Vintage Fenders

[ossyrocks]

13 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

NKR had a similar bass at half that price. Market gone mad.

Bass players have always been a little more conservative than guitarists in their tastes, and the depth of their wallet. But there is no doubt that guitar prices have been going up a lot lately, and the prices of basses follow on behind.

 

Check out this guitar at ATB for comparison. ‘62 Fiesta red strat, in many ways comparable with the ‘61 P above.

 

https://www.atbguitars.com/1962-fender-stratocaster-fiesta-red-ohsc-2

 

Rob

[wateroftyne]

3 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

Candy just seems to be a photo of an old band. It’s great and highly evocative, but hardly justifies the premium. 
 

I’m sure it’s a wonderful guitar but the prices are getting absolutely bonkers. 

At this level, along with the known history, I think it does (assuming there’s plenty of wiggle-room on the asking price).

[ped]

I'd definitely want the original case for 20k

[Burns-bass]

Just now, wateroftyne said:

At this level, along with the known history, I think it does (assuming there’s plenty of wiggle-room on the asking price).

Andy seems a straight up guy, so you’re definitely right. 
 

I guess these are now so far removed from being instruments that will ever get played, it’ll just became a talking point for rich people. Seems sad really…

 

 

[Reggaebass]

2 minutes ago, ped said:

I'd definitely want the original case for 20k

Yeah I was thinking the same, it’s a shame that it’s been lost along the way , the complete package would be quite a piece of history 

[Burns-bass]

9 minutes ago, ossyrocks said:

Bass players have always been a little more conservative than guitarists in their tastes, and the depth of their wallet. But there is no doubt that guitar prices have been going up a lot lately, and the prices of basses follow on behind.

 

Check out this guitar at ATB for comparison. ‘62 Fiesta red strat, in many ways comparable with the ‘61 P above.

 

https://www.atbguitars.com/1962-fender-stratocaster-fiesta-red-ohsc-2

 

Rob

I saw that. Bought from his daughter in Newcastle. Is it that one?

 

It’s fascinating that the story seems as important as the item. That tells you something about the market (and the people buying them).

[Muzz]

I had a late-70s Jazz come into my possession a while back, I sold it for a daft amount of money (or so I thought at the time; it'd be three times that now), but it was a dreadful instrument; it weighed a ton (over 11lbs), played like a dead lump and sounded like it, too.  But it was in very very good condition, had the original ashtrays, case and candy, etc...that one I can only hope is hanging on a wall somewhere as a conversation piece, otherwise someone's getting a bad back and a terrible sound just on principle...

Edited April 21, 2023 by Muzz

[Burns-bass]

I should say, I’m not trying to be wilfully antagonistic and rude about vintage basses. I have owned lots (including pre cbs ones, custom coloured ones, good ones and bad ones). 
 

Im sure I sound like an old man angry that a Mars bar now costs 69p instead of the 18p it costs in 1988.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Burns-bass

[wateroftyne]

2 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

I saw that. Bought from his daughter in Newcastle. Is it that one?

 

It’s fascinating that the story seems as important as the item. That tells you something about the market (and the people buying them).

 

Of course the story is important. For romantic reasons and because you know what you’re getting. 
 

The alternative is to pay less for something with a sketchy history, which of course is the more common route.

 

As for the price, this is a 61 - not a 62 or 63. There really can’t be many of these in the UK.

 

Regarding the case, I seem to recall that imports didn’t come with one, and Arbiter provided their own? Might well be wrong on that, mind.

[Reggaebass]

Even at a 20k price I’d still play it the same as I do every other bass, I’m not really one to just look at it, the only difference might be that it would go back in its case after for safer keeping 

[mowf]

25 minutes ago, ossyrocks said:

Bass players have always been a little more conservative than guitarists in their tastes, and the depth of their wallet. But there is no doubt that guitar prices have been going up a lot lately, and the prices of basses follow on behind.

 

Check out this guitar at ATB for comparison. ‘62 Fiesta red strat, in many ways comparable with the ‘61 P above.

 

https://www.atbguitars.com/1962-fender-stratocaster-fiesta-red-ohsc-2

 

Rob

Speaking as someone with a weakness for vintage basses, all I can say is thank God I'm not a guitarist if that's how much they cost.

[ped]

7 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

 

Of course the story is important. For romantic reasons and because you know what you’re getting. 
 

The alternative is to pay less for something with a sketchy history, which of course is the more common route.

 

As for the price, this is a 61 - not a 62 or 63. There really can’t be many of these in the UK.

 

Regarding the case, I seem to recall that imports didn’t come with one, and Arbiter provided their own? Might well be wrong on that, mind.

 

Ah yes you might be right about the case. Still, I wonder where the case that it was given has gone? 

 

RE the story of a bass.. it's really nice to know the provenance, and I also really like it when a piece of gear has a nice story or super happy buying experience around it, such as a really friendly seller or a good vibe in general (as opposed to a rude seller, initial problems and bad juju) but I don't think i'd pay extra for it as long as the bass plays well. Most important for me are original finish and yes I really like the original case!

[Burns-bass]

8 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

 

Of course the story is important. For romantic reasons and because you know what you’re getting. 
 

The alternative is to pay less for something with a sketchy history, which of course is the more common route.

 

As for the price, this is a 61 - not a 62 or 63. There really can’t be many of these in the UK.

 

Regarding the case, I seem to recall that imports didn’t come with one, and Arbiter provided their own? Might well be wrong on that, mind.

Yeah I get that.

 

Perhaps I’ve inhaled enough of the musky smell from old cases not to become intoxicated by it. 
 

As an instrument, I can’t see it justifies the premium.
 

As an investment, it’s too illiquid in a fragile market that is (let’s be honest) dominated by men of a certain age.

 

I think your 1971 bass, for example, is the perfect spot. Reasonably priced, great story, 100% genuine, and it’s out playing music a few days after you bought it. 
 

But if someone here buys it, I’d happily pay £50 for an hour!

[ossyrocks]

I’ve been into vintage gear since the early 90’s. The general direction of prices from then until now has been one of outperforming what you can get at the bank, by quite a long way. However, there have been major bumps along the way. A big bubble built up before 2008, when for instance early 60’s Gibson 335’s got to over £30k. Then the crash hit. A couple of years later I was at a show looking at a ‘62 335 in nice original condition priced at £12k. There were a lot of dealers and collectors stuck with stock that was probably worth half what they had in it. Since then, prices have recovered, but it’s taken a long time. If you could hold on to your instrument/investment and were not in in need of the cash, then in the end you broke even or better. But all those with cash flow problems took a very deep bath.

 

The last two years have seen an acceleration in prices I haven’t seen since the late 2000’s, and I can’t help thinking it might happen again. For instance, last February (2022), I bought a nice all original, lightweight ‘73 Precison from ATB for £2600. What would that guitar be now, even from the same dealer, only just over 12 months later? 
 

I’m still looking at vintage instruments, and still buying the odd one, but I’m being really cautious. I think the 70’s is where to look now, and have the most potential, but also it’s less of a risk as they are just so much cheaper than 60’s guitars, and if the worst happens, then the hit will be smaller. Does that make sense? 
 

Rob

[Owen]

We project what we want onto whatever we are lusting after at the time. Twas ever thus. 

[Reggaebass]

I like a good story of a bass , apparently my 71 is one owner from new and really well played, this is on the neck and his name is written on the left inside the neck pocket, I’ve tried to find out some info but can’t find anything 

[Owen]

1 minute ago, Owen said:

We project what we want onto whatever we are lusting after at the time. Twas ever thus. 

And I am as guilty as anyone. 

[ossyrocks]

5 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I like a good story of a bass , apparently my 71 is one owner from new and really well played, this is on the neck and his name is written on the left inside the neck pocket, I’ve tried to find out some info but can’t find anything 

Tony, that’s four miles from where I live! I could be there in 10 minutes. Do you want me to go and knock on the door? 😂

[Reggaebass]

Just now, ossyrocks said:

Tony, that’s four miles from where I live! I could be there in 10 minutes. Do you want me to go and knock on the door? 😂

Really, he might not live there anymore 😁

[ossyrocks]

3 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Really, he might not live there anymore 😁

No harm in knocking, he might still be there.

 

I bought some vinyl on Lancaster market a few weeks ago, and whilst cleaning them, I found an old postcard posted from the USSR in the early 70’s to an address nearby. It was quite a tale, of drunkenness, vodka, and Russian girls. So I posted on local Facebook groups asking about the address and who it was posted to, as it would be nice to return it. Lo and behold, they still lived at the same address, and I delivered it again, 50 years later. They were chuffed to bits.

[vincbt]

12 hours ago, Clarky said:

Cripes. All original '61 Precision in Fiesta red. A cool £20k but nevertheless ... wow!

 

https://www.andybaxterbass.com/products/1961-fender-precision-bass-fiesta-red

 

Looks like it's been sold... 😳

[mowf]

1 hour ago, vincbt said:

 

Looks like it's been sold... 😳

Crikey that was quick. Now Andy's simultaneously laughing all the way to the bank and kicking himself for not asking for £25k.

[nilorius]

2 hours ago, vincbt said:

 

Looks like it's been sold... 😳

F20k. for what ??? For 61. P. Never !

[GuyR]

Provenance is very important in my opinion, not for reasons of a romantic story- If it can be demonstrated that the 61 custom colour fender you are interested in has been in the same ownership for north of about 30 years, then the chance of being caught out with a fake is much reduced.
It would have been harder to produce an accurate fake pre internet and the lower values would have made it far less worthwhile to bother. Of course, you still have to be super careful irrespective of the back story.

The provenance with Andy Baxter’s Precision is as good as you could reasonably hope for and the price is demonstrably correct.

[Woodinblack]

55 minutes ago, GuyR said:

Provenance is very important in my opinion, not for reasons of a romantic story- If it can be demonstrated that the 61 custom colour fender you are interested in has been in the same ownership for north of about 30 years, then the chance of being caught out with a fake is much reduced.

 

But it doesn't- it just shows that someone in the 60s was in a group with a non white bass that was probably red. It doesn't in any way indicate that it was this one, as they kind of all look the same.