Mesa amps price cuts. No more middle man

[Al Krow]

7 hours ago, krispn said:

At that price I’d think so! 

Ah snooze, I lose!

Although now that prices have fallen to that of DG amps, I'd expect more new purchases, and used prices to follow on down to a level comparable to used DG Mk2s i.e. £700 used is likely to become the new norm. 

[krispn]

You in the market? 

[Al Krow]

16 minutes ago, krispn said:

You in the market? 

I guess none of us are never not entirely in the market for something or other! Maybe that's the definition of BC?!

A used WD-800 is something I'd be keen to try out at some point. I've still not found a better sounding amp than my Mesa M6 - I suspect that the WD 800 gets close. Although until lock down lifts the incentive isn't huge and I end up thinking whether I'll see much, if any, improvement over my lighter DG AO900 which I use for gigging.

@fretmeister is about to treat himself to a new amp to celebrate a new cab (of course!). As the protagonist of this thread he should really get a WD 800 and let us know if it's a step up from either his DG M900 or his Markbass MM (inappropriate to use the MB abbreviation for them on a MB thread, right?). That's only right and proper for an OP to dutifully pay the price, no? Although, if we're going down that road I'm still waiting for @Woodinblack to get himself a Zoom B1-4. I should probably sell him my spare one and tbf there's a fair bit of gear that I'd then be obliged to buy 😁

Edited August 1, 2020 by Al Krow

[mcnach]

On 27/07/2020 at 16:12, fretmeister said:

Andertons have just confirmed that Mesa are selling direct to the stores now so there are price cuts.

I have no idea how much the Mesa bass amps were before but one that I am familiar with - the Dual Rectifier - was £3100 and has now dropped to £2349. A reduction of £751.

 

I (and others too) have been moaning about Westside and their pricing for years. Seems like someone has finally realised that UK sales were being harmed.

 

For guitar amps the used market shouldn't suffer. Dual Recs sell at £1000 to £1200 and I can't see them dropping much. That's still half price.

 

Oh no!

That means I may be looking at their TT800, which I only put aside in my mind due to the price in the UK... hmmm

[mcnach]

On 28/07/2020 at 11:08, Noisyjon said:

Anderton's advertising the new MB TT-800 @£1,149...

Link: Anderton's - MB TT-800

That has piqued my interest/GAS/weak will 🤣

 

oh crap... 😍

[scalpy]

Just now, mcnach said:

 

oh crap... 😍

Exactly!

[Al Krow]

30 minutes ago, mcnach said:

Oh no!

That means I may be looking at their TT800, which I only put aside in my mind due to the price in the UK... hmmm

You'd be the second behind Mr Browning, who has already ordered his!

On 28/07/2020 at 19:26, Al Krow said:

Amazing what a few £hundred off a ridiculously bloated price does for demand and enthusiasm for a product!

Who would have guessed? 😁

😉

One thing I hadn't registered was just how BIG the WD-800 and TT-800 are. They're not your typical D class head size by any means.

[Musicman20]

If I ever get a new bass head, I'll be going Mesa. 

[agedhorse]

15 hours ago, Al Krow said:

You'd be the second behind Mr Browning, who has already ordered his!

😉

One thing I hadn't registered was just how BIG the WD-800 and TT-800 are. They're not your typical D class head size by any means.

They are a little bigger because of the feature set... there was no practical way to make them smaller given the controls and especially the rear panel features. 

[Al Krow]

5 hours ago, agedhorse said:

They are a little bigger because of the feature set... there was no practical way to make them smaller given the controls and especially the rear panel features. 

Thanks agedhorse. Yup there are indeed a lot of front & rear panel features. The way that DG dealt with that was by using sliders for a single 6 band EQ for their two channels (rather than having a separate EQ for each channel), which allowed them to pack in quite a few more features in the same overall size in their Mk2 model as the Mk1 - I think you'll find the DG Mk2s have a broadly comparable set of rear panel features to the two Mesa amps.

FWIW the comparable sizes, if we take my DG amp as "1 unit", are as follows:

DG AO900 2.9kg. Vol = "1 unit"; 

Mesa TT800 3.2kg. Vol = +45% compared to DG amp;

Mesa WD800 3.2kg. Vol = +90% (!) compared to DG amp - it was really this jump that caught my attention when I saw a reviewer holding one of the WD900s and thought: not heavy, but that's gonna be quite a bulky item to have in a shoulder gig bag.

I'm sure for many folk it's not going to be an issue, but just caught me a little by surprise when I spotted it.

I also note the TT800 features a 3 AT7 tube preamp vs the 1 AT7 on the WD-800. I'm guessing that gives it a significantly more "tubey" flavour and perhaps one of the reasons for the fact that the guys looking to buy on this thread seem to be making a bee line for that model over the WD800.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Al Krow

[Steve Browning]

6 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Thanks agedhorse. Yup there are indeed a lot of front & rear panel features. The way that DG dealt with was that by using sliders for a single 6 band EQ for their two channels (rather than having a separate EQ for each channel), which allowed them to pack in quite a few more features in the same overall size in their Mk2 model as the Mk1 - I think you'll find they have a broadly comparable set of rear panel features.

FWIW the comparable sizes, if we take my DG amp as "1 unit", are as follows

DG AO900 2.9kg. Vol = "1 unit" 

Mesa TT800 3.2kg. Vol = +45% compared to DG amp

Mesa WD800 3.2kg. Vol = +90% (!) compared to DG amp - it was really this jump that caught my attention when I saw a reviewer holding one of the WD900s and thought: not heavy, but that's gonna be quite a bulky item to have in a shoulder gig bag.

I'm sure for many folk it's not going to be an issue, but just caught me a little by surprise when I spotted it

I also note the TT800 features a 3 AT7 tube preamp vs the 1 AT7 on the WD-800. I'm guessing that gives it a significantly more "tubey" flavour and perhaps one of the reasons for the fact that the guys looking to buy on this thread seem to be making a bee line for that model over the WD800.

It was those extra valves that got my interest in the TT. A similar difference exists between the Walkabout and the M-Pulse. I am expecting the TT to be similar to the M-Pulse (which is pretty much exactly the same as my old B400).

[krispn]

In the TT one of the additional tubes is in the Subway channel which is 'new and improved' over the standard subway amps. The size of the WD800 likely harks back to the design of the original Walkabout  - keeping a recognisable form factor which loads of players loved and found to be very intuitive. I think both these new heads look great. I also believe that the TT will be all the better for having dedicated eq for each channel as there is always a compromise on shared eq amps which have additional drive capabilities be they guitar or bass. A killer clean tone can become a little bass heavy when drive is added or need more mids, need less top end etc etc. Having two independent eq's potentially removes any such niggles. The Walkabout was always designed to sound like a big tube amp in a small package and I'm sure the WD delivers just as the original Walkabout did - the demo's seem to suggest it does!

The price drop will obviously encourage more folks to consider one of these now they're more competitive but they still appear to have a really solid set of features which players want and christ knows they moaned about on various forums for years I cant imagine either of these amps would be bulky to carry in a should bag and it's certainly not heavy at 3.2kg considering what some peoples pedal boards clock in at!

I know it's fickle but out of all the class D amps on the market right now the Boogie WD and TT appeal to me a little more than the competition. I really like the feature set and the overall form factor/design. In saying that I gigged a Walkabout for a few years way back and it's a cracking little amp and I fell in love with Boogie amps in general as a teenager (a local music shop stocked Boogie amps way back in the 90's and they were so cool!).

I can only speak for myself but I think the Mesa drive sounds might have more wide spread appeal than the Microtubes amp circuits. I've yet to hear what the AO amp can do drive wise but I am familiar with the pedal and I know there are some good gain sounds  - my interest would be in the lower gain application.

 

 

[Al Krow]

Agree with most of that!

2 minutes ago, krispn said:

I can only speak for myself but I think the Mesa drive sounds might have more wide spread appeal than the Microtubes amp circuits. I've yet to hear what the AO amp can do drive wise but I am familiar with the pedal and I know there are some good gain sounds  - my interest would be in the lower gain application.

Just picking up on your last point, if I may: yup, it's in the no / low gain sound where I think the Mesa is likely to win out. The excellent clean tone of the DG amps is, for me anyway, out done by harmonic richness of my Mesa M6's clean tone with its single tube, even with a little grit introduced by DG drive. I'm kinda hoping that the TT800 will match this, but as I mentioned a few posts above - I'm not sure it will trump my AO900 sufficiently for me to make the jump, although I'm keen to see if I can get to hear one "in the flesh".

In terms of drive sounds and widespread appeal - DG have built up a large and loyal following for their drive pedals which, as you know, are featured in their amps. So I'm not sure it's going to be an easy one to call on the popularity stakes!

Sounds like you are quite tempted to go for either of the WD or TT?

[krispn]

The M6 is voiced to have a slight boost in the lows and mids where as the DG might be more even when set flat? I have an amp which is very similar to the M6 in its design and power section which is a bit more even when flat - it's just how the EQ isvoiced. The tube might well be warming it up over the DG but so will the overall eq voicing, the toroidal transformer, the mosfets etc. but at 12kg give or take you'd expect more heft/warmth sweetness (insert sonic adjective here) over a class d (controversial I know but...)

22 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

In terms of drive sounds and widespread appeal - DG have built up a large and loyal following for their drive pedals which, as you know, are featured in their amps. So I'm not sure it's going to be an easy one to call on the popularity stakes!

You've made similar wild claims abut all sorts of gear in the past so you can allow me this one   I just think the baked in DG sound, which I know you steered clear from and weren't a fan of for quite some time, is more divisive - people who love it love it and those that don't don't. It's a versatile amp for sure! I have another amp here which has a separate drive channel which can do a variety of sounds. I'd really need to A/B with a DG Microtubes to hear how similar they can sound - it might be more a kin to an Ampeg SVT4 or possibly the AO amps. I'll have to get a local bass bash on the go once civilisation can start back up!

I'd happily take either amp out for a test drive... only thing is my gigging future is likely to be more In ears based than amp based. It's unlikely I'd be buying any new amps for the foreseeable future - the two I have cover every gig I play when needed.

Edited August 3, 2020 by krispn

[Al Krow]

Haha! Who says I've come round to being a fan of DG drive pedals? Not sure I've varied too much on that one over many and varied wild claims 😁

Plenty of other folk are, though. 

[krispn]

19 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Haha! Who says I've come round to being a fan of DG drive pedals? Not sure I've varied too much on that one over many and varied wild claims 😁

Plenty of other folk are, though. 

I didn’t say you were a fan of the pedals but you’ve owned two DG amps now which you rightly identified have the pedal circuits built in. Whether or not you like the drive circuits or use them is your call. If the clean sound alone works for then rock on 🤘🏽 

[Steve Browning]

Just heard that my amp will arrive on 30th September!! That's a couple of weeks late for a proposed tour. That said,  that could equally not happen anyway. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Steve Browning

[agedhorse]

9 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Thanks agedhorse. Yup there are indeed a lot of front & rear panel features. The way that DG dealt with that was by using sliders for a single 6 band EQ for their two channels (rather than having a separate EQ for each channel), which allowed them to pack in quite a few more features in the same overall size in their Mk2 model as the Mk1 - I think you'll find the DG Mk2s have a broadly comparable set of rear panel features to the two Mesa amps.

FWIW the comparable sizes, if we take my DG amp as "1 unit", are as follows:

DG AO900 2.9kg. Vol = "1 unit"; 

Mesa TT800 3.2kg. Vol = +45% compared to DG amp;

Mesa WD800 3.2kg. Vol = +90% (!) compared to DG amp - it was really this jump that caught my attention when I saw a reviewer holding one of the WD900s and thought: not heavy, but that's gonna be quite a bulky item to have in a shoulder gig bag.

I'm sure for many folk it's not going to be an issue, but just caught me a little by surprise when I spotted it.

I also note the TT800 features a 3 AT7 tube preamp vs the 1 AT7 on the WD-800. I'm guessing that gives it a significantly more "tubey" flavour and perhaps one of the reasons for the fact that the guys looking to buy on this thread seem to be making a bee line for that model over the WD800.

Al - I think you have some kind of misunderstanding regarding these products and comparison between the two.

First of all, on the TT-800 each channel has its own eq because the eq circuits are VERY different nad in the case of the Boogie channel, is fundamental to the voicing and texture of that channel. A single eq, no matter how many bands, is a non-starter for us in a 2 channel, channel switching amp. On the WD-800, which is a single channel amp, there is a 2 band Baxandall bass-treble eq, a passive mid that is also part of the amp's inherent voicing, and also 3 bands of semi-parametric mid that is foot switchable. This is our take on eq that's appropriate to these products.

Regarding rear panel features, I don't see things that both the TT-800 and WD-800 include, things like level, ground lift on the DI(s), nor a tuner out, full size aux input jack, USB(A) power port. The parts that we use are a little bit larger in order to capitalize on mechanical robustness. Making this layout smaller is a non-starter regarding player-friendliness.

I don't follow your comparison on size. The WD-800 and TT--800 are the same size, a little larger than the Darkglass amp you mentioned. IF you wish  to compare based on size, then either the D-800 or D-800+ would be about the same (or smaller). 

 

Your assumption about the differences between the TT and WD make it clear that you haven't played either. They are entirely different amps, different tone profiles, different texture profiles, different feature sets and are designed to appeal to different players. The number of tubes is relatively independent to this, the signal path for the Boogie channel uses 1 tube and the signal path for the Subway channel uses 1/2 of a tube, one tube is common to both channels. It's HOW the tubes are used that matter, no different than every other aspect of a design.

May I suggest that you try the amps before making performance comparisons?

[Cuzzie]

1 hour ago, agedhorse said:

Al - I think you have some kind of misunderstanding regarding these products and comparison between the two.

First of all, on the TT-800 each channel has its own eq because the eq circuits are VERY different nad in the case of the Boogie channel, is fundamental to the voicing and texture of that channel. A single eq, no matter how many bands, is a non-starter for us in a 2 channel, channel switching amp. On the WD-800, which is a single channel amp, there is a 2 band Baxandall bass-treble eq, a passive mid that is also part of the amp's inherent voicing, and also 3 bands of semi-parametric mid that is foot switchable. This is our take on eq that's appropriate to these products.

Regarding rear panel features, I don't see things that both the TT-800 and WD-800 include, things like level, ground lift on the DI(s), nor a tuner out, full size aux input jack, USB(A) power port. The parts that we use are a little bit larger in order to capitalize on mechanical robustness. Making this layout smaller is a non-starter regarding player-friendliness.

I don't follow your comparison on size. The WD-800 and TT--800 are the same size, a little larger than the Darkglass amp you mentioned. IF you wish  to compare based on size, then either the D-800 or D-800+ would be about the same (or smaller). 

 

Your assumption about the differences between the TT and WD make it clear that you haven't played either. They are entirely different amps, different tone profiles, different texture profiles, different feature sets and are designed to appeal to different players. The number of tubes is relatively independent to this, the signal path for the Boogie channel uses 1 tube and the signal path for the Subway channel uses 1/2 of a tube, one tube is common to both channels. It's HOW the tubes are used that matter, no different than every other aspect of a design.

May I suggest that you try the amps before making performance comparisons?

On the money 👍🏾🤘🏾

[agedhorse]

Also, to clarify, a good part of the height of the chassis is due to the use of tubes in the design. How many tubes does the DG amp use, and might this affect the packaging options?

[Cuzzie]

1 minute ago, agedhorse said:

Also, to clarify, a good part of the height of the chassis is due to the use of tubes in the design. How many tubes does the DG amp use, and might this affect the packaging options?

I think they are tiny, it says they are microtubes.......

[BassManGraham]

Well I got a Subway 800+ at what I thought was a great price from Andertons a couple of years back about 250 off RRP it was actually cheaper than the Subway 800, may even have been a pricing error? These new prices are brilliant and even blow that bargain away!. I love the features and tone of the Mesa Subways. Though they do not seem as loud as Markbass and Quilter 800s I own. Looking forward to hear BC reviews of the TT800. May even buy one if gigs ever resume!

[agedhorse]

Just now, BassManGraham said:

Well I got a Subway 800+ at what I thought was a great price from Andertons a couple of years back about 250 off RRP it was actually cheaper than the Subway 800, may even have been a pricing error? These new prices are brilliant and even blow that bargain away!. I love the features and tone of the Mesa Subways. Though they do not seem as loud as Markbass and Quilter 800s I own. Looking forward to hear BC reviews of the TT800. May even buy one if gigs ever resume!

Note that the control tapers are designed so that there is a smooth increase in volume throughout the entire rotation. many amps use a taper that makes most of the range of control happen in the first 50% of the control's rotation. To that casual observer, this makes an amp appear louder when comparing using knob position only. The downside to this is that the range of real world adjustment is not as wide or smooth acting.

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, agedhorse said:

Al - I think you have some kind of misunderstanding regarding these products and comparison between the two.

First of all, on the TT-800 each channel has its own eq because the eq circuits are VERY different nad in the case of the Boogie channel, is fundamental to the voicing and texture of that channel. A single eq, no matter how many bands, is a non-starter for us in a 2 channel, channel switching amp. On the WD-800, which is a single channel amp, there is a 2 band Baxandall bass-treble eq, a passive mid that is also part of the amp's inherent voicing, and also 3 bands of semi-parametric mid that is foot switchable. This is our take on eq that's appropriate to these products.

Regarding rear panel features, I don't see things that both the TT-800 and WD-800 include, things like level, ground lift on the DI(s), nor a tuner out, full size aux input jack, USB(A) power port. The parts that we use are a little bit larger in order to capitalize on mechanical robustness. Making this layout smaller is a non-starter regarding player-friendliness.

I don't follow your comparison on size. The WD-800 and TT--800 are the same size, a little larger than the Darkglass amp you mentioned. IF you wish  to compare based on size, then either the D-800 or D-800+ would be about the same (or smaller). 

Your assumption about the differences between the TT and WD make it clear that you haven't played either. They are entirely different amps, different tone profiles, different texture profiles, different feature sets and are designed to appeal to different players. The number of tubes is relatively independent to this, the signal path for the Boogie channel uses 1 tube and the signal path for the Subway channel uses 1/2 of a tube, one tube is common to both channels. It's HOW the tubes are used that matter, no different than every other aspect of a design.

May I suggest that you try the amps before making performance comparisons?

Thanks for that detailed response.

You say they are the same size, but I was just going by the dimensions on the Thomann website which states that the WD 800 is 10.2 x 30.5 x 28.9 cm and the TT-800 8.8 x 25.8 x 30.5cm, which makes the WD 800's volume a decent chunk bigger, in my books.

Have Thomann got their numbers wrong?

If not then the WD 800 is 90% larger by volume than my DG amp. It's no big deal - more just an observation and something I would need to bear in mind if / when buying.

I was actually wondering (the phrase "I'm guessing") about how the two sounded with the additional tubes in the TT-800, rather than seeking to make a performance comparison - as you've rightly pointed out, I've not tried them (and certainly wasn't going to until Mesa changed their UK distributor and we average bass punters are no longer being charged exorbitant prices).

Edited August 3, 2020 by Al Krow

[agedhorse]

The amps are exactly the same size. I don't know for sure, but it's possible that they used the basic chassis size with one and the size with knobs, switches, handles and feet on the other, but thanks for pointing this out as they should be identical.