by any hard link, no more than an F1 follower being even of age to drive. S'not the same thing, being a racing driver and having an interest in driving fast all the time.
Still, we each have our different perspective on things. Mine are just, apparently, that much more 'useless' than others. 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Dad3353

[akabane]

6 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

I'm not sure that Sibelius, Mozart et al immersed themselves in listening to music all the time. I think a lot of it was in their heads, between their ears, and they wrote some of it down. That's more like my take on being a musician, with its obvious spectrum of definitions. Hearing music does not a musician make, nor yet listening to music (although it's a Good Thing...). Being a bass player does not imply any necessity to listen to, nor hear, any genre at all, although most folks would not be completely cut off. I can understand folks wanting to listen to bass being played, for any number of reasons, but I can equally understand not wanting to, again, for many reasons. To me, they're not connected by any hard link, no more than an F1 follower being even of age to drive. S'not the same thing, being a racing driver and having an interest in driving fast all the time.
Still, we each have our different perspective on things. Mine are just, apparently, that much more 'useless' than others. 

I said your EXAMPLES were useless. Not your perspective. As I supported in the rest of my reply. Thin skin, from grown up people, weird. 

Also, I am not suggesting people should IMMERSE THEMSELVES IN MUSIC ALL THE TIMES...where have I been extreme in my view? This reply makes more sense than the original one I replied to. No, you are not a musician BECAUSE you hear nor listen to music. 

However, you do not even GET to become nor even THINK about becoming a bass player without being exposed to music or heard the instrument before. Jesus, what is hard to understand about this? You all are making it sound like I'm trying to do mental gymnastics here.

Edited July 30, 2020 by akabane

[Dad3353]

Sorry; I'll just crawl back under my rock, then and leave the serious, intelligent posts to thicker-skinned persons than my humble self. Where's my sackcloth and fistful of nettles..? 

[ezbass]

Can we all just calm down a bit, please? So many threads are becoming slanging matches from out of nowhere. I like to follow threads that I’ve contributed to, but so many recently have descended into madness. It makes me sad. 😢

[ahpook]

5 minutes ago, ezbass said:

Can we all just calm down a bit, please? So many threads are becoming slanging matches from out of nowhere. I like to follow threads that I’ve contributed to, but so many recently have descended into madness. It makes me sad. 😢

Well said.

It quite often kills the thread too.

Edited July 30, 2020 by ahpook

[4000]

12 minutes ago, akabane said:

I said your EXAMPLES were useless. Not your perspective. As I supported in the rest of my reply. Thin skin, from grown up people, weird. 

Also, I am not suggesting people should IMMERSE THEMSELVES IN MUSIC ALL THE TIMES...where have I been extreme in my view? This reply makes more sense than the original one I replied to. No, you are not a musician BECAUSE you hear nor listen to music. 

However, you do not even GET to become nor even THINK about becoming a bass player without being exposed to music or heard the instrument before. Jesus, what is hard to understand about this? You all are making it sound like I'm trying to do mental gymnastics here.

Ah, I get it. You’re actually Ken Smith. Now it all makes sense. 😂

[Ricky 4000]

  

4 minutes ago, ahpook said:

Well said.

It quite often kills the thread too.

 

 

Yeah. 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Ricky 4000

[akabane]

1 minute ago, 4000 said:

Ah, I get it. You’re actually Ken Smith. Now it all makes sense. 😂

Damn *flees back to talkbass* 🤣

[Stub Mandrel]

48 minutes ago, ezbass said:

Can we all just calm down a bit, please? So many threads are becoming slanging matches from out of nowhere. I like to follow threads that I’ve contributed to, but so many recently have descended into madness. It makes me sad. 😢

It's the heat.

[Woodinblack]

17 hours ago, 4000 said:

Er......not really, not in my terms. 😂

I had a two day Dead-a-thon the other week, trying desperately to get into them for the umpteenth time. I failed. Again. 

No, nor my terms.

While I didn't put in the level of effort as you did, after this conversation yesterday I thought I would fix my ignorance, select them as artist on Apple Music, hit random and spent the afternoon listening. I used the skip button a few times. Maybe it is just the songs there (there were quite a few albums covering late 60s to late 80s) but they didn't seem to have that much of a range and I didn't find anything special so its not for me.

Maybe it is like that thread the other day, if it is something you grew up with it is special to you.

[4000]

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

No, nor my terms.

While I didn't put in the level of effort as you did, after this conversation yesterday I thought I would fix my ignorance, select them as artist on Apple Music, hit random and spent the afternoon listening. I used the skip button a few times. Maybe it is just the songs there (there were quite a few albums covering late 60s to late 80s) but they didn't seem to have that much of a range and I didn't find anything special so its not for me.

Maybe it is like that thread the other day, if it is something you grew up with it is special to you.

Well, we all get different things out of music and I have no problem with that, that’s how it should be. And I did enjoy them more than the last several times, so we’re on a positive upward curve. 

[FinnDave]

If you want to give the Dead a chance to impress ( and no one is saying you should) then skip the studio albums and stick to the live recordings. In my opinion, they were dull in the studio but came alive in front of audience.

I have most of the studio stuff and haven't listened to it in years - I only ever listen to the live stuff, of which there is plenty - almost all of their 2500 plus shows were recorded.

[SimonEdward]

No. I listen to quite a lot of new music.. but not the mainsteam "R&B" and "Indie" acts/bands that the populist media outlets circulate.

Now don't shoot me! 🔫  I host my own music on that orange cloud - whom I've had a marmite relationship over many years'; ring any bells?

Also, (over many years') I've struggled with my weight - but i've found music to be one of the key's - no pun intended. I put on my walking shoes, grab my mobile, put on a pair of wireless headphones and hit the pavement.. not the road - because that would be dangerous (!)

This is compilation No. 11 of eight tracks from mainly new-ish, independent and mostly unsigned musicians posting their music "out there". I'd never heard before; why not give them 30 seconds:-

https://soundcloud.com/simonedward/sets/indie-pop-2020-winter-playlist

 

[ubit]

On 30/07/2020 at 12:47, Dad3353 said:

I wonder how many followers of football actually play..? Or F1 enthusiasts race their cars..? Playing an instrument (or even being a musician...) doesn't mean one listens to any music, just some music. How many here, whilst listening to so much music, actually put Schubert, or Mozart, into their sound systems..? These things are not related; I'm not at all surprised.  

Indeed, but surely your love of music is what made you take up the bass in the first place. Followers of football have all most likely had a go at some time and found themselves to be rubbish, so never pursued it. F1 drivers are an elite and most have come from money, so that's out of most peoples reach. 

[Dad3353]

19 minutes ago, ubit said:

Indeed, but surely your love of music is what made you take up the bass in the first place...

Only up to a point. My 'listening' to music was, and still is, a mostly private, internal experience. My playing an instrument (drums, guitar, bass, whatever...) was, and still is, a more sociable activity, especially in early youth, playing with buddies or siblings. Nowadays, composition is of much more interest to me (I have ever-decreasing physical attributes for playing...), and I'd rather listen to what's in my head, and try to get it down, than try (and fail...) to re-create the sometimes naive pleasure of yesteryear. I've not enough time left to sort out dross from gems; I'll admit that, with this attitude, I'm missing out on some pure gold. I'm also avoiding a whole lot of 'carp'. I've enough stored up in my contracting memories to last a few more years yet, I hope, and don't feel the same need now as I did in my teens. We're all different, of course, but in the time I have left I'll get more pleasure from re-playing Joni Mitchell than having Radio 1 on. I'm in a different place now. 

[Lozz196]

On 30/07/2020 at 16:29, Japhet said:

I hardly listen to what I'd call 'new' music, mainly because in spite of a lifetime of listening, there's still a vast cache of quality stuff I've never experienced, so much so that with many artists they've done so much I have no idea where to start. I had random Ry Cooder stuff playing on Alexa the other day for hours. I've got Sonny Landreth on there at the moment.

That’s a good point, the band I’m currently in plays classic rock - Zeppelin, Purple, Rainbow etc - so I’ve been buying that and listening to it, as well as both enjoying it it helps me get in the mindset for playing it.