Fretboard Woods

[chris_b]

In the context of a musical instrument, wood does have a sound. It absolutely does on an acoustic instrument so why should that feature of the material be absent on an electric instrument?

The way every part of a bass is made and the materials it is made from has the potential to affect the sound of the instrument. Some parts will have a large impact on the sound and others not so much. Some people can hear the differences and some can't.

I had several conversations with Pete at Wal about how they chose the wood for their basses and how the different woods would affect the end sound. I would believe the likes of Pete Stephens, Roger Sadowsky, Michael Tobias etc when they say that wood and construction will have an influence on the sound of a bass before the opinion of an accountant/postman [add profession here] who plays bass for a hobby. No sleight intended.

Having owned several maple boards I have decided I don't like the way they wear and mark, so prefer dark wood boards eg rosewood/morado etc.

edit for spelling!!

Edited July 30, 2020 by chris_b

[CameronJ]

2 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

That one does say it's the same strings.

Ah, you’re right. I wasn’t paying attention!

[BigRedX]

22 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Different body woods and different neck woods

 

 

It's 4 different basses. Of course each one is going to sound slightly different. Whether it's down to the woods used or any of the other components, the differences in construction - remember that the neck with the maple board is made differently to those with rosewood, and do we know how many pieces of wood are used in each body? - or a combination of everything.

However once you drop that bass part into a band mix no-one is going to be able to tell the difference.

[Bobthedog]

I have nothing to offer scientifically on this and have traditionally been a naysayer. However, it is interesting to me to note that having owned a few basses over time, of the ones that I sold, they all had plain maple fretboards. The ones kept are mostly rosewood type woods, with one spalted maple.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Bobthedog

[ped]

2 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

It's 4 different basses. Of course each one is going to sound slightly different. Whether it's down to the woods used or any of the other components, the differences in construction - remember that the neck with the maple board is made differently to those with rosewood, and do we know how many pieces of wood are used in each body? - or a combination of everything.

However once you drop that bass part into a band mix no-one is going to be able to tell the difference.

I suppose the thing is that some of us have probably played tens or even hundreds of Precision basses (as an example) over the years and have found that maple is brighter on average. It would seem to bear out from peoples observations generally.

As for the second part - the audience can't tell the difference - I think we all agree that we don't play bass for the audience alone and enjoy the minutiae that makes playing bass or any instrument such a passion.

[chris_b]

Just now, BigRedX said:

However once you drop that bass part into a band mix no-one is going to be able to tell the difference.

That depends on the context of the gig. Are you playing in the Dog and Duck, Later with Jools, the Albert Hall or at Muscle Shoals studio. Are you a loud noisy band or a quiet musically complex band? A Flea or Freddy Washington?

Fortunately there are guys making basses for all those situations because it seems to be a thing that many players can hear the differences in their basses.

[EBS_freak]

Here's the thing. You don't know what a bass sounds like til it's built in it's entirety.

As soon as you add in electrics, the material type is even of less importance.

Like most things that people become obsessive about, it's all boils down to hoodoo. 

 

[BigRedX]

5 minutes ago, chris_b said:

In the context of a musical instrument, wood does have a sound. It absolutely does on an acoustic instrument so why should that feature of the material be absent on an electric instrument?

The way every part of a bass is made and the materials it is made from has the potential to affect the sound of the instrument. Some parts will have a large impact on the sound and others not so much. Some people can hear the differences and some can't.

I had several conversations with Pete at Wal about how they chose the wood for their basses and how the different woods would affect the end sound. I would believe the likes of Pete Stephens, Roger Sadowsky, Michael Tobias etc when they say that wood and construction will have an influence on the sound of a bass before the opinion of an accountant/postman [add profession here] who plays bass for a hobby. No sleight intended.

Having owned several maple boards I have decided I don't like the way they wear and mark, so prefer dark wood boards eg rosewood/morado etc.

edit for spelling!!

The thing is that acoustic and electric instruments are made in completely different ways and the woods are chosen and treated completely differently because of this. On a solid electric instrument, the wood used does make a difference but its one very small part of a wide range of variables, and pretty much insignificant compared with the effect that wood choices have on the sound of an acoustic instrument.

And while there are luthiers who claim that the type of wood used is massively important to the sound of a solid instrument there are also those (like Carl Thompson) who say that's impossible to tell what this contribution is going to be until the instrument is finished, so you might as well just pick woods that look good and not worry about their "tone".

[EBS_freak]

Oh... and clay dots sound better.

[Cuzzie]

@acidbass see what you have done!

I’m going to set my wood outside in the first decent day for a while as I know South West sun makes a difference to the overall quality and effect on the bass

[fretmeister]

23 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

It's 4 different basses. Of course each one is going to sound slightly different. Whether it's down to the woods used or any of the other components, the differences in construction - remember that the neck with the maple board is made differently to those with rosewood, and do we know how many pieces of wood are used in each body? - or a combination of everything.

However once you drop that bass part into a band mix no-one is going to be able to tell the difference.

I think you might with that Swamp Ash and Maple one.

That one is very different to the others.

 

Whether anyone cares about the difference other than the player is a different kettle of whelks.

[Doctor J]

34 minutes ago, chris_b said:

In the context of a musical instrument, wood does have a sound. It absolutely does on an acoustic instrument so why should that feature of the material be absent on an electric instrument?

The way every part of a bass is made and the materials it is made from has the potential to affect the sound of the instrument. Some parts will have a large impact on the sound and others not so much. Some people can hear the differences and some can't.

I had several conversations with Pete at Wal about how they chose the wood for their basses and how the different woods would affect the end sound. I would believe the likes of Pete Stephens, Roger Sadowsky, Michael Tobias etc when they say that wood and construction will have an influence on the sound of a bass before the opinion of an accountant/postman [add profession here] who plays bass for a hobby. No sleight intended.

The Alembic perspective is interesting in that context

On a fretted Alembic instrument, the fingerboard wood is not a huge factor in the tone produced, since the notes are created when you touch the string to a fret. You are free to consider only practical or aesthetic ideals when selecting your fingerboard. If you are are ordering a fretless bass, then the fingerboard wood you choose will greatly affect the sound you make with your bass.

http://www.alembic.com/info/wood_fingerboards.html

[Cuzzie]

If we switch it around........metals/alloys electrics, pick up winding - do we assume that they are consistent?!

So we can either take the same pick up and bridge and strings across various different basses pop them in and see if there is any sonic difference.

Or take the same Make/manufacture of pick up and pop it in identically made basses with various different combinations of wood, body, neck etc. Get someone with super dog like hearing Then should they not sound same, or will there be a difference?

[fretmeister]

I hope we all agree that basses with scratchplates sound better than basses with pickguards.

[Doctor J]

My own take on it is that I can usually tell when I hear a Stingray on a recording. I can usually pick out Precisions and the bridge pickups of Jazz basses. Jazz bass neck pickup recordings can easily be confused with Ric 4000 or 4003, depending on the playing and settings. Same with single coil early 50's Precisions. I used to think The Holy Bible was a Ric until it was claimed that it was Bradfield on a Precision so I guess there are some sonic fingerprints common to both which get obscured in the context of a mix. Pickups make a huge difference, this much I am sure of.

I have never been able to tell what fretboard wood they have just by listening, though.

Even solo bass. Do I care about comparing isolation recordings and listening out for teeny tiny differences? No. I like bass in the context of a band playing a piece of music. Wood is organic. Every piece is different, even if they are of the same species. Does it make a difference? Yes, everything makes a difference, but my ears tell me it doesn't make enough of a difference for me to care signifigcantly about it. Therefore, I have learned not to get to caught up in it and pick what looks pretty.

FWIW, I can't tell the bridge saddle material just by hearing, nor nickel vs steel frets, either. I'm pretty sure I can't tell if you're playing a BBOT or a Badass just by listening, to my shame. I am told they make a difference, too.

[Doctor J]

26 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

If we switch it around........metals/alloys electrics, pick up winding - do we assume that they are consistent?!

So we can either take the same pick up and bridge and strings across various different basses pop them in and see if there is any sonic difference.

Or take the same Make/manufacture of pick up and pop it in identically made basses with various different combinations of wood, body, neck etc. Get someone with super dog like hearing Then should they not sound same, or will there be a difference?

Well, copper wire and pickup magnets are built to specific values with controlled tolerances so, yes, there is a level of verifiable consistency with them. DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan issue tonal charts as to what sonic properties you can expect from different pickup models. They are built to produce sound with a particular sonic footprint which the manufacturer will stand over since they're advertising the product as having these specific properties within a specified tolerance. There is no magic or guesswork to it.

[40hz]

I don't think body wood makes a difference. Or if it does, on an electric Instrument, it's totally overpowered by other factors to the point of being of distinguishable. I've never noticed any tonal similarities due to body wood in the 20 odd basses I've owned. Pickup type and placement is 99.9% of the sound of a solid body electric Instrument.

When it comes to neck wood/fingerboard material, I think the difference is there, but it is extremely slight, to the point of it being a non event.

Then again, graphite necks have a wildly different sound to anything, so there must be 'something' in having a differing material.

Edited July 30, 2020 by 40hz

[Bassfinger]

I think its guff as well, but many people believe in it.  Who is to say which is right?

[Cuzzie]

8 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

Well, copper wire and pickup magnets are built to specific values with controlled tolerances so, yes, there is a level of verifiable consistency with them. DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan issue tonal charts as to what sonic properties you can expect from different pickup models. They are built to produce sound with a particular sonic footprint which the manufacturer will stand over since they're advertising the product as having these specific properties within a specified tolerance. There is no magic or guesswork to it.

Indeed so if the aspect of wood made little or no difference, the same pick up Etc in various basses of the same style and construction Should also make no difference as that is the control.

If the same pick up, Wiring harness (unharmed) strings, bridge, tuning pegs, nut, player, amp, cab, room humidity  - whatever you want is transported across different basses and produces a different Sound - then it must be solid material related surely?

[Cuzzie]

10 minutes ago, 40hz said:

I don't think body wood makes a difference. Or if it does, on an electric Instrument, it's totally overpowered by other factors to the point of being of distinguishable. I've never noticed any tonal similarities due to body wood in the 20 odd basses I've owned. Pick type and placement is 99.9% of the sound of a solid body electric Instrument.

When it comes to neck wood/fingerboard material, I think the difference is there, but it is extremely slight, to the point of it being a non event.

Then again, graphite necks have a wildly different sound to anything, so there must be 'something' in having a differing material.

graphite is wildly different, done it on a bass - where nowt changed but the neck - big difference 

[chris_b]

49 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

The Alembic perspective is interesting in that context

I've also read that Alembic believe their sound comes from their pickups and electrics. That's OK. They will know their basses better than anyone else. It might be true with basses made from many laminates. It doesn't discount the point made in my post.

[Doctor J]

No, they say

If you are are ordering a fretless bass, then the fingerboard wood you choose will greatly affect the sound you make with your bass.

They say the differentiator is the frets.

[Doctor J]

20 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Indeed so if the aspect of wood made little or no difference, the same pick up Etc in various basses of the same style and construction Should also make no difference as that is the control.

If the same pick up, Wiring harness (unharmed) strings, bridge, tuning pegs, nut, player, amp, cab, room humidity  - whatever you want is transported across different basses and produces a different Sound - then it must be solid material related surely?

Let's turn it around again and say if you took the pickups and electronics out of a Stingray and replaced them with a P pickup with a passive volume and tone pot, what would it sound like?

Does a maple boarded Stingray sound like a Stingray? If so, does a rosewood boarded Stingray also sound like a Stingray?

[Cuzzie]

17 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

Let's turn it around again and say if you took the pickups and electronics out of a Stingray and replaced them with a P pickup with a passive volume and tone pot, what would it sound like?

Does a maple boarded Stingray sound like a Stingray? If so, does a rosewood boarded Stingray also sound like a Stingray?

So we all know that pick up placement, type of pick up and Pre-amp make a difference - no one argues that.

The original Stingray produced by Leo did have a P pick up in the position, but was changed to an MM.

So to answer your question - the passive P pick up in that position will sound more like a Fender Elite II without the pre-amp

The Ray Rosewood would sound like a Ray Rosewood and the Ray maple like a Ray maple, as per Sylivia’s excellent blog test results.

Popping a Seymour Duncan or Aggie MM with a Ray pre amp will sound different to the Ray, as it would with an OBP pre-amp.

what you are suggesting is fine, but is then comparing the sounds of different electronics using the bass material as the constant, what I suggested was keep electronics constant and change the wood as that was what was the question.

Both valid tho

[EBS_freak]

Meanwhile, the people who obsess about the details of their basses wonder why others can play them under the table. Hint - they were playing instead of obsessing about stuff that on the whole, doesn't really matter.