Mesa amps price cuts. No more middle man

[Cuzzie]

13 hours ago, agedhorse said:

The amps are exactly the same size. I don't know for sure, but it's possible that they used the basic chassis size with one and the size with knobs, switches, handles and feet on the other, but thanks for pointing this out as they should be identical.

Whenever I am looking for precise information it seems logical to go straight to the horses mouth and go to the manufacturers website - clearly states the sizes are the same.

2nd/3rd Party websites Are always subject to error, also if They are running Imperial metric conversions as well - loads of room for error 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Cuzzie

[BassManGraham]

14 hours ago, agedhorse said:

Note that the control tapers are designed so that there is a smooth increase in volume throughout the entire rotation. many amps use a taper that makes most of the range of control happen in the first 50% of the control's rotation. To that casual observer, this makes an amp appear louder when comparing using knob position only. The downside to this is that the range of real world adjustment is not as wide or smooth acting.

Many thanks for your comments and info. I thought the volume control may be more linear. TBH I never use the master vol on my Subway 800 above 11 or 12 oclock max. So point taken and I will endeavour to be less "casual" in my future observations! 😂🤣😂

I love the entire Mesa bass amp range and the relative price reduction in UK, does makes them far more competitive and accessible. Can't wait to try and compare the WD & TT. All I need is a few gigs and a green light to travel to UK!

[Al Krow]

6 minutes ago, BassManGraham said:

Many thanks for your comments and info. I thought the volume control may be more linear. TBH I never use the master vol on my Subway 800 above 11 or 12 oclock max. So point taken and I will endeavour to be less "casual" in my future observations! 😂🤣😂

 

[Thread derail warning!]

So have we finally cracked why Trace Elliot watts are louder?! 😂

Although I stumbled across this rather interesting piece by Stub Mandrel on the very subject. Just wondering if that is our very own @Stub Mandrel's website?!

[Al Krow]

On 03/08/2020 at 08:28, Steve Browning said:

It was those extra valves that got my interest in the TT. A similar difference exists between the Walkabout and the M-Pulse. I am expecting the TT to be similar to the M-Pulse (which is pretty much exactly the same as my old B400).

Looking forward to your review (I suspect we all are!) on the TT when it arrives.

Sounds like you've had both the Walkabout and M Pulse? If so, how would you describe the difference in sound between the two and the impact of the extra valves.

Dunno if you've ever also had / tried the Mesa Carbine series - I'm still in love with my M6 and would also be interested which of the other Mesa amps you've tried it's closest to in sound? The only other Mesa amp I've tried is the D800 and afraid it very much left me not wanting more! 

[mcnach]

15 hours ago, BassManGraham said:

Well I got a Subway 800+ at what I thought was a great price from Andertons a couple of years back about 250 off RRP it was actually cheaper than the Subway 800, may even have been a pricing error? These new prices are brilliant and even blow that bargain away!. I love the features and tone of the Mesa Subways. Though they do not seem as loud as Markbass and Quilter 800s I own. Looking forward to hear BC reviews of the TT800. May even buy one if gigs ever resume!

 

I haven't tried a Quilter, but every MarkBass amp I played (all in the LM range, actually, so others may be different?) had this thing where the volume will increase until the knob was at around 1 or 2 o'clock max. The Mesa D800+ seems to just keep going (I never maxed either amp). I think a lot of the difference you mention is to do with the taper of the volume control.

[Steve Browning]

42 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Looking forward to your review (I suspect we all are!) on the TT when it arrives.

Sounds like you've had both the Walkabout and M Pulse? If so, how would you describe the difference in sound between the two and the impact of the extra valves.

Dunno if you've ever also had / tried the Mesa Carbine series - I'm still in love with my M6 and would also be interested which of the other Mesa amps you've tried it's closest to in sound? The only other Mesa amp I've tried is the D800 and afraid it very much left me not wanting more! 

You'll see from my signature that I still have a Walkabout and a pair of M-Pulse 600's.

I am probably not able to give a great comparison. That's because the Walkabout hasn't ever been used as a standalone amp, always in the combo. The physics of that (the down-firing radiator etc) mean I would be loathe to give a definitive view.

Having said that, I love the sound of that combo so I'm perfectly happy with that. I went from a B400 to a 400+ (for the sake of clarity, I had both the 400 and 400+ - the latter had gone when this was taken) and then the M-Pulse. Aside from the fact I found the 400+ a little more detailed that the 400 I have found that the 'core' sound of them is pretty much the same. I describe it as a sort of Boogie dna (agedhorse may think that as idiotic). Every amp I have heard has had it.

My decision to go for the TT as opposed to a WD was very much down to those extra valves and fact that they had made a conscious decision to replicate the B400 tone stack. I'm very old fashioned in terms of the sound I want (I tell engineers to give me Bohemian Rhapsody). I fell in love with the sound of my B400 and 2x15s in 1988 and have not ever changed (other than to buy lighter Boogie stuff).

The picture shows that journey and comes from a session in a rehearsal studio when I took the two rigs in for a comparison. My ears didn't really detect any great difference between the two 'big' rigs. There are obvious differences (graphic eq and parametric) but that basic sound was there. I believe that the TT is going to carry that journey on without any marked change in the sound.

I will do the same when the TT arrives and hope that I'm right.

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Steve Browning

[Al Krow]

Cheers @Steve Browning 

"agedhorse may think that as idiotic" ... you're making me feel a whole bunch better, already, to know I'm in good company 😁

[krispn]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

[Thread derail warning!]

So have we finally cracked why Trace Elliot watts are louder?! 😂

Although I stumbled across this rather interesting piece by Stub Mandrel on the very subject. Just wondering if that is our very own @Stub Mandrel's website?!

Let’s not forget that TE also has the traffic light ‘Goldilocks’ zone for optimum  input gain to help us out!

The demo videos on the Mesa site are worth a watch to hear a description and get a flavour of the amps albeit in isolation. 

[Al Krow]

Cheers buddy - I did have a listen to the clips on the Mesa website but, for me, it loses a fair bit of "definition" which I guess is to be expected in video recording and online transmission. There is going to be a ton of compression going on in that process and the complex harmonic richness, which for me is the Mesa trademark goodness I'm looking for, is much harder to discern. Let me know if you can hear it coming through?

[Steve Browning]

4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Cheers buddy - I did have a listen to the clips on the Mesa website but, for me, it loses a fair bit of "definition" which I guess is to be expected in video recording and online transmission. There is going to be a ton of compression going on in that process and the complex harmonic richness, which for me is the Mesa trademark goodness I'm looking for, is much harder to discern. Let me know if you can hear it coming through?

I don't find the guy's playing style too helpful either. He doesn't demo the gear in the style I play.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Steve Browning

[krispn]

As ever the only way to really know is to go and demo one for yourself and if you can take your M6 or whichever amp you’re comparing it too. Wait until Bass Direct get them all in and treat yourself to a day out!

Online demo’s don’t always give us the sounds we’d prefer to use. I rarely slap and rarely play with a pick. As an example I don’t think I’ve ever heard a Darkglass amp or pedal review which highlighted a less driven sound which is something I’d gravitate towards but that’s not a typically DG sound. I do think it’s sometimes easier to hear a demo than have a sound described as we all have different parameters or ways of describing what we hear. 
I suppose if we’re seriously in the market we’ll take a punt knowing that we can return within 14 days and really out the amp through its paces. 

[Cuzzie]

2 hours ago, krispn said:

As ever the only way to really know is to go and demo one for yourself and if you can take your M6 or whichever amp you’re comparing it too. Wait until Bass Direct get them all in and treat yourself to a day out!

Online demo’s don’t always give us the sounds we’d prefer to use. I rarely slap and rarely play with a pick. As an example I don’t think I’ve ever heard a Darkglass amp or pedal review which highlighted a less driven sound which is something I’d gravitate towards but that’s not a typically DG sound. I do think it’s sometimes easier to hear a demo than have a sound described as we all have different parameters or ways of describing what we hear. 
I suppose if we’re seriously in the market we’ll take a punt knowing that we can return within 14 days and really out the amp through its paces. 

Aye - that’s best - i never really find any demo nails what I do, but i try to educate myself on the feature set and hear as many parameters available as possible and then imagine within the range of what something does, will it get what I want.

Often things will be derivatives of what is around, Fender tone stack, baxendall, certain power sections etc all have their own flavour, piece em together and finally see what extra the manufacturers may have put in or altered slightly and to get your recipe - it’s why the “ooo what’s your settings” doesn’t really hold water. I’d also wager most amps, especially decent ones will do most types of music if sensibly used

Edited August 4, 2020 by Cuzzie
Sausage thumbs

[agedhorse]

6 hours ago, Al Krow said:

[Thread derail warning!]

So have we finally cracked why Trace Elliot watts are louder?! 😂

Although I stumbled across this rather interesting piece by Stub Mandrel on the very subject. Just wondering if that is our very own @Stub Mandrel's website?!

There is a fair amount of truth to what is posted on his website. A couple of errors though:

1. The term music power, peak music power, peak to peak power were all used starting in the 1960's not the 1980's. This is the reason for the FTC (U.S. Federal Trade Commission) rules requiring standardized power rating testing for HOME audio (hi-fi) products. This does not apply to pro audio or audio products used in the musical instrument markets (which are a tiny fraction of the size of the domestic audio market) 

2. The term "route" mean squared is actually ROOT mean squared, and is a mathematical approach to a specific type of average power that is independent of waveform shape. 

[Deepbass]

Who will be the authorised UK Mesa repair centre then and the source of spares and circuit diagrams etc if the distributor (who has been that source) is no longer involved...?

[agedhorse]

6 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Cheers @Steve Browning 

"agedhorse may think that as idiotic" ... you're making me feel a whole bunch better, already, to know I'm in good company 😁

To clarify, I never said anything about being idiotic.

There are certainly common tonal themes across most of the bass amp models, going back 50 years. That's bound to be the case of course, given that the designers of those models were consistent over most of those years.

The exceptions are (imo and ime) the Carbines, Big Block and Titan (which were very much a more modern take on bass amps, paralleling the rectifier series popularity), the Strategy/Prodigy (which focused on a tighter approach to bass amp overdrive while maintaining the aggressive voicings of the Carbines), and to a lesser extent the Walkabout (which was distinctly different in many ways).

I was brought on board to bring more focus into the bass amp/speaker products without the distraction and workload of designing guitar products at the same time. 

My goal is to take the best, most popular elements of a particular amp family and combine these with new features, new approaches, refinements and to update the products so that they meet the needs and expectations of today's players.

For players this doesn't work for, that's fine. There is no shortage of good used amps of all types (and at bargain prices too... a bonus to players that these amps appeal to).

[Steve Browning]

7 minutes ago, agedhorse said:

To clarify, I never said anything about being idiotic.

There are certainly common tonal themes across most of the bass amp models, going back 50 years. That's bound to be the case of course, given that the designers of those models were consistent over most of those years.

The exceptions are (imo and ime) the Carbines, Big Block and Titan (which were very much a more modern take on bass amps, paralleling the rectifier series popularity), the Strategy/Prodigy (which focused on a tighter approach to bass amp overdrive while maintaining the aggressive voicings of the Carbines), and to a lesser extent the Walkabout (which was distinctly different in many ways).

I was brought on board to bring more focus into the bass amp/speaker products without the distraction and workload of designing guitar products at the same time. 

My goal is to take the best, most popular elements of a particular amp family and combine these with new features, new approaches, refinements and to update the products so that they meet the needs and expectations of today's players.

For players this doesn't work for, that's fine. There is no shortage of good used amps of all types (and at bargain prices too... a bonus to players that these amps appeal to).

I didn't mean to imply you had. Funnily enough, all my Boogie amps have been the very ones you don't list as exceptions. I am looking forward to getting the TT even more now.

Now if you could speed up my amp to Anderton's, that would be great. 🙂

[agedhorse]

6 minutes ago, Deepbass said:

Who will be the authorised UK Mesa repair centre then and the source of spares and circuit diagrams etc if the distributor (who has been that source) is no longer involved...?

If you go to our website, there is a tab for international service centers. If you search on "Europe", on the left side is a list that includes many pages of European service centers including quite a few in the U.K. This list is increasing every week.

We have had several complaints about "only 4 service centers in all of Europe???" when looking at that landing page, without realizing that there are MANY additional pages of European service centers.

Hope this helps.

[agedhorse]

5 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

I didn't mean to imply you had. Funnily enough, all my Boogie amps have been the very ones you don't list as exceptions. I am looking forward to getting the TT even more now.

Now if you could speed up my amp to Anderton's, that would be great. 🙂

Your amp is being built now!

[Deepbass]

11 minutes ago, agedhorse said:

If you go to our website, there is a tab for international service centers. If you search on "Europe", on the left side is a list that includes many pages of European service centers including quite a few in the U.K. This list is increasing every week.

We have had several complaints about "only 4 service centers in all of Europe???" when looking at that landing page, without realizing that there are MANY additional pages of European service centers.

Hope this helps.

Thanks agedhorse - that definitely helps...there is indeed a number of them in England...I have a MBass 2000 that isn't working ... I understand that there is a lot of stuff packed in there which can make it time consuming to repair...in light of the new TT which is also a hybrid amp would you say the 2000 is still worth it and/or cost effective to repair...? 

[Steve Browning]

20 minutes ago, agedhorse said:

Your amp is being built now!

Can I have a signed one? 🙂

[agedhorse]

22 minutes ago, Deepbass said:

Thanks agedhorse - that definitely helps...there is indeed a number of them in England...I have a MBass 2000 that isn't working ... I understand that there is a lot of stuff packed in there which can make it time consuming to repair...in light of the new TT which is also a hybrid amp would you say the 2000 is still worth it and/or cost effective to repair...? 

That's a good question. The M-2000 is quite a unique amp and not very intuitive to use because of so many options for signal routing within the basic signal path. There is a lot of stuff going on, it was an expensive (actually very expensive) amp to build, it's difficult to work on and it's generally fairly expensive to repair (depending on what's wrong of course). 

If the M-2000 does what you want and fills your needs, than I would certainly recommend that you get some kind of estimate to see where you might stand on the cost. If it isn't your "must have" amp, there is certainly a market for such an amp as it does have its fan base. Some of these folks might be willing to buy it not working because if they want one, there are a very limited number that were built and are otherwise difficult to obtain.

You will have to make this determination based on your own personal tastes, needs and circumstances.

[Steve Browning]

59 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

Can I have a signed one? 🙂

Actually, and in all seriousness, can folk who make amps that are rack'able please put a parallel input on the back? It can be a right pain to get to an input on the front if there's other stuff in the rack.

[agedhorse]

1 minute ago, Steve Browning said:

Actually, and in all seriousness, can folk who make amps that are rack'able please put a parallel input on the back? It can be a right pain to get to an input on the front if there's other stuff in the rack.

I've done this on some past designs and it's become less and less asked for, especially on amps that have effects loops and where line level rack mounted effects are being used. Otherwise, a front input only covers 99% of these applications.

For those rack mount tuners that do not have a front parallel output and/or do not have a rear panel input to take advantage of the rear panel tuner output provided by many amps, that's something that would be more useful for that specific need IMO. 

[Deepbass]

2 hours ago, agedhorse said:

That's a good question. The M-2000 is quite a unique amp and not very intuitive to use because of so many options for signal routing within the basic signal path. There is a lot of stuff going on, it was an expensive (actually very expensive) amp to build, it's difficult to work on and it's generally fairly expensive to repair (depending on what's wrong of course). 

If the M-2000 does what you want and fills your needs, than I would certainly recommend that you get some kind of estimate to see where you might stand on the cost. If it isn't your "must have" amp, there is certainly a market for such an amp as it does have its fan base. Some of these folks might be willing to buy it not working because if they want one, there are a very limited number that were built and are otherwise difficult to obtain.

You will have to make this determination based on your own personal tastes, needs and circumstances.

Thanks agedhorse that is very helpful...(yes I believe they were more expensive than the 400 / 400 + at the time?)...

...I've not had that much experience with the amp before it stopped working so I'm not totally au fait with what it can do and what it can't with regard to the way that I'd use it or how easy it is to get the sound one is after out of it...

I've heard some You Tube clips though in which it sounds very powerful and dynamic...and quite a lot of people on the forums speak very highly of it ... I think you are right though an estimate (or even a quote) if I can get someone to do that is definitely the way forward...

I wondered what amp in your opinion is it closest too (if any) sound wise to other amps Mesa have made over the years and does it have any similarities soundwise to the new TT...?

[agedhorse]

The M-2000 was kind of its own animal, so many options that it's not really comparable IMO to any one amp. That's what made it desirable but is also what turned other players away from it.