Vintage Fenders

[ead]

31 minutes ago, Chiliwailer said:

I’ve always heard it was approx 6 months, around early 66. They were going for that Gibson style deluxe look with the blocks and binding, and the Jazz was supposed to be the deluxe model. 
Happy to be corrected. 

That sounds about right.  I think there were a few 'transition' necks knocking about with combinations of dots and binding before the blocks and binding spec was settled in.

[Owen]

2 hours ago, ead said:

 Interesting that '66 is seen by the collectors/purists as the start of the decline into CBS cost-cutting and yet there seem to be happy bunnies on here. 

It is interesting that the definition of vintage is more fluid than it was say 25 years ago. In the olden days anything after 1965 was deemed to be uncool. I love my '66 but was gutted when I eventually realised that it was not a "proper" vintage Fender (Jan 5th so 5 days out). Now that I am older and fatter/wiser (one of those is correct) I am more than happy with it and would kind of miss that binding. The pre-CBS stuff I have played have mostly been very nice, but I can guaratnee that elements of that were because I wanted them to be. If we want something to be something then we will project onto that something whether that is a bass, a car, a significant other, a potential significant other or even a politician (don't get me started). And nowhere proves that better than the internet. The amount of kit I have bought with my eyes rather than my ears is insane.

Of course any Fenders from the 70s were just the uncoolest instruments on the planet. Then I bought a 73 neck and body and bodged up an instrument. It is exceptionally nice so there goes that definition as well. Quality control slipped in the 70s so I am sure there are basses which are not as nice, but the reality is if my 73 was the only bass I had I could be more than happy.

Collectors/Purists will "decide" what the market will stand and then it becomes a "truth". The things that were made when "we were young" but could not afford them will always be "the ones". I am more than happy with this because the time will come when I will shift my '66 and happily take the fat profit of whatever I get over the £400 I paid for it.

Do I love knackered old Fenders? Yep.

Do I think of buying a damaged Sei J5 and getting it resprayed in nitro and reliced? Yep.

[BigRedX]

21 minutes ago, owen said:

Of course any Fenders from the 70s were just the uncoolest instruments on the planet. Then I bought a 73 neck and body and bodged up an instrument. It is exceptionally nice so there goes that definition as well. Quality control slipped in the 70s so I am sure there are basses which are not as nice, but the reality is if my 73 was the only bass I had I could be more than happy.

In 1979 I spent most of my summer holidays helping out at my local musical instrument store which was in the process of shedding its old "Home Organ" image, and as part of that process had become main dealer for Fender, Ibanez and Aria Pro II guitars and basses. I can remember the afternoon when the Fender instruments arrived, as it was a massive anti-climax.

The predominant colours were stinky poo brown and a horrible semi-transparent white (which looked like a mistake with the spraying rather than a deliberate finish). All the 3-bolt necks were mis-aligned - some to the extent where one of the outer strings was no longer over the fingerboard at the top end of the neck and most of the others had some sort of QC problem. About the only person who was happy was the freelance guitar tech who was mentally counting up how much extra money he was going to make trying to get them into a saleable condition. 

Hung on the wall next to the instruments from Aria and Ibanez which had arrived the previous week (and were still in tune when they were removed from their boxes) the Fenders looked tired and lacklustre. If I'd been in charge, I'd have sent the lot back and told Fender to either send me some properly made instruments or give me my money back. 

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, owen said:

It is interesting that the definition of vintage is more fluid than it was say 25 years ago.

I’ve been amazed seeing the value and desirability of first early 70s and then late 70s Fender skyrocket over the last few years. 
 

[musicbassman]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

The predominant colours were stinky poo brown and a horrible semi-transparent white (which looked like a mistake with the spraying rather than a deliberate finish). All the 3-bolt necks were mis-aligned - some to the extent where one of the outer strings was no longer over the fingerboard at the top end of the neck and most of the others had some sort of QC problem.

I witnessed this QC problem for myself in 1977.

I was playing in the resident band at Harlow Mecca ( yes, this was just before 'resident bands' were consigned to the history books for Mecca venues)  The guitarist, who certainly had more money than sense, rather fancied playing a Telecaster. So, instead of buying something sensible, he appeared at the next gig waving a BRAND NEW Tele he'd picked up (or, rather, he'd been sold) from a music shop in Ilford.

Enthused by the substantial discount off the list price he'd been given he didn't seem to have considered what it played like, or even how well it had been banged together. It really was shameful - the neck was appallingly misaligned and was twisted also, and it had massive feedback problems for some reason right from the start. He tried to return it, but the shop had clearly written 'Sold as Seen' on the invoice and apparently didn't want to know..... 

[Cuzzie]

It’s a good point raised about what is Vintage

So @Reggaebass your thread, your rules - what is Vintage?

Is there a Super Vintage class and evening an über vintage?!

Do we use human years or dog years?!

Edited August 4, 2020 by Cuzzie

[BlueMoon]

24 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

It’s a good point raised about what is Vintage

Not sure it'll qualify, but here's my '71. An old friend!

 

[Reggaebass]

27 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

It’s a good point raised about what is Vintage

I’m not sure really, I didn’t realise vintage was certain years, I tend to think of the 60s and 70s fenders as vintage as that’s what they are mostly referred to when they are for sale, good question really, because my youngest son thinks I’m vintage 😄

[Reggaebass]

8 minutes ago, BlueMoon said:

Not sure it'll qualify, but here's my '71. An old friend!

 

Very nice BlueMoon 👍

[BigRedX]

46 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

It’s a good point raised about what is Vintage

So @Reggaebass your thread, your rules - what is Vintage?

Is there a Super Vintage class and evening an über vintage?!

Do we use human years or dog years?!

There isn't any strict definition for vintage, but generally speaking for collectable items it's anything that is more than 25 years old. That now includes plenty of 90s basses and guitars...

[kevin_lindsay]

My 74 Jazz Bass. 

This is the actual very first bass I ever played (it was owned by my friend Jimmy Davidson, who bought it second hand in 1974, after the original owner decided he wanted a P-Bass instead). I now own this bass. 

On the YouTube clip, you can see / hear Rob Harris (Jamiroquai) playing it. 

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by kevin_lindsay

[MM Stingray 62]

My 68 now a fretless 

 

[Geek99]

On 03/08/2020 at 15:15, GuyR said:

Here are a couple of mine, if we are on a CAR theme. Any excuse......

love the 66 btw.

 

What is the weedy looking one on the right? Short scale bass iv I hope 

[Geek99]

On 03/08/2020 at 20:52, GuyR said:

Just now, ped said:

I'll refrain from posting an image of its sister "Telecaster" variant,...

Please do ...

[Cuzzie]

59 minutes ago, marleaux62 said:

My 68 now a fretless 

 

Now that that is the nuts

[Belka]

On 04/08/2020 at 08:22, Old Man Riva said:

For some bizarre reason, in terms of playing/trying vintage basses, the 1966 dot and bound Fenders are the ones I think I’ve played the most of. Any one I’ve ever played/tried has been a fabulous instrument - really consistent in their build and overall quality. I also love the look of the dot and bound necks and lollipop tuners.

So odd that they were only produced for such a short period of time - only serving to add to the Fender myth and legend!! 

I may be wrong but I think that Fender produced a relatively large amount of basses in 1966, which probably accounts for the large sample size of those you see. There are practically no 1967 and relatively fewer 1968 Fenders around; 1969 is when you start seeing larger numbers of instruments with the TV logos showing up, so I'd guess a lot of 1966 serial numbered stock was probably assembled/sold in the subsequent two years.  

I think the same thing happened in 1978. You hardly see any basses with '79, '80, '81 or '82 serial numbers, but there are loads of 'S8' basses around, with later neck pocket stamps/pot codes etc.

[Pukie]

On 04/08/2020 at 12:14, BigRedX said:

The predominant colours were stinky poo brown and a horrible semi-transparent white (which looked like a mistake with the spraying rather than a deliberate finish).

Funnily enough that’s exactly the choice I had back in ‘77.

Nothing wrong with the White, I loved it,  I had never seen another like it at the time, ...and it yellows with age..... still “beauty is in the eye of the cheque book holder” , as we used to say  back then...probably.

[Belka]

On 04/08/2020 at 13:24, LukeFRC said:

I’ve been amazed seeing the value and desirability of first early 70s and then late 70s Fender skyrocket over the last few years. 
 

i know what you mean; you used to see them for not much money at all back in the '90s when I started playing. I would add a couple of caveats though. Firstly, I don't think they were ever as bad as some say they were. Some exhibited poor routing/assembly but the vast majority didn't. Also, there is nothing inherently wrong with the three bolt neck construction or bullet truss rods, and yes, they were heavy, but a lot of things were back then. 

I would also say that '70s Jazz basses, and to a lesser extent the Precisions, have a very different sound to the '60s ones. If you want to get the Marcus Miller tone you have to forget about anything made prior to 1972, which could also be a factor in their increasing value. Of course, I'm sure that nostalgia and the fact they are now old are also reasons why they're going up in price, but the same would be true for the pre-CBS instruments as well.  

 

[BigRedX]

3 minutes ago, Belka said:

Also, there is nothing inherently wrong with the three bolt neck construction...

Except for the fact that Fender had neither the manufacturing tolerances or the quality control required to make them properly back in 1970s.

[Bassfinger]

8 hours ago, marleaux62 said:

My 68 now a fretless 

 

Judging from the state of that (rather lovely) bass, I would suggest that the fluffy, cossetting case is a bit superfluous.

[thodrik]

1 hour ago, Belka said:

I may be wrong but I think that Fender produced a relatively large amount of basses in 1966, which probably accounts for the large sample size of those you see. There are practically no 1967 and relatively fewer 1968 Fenders around; 1969 is when you start seeing larger numbers of instruments with the TV logos showing up, so I'd guess a lot of 1966 serial numbered stock was probably assembled/sold in the subsequent two years.  

I think the same thing happened in 1978. You hardly see any basses with '79, '80, '81 or '82 serial numbers, but there are loads of 'S8' basses around, with later neck pocket stamps/pot codes etc.

Yes, I have an S9 Precision, which could have been made/thrown together with random parts found on the factory floor at any point between late 1978 and 1980. 

I decided long ago that there was no point trying to narrow down the exact date when it was made, as I am never going to sell it and it is never going to be particularly valuable irrespective of the actual date it was made.

[Geek99]

5 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Except for the fact that Fender had neither the manufacturing tolerances or the quality control required to make them properly back in 1970s.

Yes, the jigs were wearing out, I heard 

[bassbiscuits]

5 hours ago, Belka said:

I may be wrong but I think that Fender produced a relatively large amount of basses in 1966, which probably accounts for the large sample size of those you see. There are practically no 1967 and relatively fewer 1968 Fenders around; 1969 is when you start seeing larger numbers of instruments with the TV logos showing up, so I'd guess a lot of 1966 serial numbered stock was probably assembled/sold in the subsequent two years.  

I think the same thing happened in 1978. You hardly see any basses with '79, '80, '81 or '82 serial numbers, but there are loads of 'S8' basses around, with later neck pocket stamps/pot codes etc.

Good point. My precision is essentially a 1970, but the pots are dated 1966, the neck dated 1968, the pickups dated 1970 and the serial number anywhere between 1968-1970.

Ive owned it for donkeys years, so I’m pretty sure it started out that way rather than being a bitsa - just a case of Fender using what was available at the time. 

[Woodinblack]

On 03/08/2020 at 20:58, GuyR said:

Does this readmit me?

If you have to have a 6 string, fender do actually do a 6 string Jazz bass!

https://reverb.com/uk/item/2274150-fender-steve-bailey-signature-6-string-bass

 

[Reggaebass]

On 04/08/2020 at 18:32, kevin_lindsay said:

My 74 Jazz Bass. 

This is the actual very first bass I ever played (it was owned by my friend Jimmy Davidson, who bought it second hand in 1974, after the original owner decided he wanted a P-Bass instead). I now own this bass. 

On the YouTube clip, you can see / hear Rob Harris (Jamiroquai) playing it. 

 

Very nice Kevin, and a great bit of history 👍