Vintage Fenders

[Sparky Mark]

19 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Mmm, any evidence for that?

No, but on the basis necks he worked on would've gone into the general stock pile, they would've been assembled on to the next bass in line. I don't think there's any evidence that a good neck alone makes a good bass.

[Beedster]

2 minutes ago, Sparky Mark said:

No, but on the basis necks he worked on would've gone into the general stock pile, they would've been assembled on to the next bass in line. 

Evidence?

[OliverBlackman]

26 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Evidence?

You surely don’t need evidence for Fender making parts and mixing them together. It was a production line for mass produced parts, certainly in the CBS era.

[Sparky Mark]

30 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Evidence?

Evidence of what please? From CBS ownership onwards, Fender ran a mass production line for all components including necks. Whoever finished the neck, there was no process that guaranteed the best necks were matched to the best of the other parts. There are good and bad examples from all eras, and I cannot believe basses with Sr Torres finished necks are significantly statistically better than others of the same period. Is there evidence of that I wonder?

[Beedster]

1 minute ago, OliverBlackman said:

You surely don’t need evidence for Fender making parts and mixing them together. It was a production line for mass produced parts, certainly in the CBS era.

i just wonder if before we say things like 'certainly' and 'surely' in a thread about vintage Fenders, we might want to provide more than opinion and what we've picked up in other threads? You're probably right, but on the other hand the four basses I've had with a Torres neck have also been four basses with really rather good heel/pocket fit, which let's face it, wasn't always a characteristic of 70's Fenders 👍

[Beedster]

Does anyone know why necks were identifiable to a specific maker but (apparently) not bodies? 

[OliverBlackman]

9 minutes ago, Beedster said:

i just wonder if before we say things like 'certainly' and 'surely' in a thread about vintage Fenders, we might want to provide more than opinion and what we've picked up in other threads? You're probably right, but on the other hand the four basses I've had with a Torres neck have also been four basses with really rather good heel/pocket fit, which let's face it, wasn't always a characteristic of 70's Fenders 👍

It wasn’t an opinion and if we had to back up every statement on here with evidence then it’d take an age to say anything.

 

Overwater make a bass in full which is why when I wanted a fretless jazz I went to them instead of Fender because I could guarantee the quality. 

[Sparky Mark]

3 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Does anyone know why necks were identifiable to a specific maker but (apparently) not bodies? 

There's no doubt that the neck is the most expensive component, trusted to higher skilled (ranked) workers. Bodies are pretty much just machined with minimal hand finishing.

 

 

[Beedster]

1 minute ago, OliverBlackman said:

It wasn’t an opinion and if we had to back up every statement on here with evidence then it’d take an age to say anything.

 

Overwater make a bass in full which is why when I wanted a fretless jazz I went to them instead of Fender because I could guarantee the quality. 

 

As I said, you're probably right, I was just wondering if there was the possibility of a more systematic process in play at Fender at the time, hence my question re necks versus bodies 👍 

[Beedster]

2 minutes ago, Sparky Mark said:

There's no doubt that the neck is the most expensive component, trusted to higher skilled (ranked) workers. Bodies are pretty much just machined with minimal hand finishing.

 

 

 

Was Torres a neck man only then? 

[Sparky Mark]

1 minute ago, Beedster said:

 

Was Torres a neck man only then? 

I believe so. It was the highest regarded skill on the line. 

[Sparky Mark]

This is a good book for Fender enthusiasts. The above photos come from it.

[Beedster]

10 hours ago, Sparky Mark said:

This is a good book for Fender enthusiasts. The above photos come from it.

 

Must dig out my old copy 

[Reggaebass]

10 hours ago, Sparky Mark said:

This is a good book for Fender enthusiasts. The above photos come from it.

That’s a great book, I’ve read it so many times from cover to cover and I still refer back to it now and again 

[snorkie635]

12 hours ago, OliverBlackman said:

It wasn’t an opinion and if we had to back up every statement on here with evidence then it’d take an age to say anything.

 

Overwater make a bass in full which is why when I wanted a fretless jazz I went to them instead of Fender because I could guarantee the quality. 

True enough, although I have experience of Overwaters with the usual 'dead spots' on their necks. ☹️

[Reggaebass]

I’ve had so many fenders , approx 50-60 and currently have 14 old and newer ones and not one has had any dead spots, perhaps I’ve just been lucky or is this something that the anti fender collective like putting out there 

[Misdee]

There is a school of thought that vintage Fenders were never intended to have neck pockets with a super- tight precision-engineered fit like a lot of  modern basses have nowadays. That's because at the time it wasn't consider a priority; that's a much more recent preoccupation.

 

Also, Fender thought that some space was necessary for the neck to be easily removed for truss rod adjustment and repair ect. They thought that if the neck pockets were too snug that the shoulders of the neck pocket would be prone to cracking or even breaking due to bumps in transit, expansion and contraction of the  wood and general wear and tear over the years.

 

As others have alluded to, at the time no one anticipated Fenders becoming holy relics with people agonizing over the fine details. They just wanted to make something that worked okay. They were pragmatic.

 

I've had boutique Fender- style basses that had neck pockets so tight that it was a struggle to detach the neck when all the bolts were removed. I've also experienced cracking in the paint finish on the sides of the neck pocket on one of those basses exactly because it had such a tight-fitting neck join, just like Fender sought to avoid, so maybe they had a point.

Edited October 31 by Misdee

[Sparky Mark]

I think you have been lucky. I've owned, and probably still do, several basses where a particular note on the G string fades much quicker than others; typically one between fret 5 and 9. It's never bothered me though.

[ezbass]

4 minutes ago, Misdee said:

There is a school of thought that vintage Fenders were never intended to have neck pockets with a super- tight precision-engineered fit like a lot of  modern basses have nowadays. That's because at the time it wasn't consider a priority; that's a much more recent preoccupation.

 

You could stick a very thick pick in the neck pocket gap of my old '63 P, still sounded awesome.

[Beedster]

23 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I’ve had so many fenders , approx 50-60 and currently have 14 old and newer ones and not one has had any dead spots, perhaps I’ve just been lucky or is this something that the anti fender collective like putting out there 

 

I know many will disagree, but I don't really buy the idea of the unplayable 70's Fender (unless of course the neck has bowed which happens to manufacturers other than Fender e.g., EBMM and Ric). I've played some in shops and at a seller's house that have played like dogs - bad setup, dodgy electrics, neck not on straight or badly shimmed - but while I often declined to buy them at the time, I'm not convinced any couldn't be recovered! I bought a maple neck '75 Precision unseen on eBay and when it arrived it was a disaster, neck like a suspension bridge, strings nowhere near poles, more dead spots than Margate in winter, but I got it playable with some work. OK, it was VERY heavy, but I've nevere been that worried about weight.  

[Misdee]

22 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I’ve had so many fenders , approx 50-60 and currently have 14 old and newer ones and not one has had any dead spots, perhaps I’ve just been lucky or is this something that the anti fender collective like putting out there 

The worst problem I ever had with dead spots was on a Status Graphite bass, which theoretically is immune to such problems.

 

With Fender basses I've never had deadspot a problem either, and I've had loads. Maybe with Fenders it's just part of the sound. If everything was even and consistent, it wouldn't sound like a Fender.

[Beedster]

3 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

I know many will disagree, but I don't really buy the idea of the unplayable 70's Fender (unless of course the neck has bowed which happens to manufacturers other than Fender e.g., EBMM and Ric). I've played some in shops and at a seller's house that have played like dogs - bad setup, dodgy electrics, neck not on straight or badly shimmed - but while I often declined to buy them at the time, I'm not convinced any couldn't be recovered! I bought a maple neck '75 Precision unseen on eBay and when it arrived it was a disaster, neck like a suspension bridge, strings nowhere near poles, more dead spots than Margate in winter, but I got it playable with some work. OK, it was VERY heavy, but I've never been that worried about weight.  

 

It wasn't a Torres by the way  

[Reggaebass]

3 minutes ago, Misdee said:

With Fender basses I've never had deadspot a problem either

Thanks Misdee, I was genuinely curious as it’s something that I’ve heard mentioned before but have never experienced myself 

[Sparky Mark]

3 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

I know many will disagree, but I don't really buy the idea of the unplayable 70's Fender (unless of course the neck has bowed which happens to manufacturers other than Fender e.g., EBMM and Ric). I've played some in shops and at a seller's house that have played like dogs - bad setup, dodgy electrics, neck not on straight or badly shimmed - but while I often declined to buy them at the time, I'm not convinced any couldn't be recovered! I bought a maple neck '75 Precision unseen on eBay and when it arrived it was a disaster, neck like a suspension bridge, strings nowhere near poles, more dead spots than Margate in winter, but I got it playable with some work. OK, it was VERY heavy, but I've nevere been that worried about weight.  

Totally agree. A proper set up to correct neck alignment, relief, intonation and string height will make practically any bass play really well. Obviously if there's a structural problem somewhere,  that's a different matter. 

[Sparky Mark]

41 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Thanks Misdee, I was genuinely curious as it’s something that I’ve heard mentioned before but have never experienced myself 

It's definitely a thing that I was never aware of until I looked for it. Some variation of sustain is almost guaranteed on most basses, but just isn't a problem for the majority of us. However if it is, apparently if you stick a small weight (such as a coin) to the headstock it will shift or even eliminate dead spots. I think there's a company that make proper weights for that purpose. I wonder whether those headstock clip tuners have a similar effect depending on whereabouts they're placed?

Edited October 12 by Sparky Mark