Mesa amps price cuts. No more middle man

[Deepbass]

Thanks agedhorse that is a good way of summing it up I'd say...

.... I wonder if I could also ask you then if you would say that if you know how to use it you should be able to get more or less any sound out of it that you might get from most other amps....

....or alternatively would it be more accurate to say if you know how to use it you can get sounds that you might not get out of most other amps....?

Of course neither of those scenarios might apply...to explain the reason for those questions....with the limited experience I have had with it I think that I am currently probably somewhere between those two scenarios but willing once / if it is repaired to put the time in to try to get to grips with all the options...but on that it would be useful to know what is reasonably possible once all the many tone-shaping options etc are understood...

[Deepbass]

16 minutes ago, agedhorse said:

The M-2000 was kind of its own animal, so many options that it's not really comparable IMO to any one amp. That's what made it desirable but is also what turned other players away from it.

Apologies I forgot to quote the above when writing the previous post...

"

[agedhorse]

The M-2000 is capable of a range of tones, but within the family of the BB and Titan (and the Buster/Bass 400 to a lesser extent). It's really an amp that you need to get to know personally, not an easy amp to get along with but if you do, it's hard to beat. Some of the tones, especially the overdriven tones, are fairly unique IMO.

 

[Steve Browning]

5 hours ago, agedhorse said:

The M-2000 is capable of a range of tones, but within the family of the BB and Titan (and the Buster/Bass 400 to a lesser extent). It's really an amp that you need to get to know personally, not an easy amp to get along with but if you do, it's hard to beat. Some of the tones, especially the overdriven tones, are fairly unique IMO.

 

This was exactly my experience. When I first got my Bass 400 I didn't get it immediately. I even went back to my Orange heads for a while. I started again and it took me a little while to understand how the tone circuit works. 

Well worth the perseverance I assure you. 

[krispn]

Mesa amps both guitar and bass were never as straightforward as their control layout would have had you believe. I geeked out reading the manuals way too much in my teens but it really made me appreciate that every amp builder/amp can have its own quirks and it really does pay to RTFM if you can get access to it. 
 

 

[agedhorse]

37 minutes ago, krispn said:

Mesa amps both guitar and bass were never as straightforward as their control layout would have had you believe. I geeked out reading the manuals way too much in my teens but it really made me appreciate that every amp builder/amp can have its own quirks and it really does pay to RTFM if you can get access to it. 
 

 

Agreed. To this point, much effort was put into making the controls of the Subway line more intuitive. 

[Deepbass]

9 hours ago, agedhorse said:

The M-2000 is capable of a range of tones, but within the family of the BB and Titan (and the Buster/Bass 400 to a lesser extent). It's really an amp that you need to get to know personally, not an easy amp to get along with but if you do, it's hard to beat. Some of the tones, especially the overdriven tones, are fairly unique IMO.

 

Great thanks  and thanks to all for the further posts on this... 

...all of that said once someone understands the M-2000 well enough should it be possible to get a reasonably wide range of funk and jazz and reggae type tones out of it - or is it predominantly a rock and metal bass players amp...? 

[Deepbass]

3 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

This was exactly my experience. When I first got my Bass 400 I didn't get it immediately. I even went back to my Orange heads for a while. I started again and it took me a little while to understand how the tone circuit works. 

Well worth the perseverance I assure you. 

Great thanks 

[Chienmortbb]

On 27/07/2020 at 16:12, fretmeister said:

Andertons have just confirmed that Mesa are selling direct to the stores now so there are price cuts.

I have no idea how much the Mesa bass amps were before but one that I am familiar with - the Dual Rectifier - was £3100 and has now dropped to £2349. A reduction of £751.

 

I (and others too) have been moaning about Westside and their pricing for years. Seems like someone has finally realised that UK sales were being harmed.

 

For guitar amps the used market shouldn't suffer. Dual Recs sell at £1000 to £1200 and I can't see them dropping much. That's still half price.

Can anyone tell me why I would buy an amp that, weven with the new pricing, is close to 2.5 times what I paid for my bass new?

[Al Krow]

10 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Can anyone tell me why I would buy an amp that, even with the new pricing, is close to 2.5 times what I paid for my bass new?

I get that. And for that very reason a lot of folk buy used rather than new (as I do with most of my basses, or when they're on sale / end of line discount).

The TT-800 is now around £1,150 new (instead of 30% more when Westside were taking their cut), but if you're prepared to wait then perhaps £700 to £800 used in a year or so's time.

Still a lot I know, but quality doesn't necessarily come cheap!

Edited August 5, 2020 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

30 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Can anyone tell me why I would buy an amp that, weven with the new pricing, is close to 2.5 times what I paid for my bass new?

Because you love the sound of it

[Steve Browning]

50 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Can anyone tell me why I would buy an amp that, weven with the new pricing, is close to 2.5 times what I paid for my bass new?

I my case, because I trust Boogie gear. I took a £3k punt in 1988 that has paid off handsomely as I have kept pretty much the same rig while others have paid out (possibly) more chopping and changing over the course of that time.

 

[mcnach]

58 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Can anyone tell me why I would buy an amp that, weven with the new pricing, is close to 2.5 times what I paid for my bass new?

 

Because you like its features and sound?

Frankly, I am not sure what the price of my bass has to do with what I pay for an amplifier 

[Chienmortbb]

8 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

Because you like its features and sound?

Frankly, I am not sure what the price of my bass has to do with what I pay for an amplifier 

Good point. It was a silly statement really but what I was trying to say was that no amplifier is worth £2000+ to me. Incidently the same applies to basses.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Chienmortbb

[Al Krow]

On 04/08/2020 at 13:36, krispn said:

I suppose if we’re seriously in the market we’ll take a punt knowing that we can return within 14 days and really out the amp through its paces. 

Retailers margins are slim at the best of times and returns are an absolute killer for them on that score. I would never order a product if there was a decent chance I might return it as I was just at the trying it out / not made my mind up stage.

Returns for me are for faulty items only. But that's my approach - I'm sure plenty others will be happy to disagree and comfortable with a try and return approach. 

[krispn]

21 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Retailers margins are slim at the best of times and returns are an absolute killer for them on that score. I would never order a product if there was a decent chance I might return it as I was just at the trying it out / not made my mind up stage.

Returns for me are for faulty items only. But that's my approach - I'm sure plenty others will be happy to disagree and comfortable with a try and return approach. 

Retailers margins are slim and I'm not suggesting folks would or could walk into a shop and pay ££££'s just to demo an amp or bass at home or take it to a gig that night and return it on Monday morning. As a consumer it's good to know that being 80-90% certain that the product is right for you can be confirmed when one has actually spent some time using it and I'd imagine most folk have this confirmed after purchase and some time spent with the gear. If it doesn't work out then the security of being able to return it is also a bonus.

I just bought some new pick ups and had to return them due to a fault. I didn't spend £££ to demo them for fun with the intent to send them back after a week and a bit of a muck about and I doubt many of us are doing that with amp and bass purchases. I'm sure you've mentioned returning a bass which had some cosmetic flaws under the finish after the retailer flew it in from Germany for you - if the retailer had of cut their own throat to give you the additional discount you wanted you'd have happily walked away with the bass in question gleeful at the bargain and little regard for the margins. That's not to imply most of us wouldn't have bitten their hand off either it's just an example of this moral fluidity when a bargain means more than a margin. I've never returned a pedal I bought used to a retailer and got a refund for it but I know folk who have. I guess if the pedal was gonna be replaced anyway it's not important who the retailer gives the refund to and we can praise the shop for their customer service even if we've basically pulled fly one!

I've never had direct dealings with Westside Distribution so have no idea what they're like to communicate with as a customer. I'd be lying to say I'd any idea of the associated costs of being a distributor - staffing, importing, storing, servicing and maintaining warrant etc. As a consumer I have bought Dunlop strings, MXR gear, a Pedaltrain board, WayHuge pedals, a mono case, Levy's strap etc all distributed by Westside and never had an issue. I suppose their margins are less relative to retailers? People are rightly or wrongly giving Westside a hard time for the mark up but it happens with all manner of products all the time form cars to kitchens. We 'expect' to pay more for some brands and it's notable that the other product they distribute are rarely cited in these sorts of debate.

 

[Al Krow]

If you look at international transfer pricing a distributor typically takes around a 3% mark up. What was getting everyone rightly stoked was the 30% margin Westside were slapping on! If they were adding any value for that we would be missing them. But I'm not hearing too many violins from us punters that they've been taken out of the supply chain. 

[krispn]

I don’t think 30% is acceptable either and it explains why I’ve never bought a new Mesa anything even if I do think highly of their gear. Some gear only becomes accessible to most of us at used prices. I can live with that. 

[fretmeister]

Aye. Nobody has a problem with a distributor needing to get paid.

Taking the fosters with the mark up is entirely different.

 

I am wondering if there are many people who bought something at RRP 3 weeks before the change though. Poor sods.

[stevie]

I'd be reluctant to blame Westside without knowing what deal they had with Mesa. As far as I can tell, prices in the rest of Europe were comparable with those in the UK.

[krispn]

23 hours ago, stevie said:

I'd be reluctant to blame Westside without knowing what deal they had with Mesa. As far as I can tell, prices in the rest of Europe were comparable with those in the UK.

That’s kinda what I was implying at the end of my earlier reply. A lot of the gear Westside distributes doesn’t share the mark up of 30% so why does Mesa gear command that? Is it related to the cost of repair or simple because Mesa is a top marque brand and Westside could add that mark up? I guess we’ll never know

[LukeFRC]

On 04/08/2020 at 18:20, agedhorse said:

If you go to our website, there is a tab for international service centers. If you search on "Europe", on the left side is a list that includes many pages of European service centers including quite a few in the U.K. This list is increasing every week.

We have had several complaints about "only 4 service centers in all of Europe???" when looking at that landing page, without realizing that there are MANY additional pages of European service centers.

Hope this helps.

If you search United Kingdom... or whatever country you're in you get more specific results.

[LukeFRC]

On 03/08/2020 at 19:40, Al Krow said:

If not then the WD 800 is 90% larger by volume than my DG amp. It's no big deal - more just an observation and something I would need to bear in mind if / when buying.

I would never have thought that the comparative volume of a small amp would be much of a consideration.  Surely if you are dropping a fair bit of money on an amp (from whoever) the tone is the main thing that matters. Otherwise get a TE elf or something

[Cuzzie]

2 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

I would never have thought that the comparative volume of a small amp would be much of a consideration.  Surely if you are dropping a fair bit of money on an amp (from whoever) the tone is the main thing that matters. Otherwise get a TE elf or something

I agree with that entirely, the only time you may ‘compromise’ or have to think properly about footprint is if you are public transporting to gigs. Genuinely the DG amp being a little smaller will fit into a gig bag pocket. If you can fit amp, cables,bass in a gig bag and cab in the other hand - you are laughing. 
If you are driving, and have other stuff like the PA, desk etc you have to load up, the size difference is so minimal it becomes a non issue, all of those amps fit into a DJ mix bag like the ones from fusion with cables, mics etc and become a 1 carry - done that with a 2U rack size amp.

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

I would never have thought that the comparative volume of a small amp would be much of a consideration.  Surely if you are dropping a fair bit of money on an amp (from whoever) the tone is the main thing that matters. Otherwise get a TE elf or something

Power, quality, responsiveness, EQ, additional feature sets (drive etc), price, tone, weight, size, finish, reputation of brand / reliability and design are all factors I take into account to a greater or lesser extent. 

Sure tone can be a very important factor when deciding to get an amp, but it's certainly not the sole factor (for me anyway) particularly as my amp doesn't have the biggest single impact on tone in my signal chain - and that's by quite a long way; a single drive or filter / synth pedal can easily swamp the nuance of tone that one D class amp brings to the party compared to another. 

Equally, and just to reiterate, the volume (i.e. size rather than watts!) of the unit wasn't really meant to be a major thread discussion point, it was more just an observation: other things being equal my preference has always been for compactness & portability and these have been key reasons in e.g. me taking a BF SC to rehearsals and gigs in place of my IMO significantly tonally superior Fearless F112. It's the same point about lightweight basses for some. We all have different priorities.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Al Krow