Vintage Fenders

[ossyrocks]

1 minute ago, Woodinblack said:

 

But it doesn't- it just shows that someone in the 60s was in a group with a non white bass that was probably red. It doesn't in any way indicate that it was this one, as they kind of all look the same.

 

I know exactly what you're saying, it's a question of risk, and minimisation thereof. That one was about as minimum risk as you're likely to find with a custom colour vintage Fender.

 

I personally would not buy one, unless I had a tale/story/background like the one above. I know for a fact that Musicground have sold 100's if not 1000's of fake custom colour vintage Fenders over the years, many of them weren't just refins of genuine guitars, they weren't even Fender bodies or necks in a lot of cases. They did the same with amps. The water is very murky indeed.

 

Rob

[wateroftyne]

6 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

But it doesn't- it just shows that someone in the 60s was in a group with a non white bass that was probably red. It doesn't in any way indicate that it was this one, as they kind of all look the same.

‘…much reduced.’

[Woodinblack]

14 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

‘…much reduced.’

 

Slightly reduced, I could whip up the provenance for that in a few minutes and the internet. At most it is an public interest story made to make you feel better about paying that much.

[wateroftyne]

Just now, Woodinblack said:

 

Slightly reduced, I could whip up the provenance for that in a few minutes and the internet. At most it is an public interest story made to make you feel better about paying that much.

I dunno. We’re talking a lot of money here, so if you’re going to fake it your story had better be watertight. Presumably the guy was fairly well known around that circuit, and people could vouch for the bass… or flag it if it’s fishy.

[Woodinblack]

17 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

Presumably the guy was fairly well known around that circuit, and people could vouch for the bass… or flag it if it’s fishy.

 

You have a vintage fender - could the people who know you in your circuit verify which bass was yours?

[wateroftyne]

Just now, Woodinblack said:

 

You have a vintage fender - could the people who know you in your circuit verify which bass was yours?

 

100%. And the good folk of Basschat could up it to 200%.

[Woodinblack]

Honestly the money that those basses  (and more so guitars) are going for now, and the ease of faking these things, I wouldn't be surprised if the old saying about Gibson '58 les pauls starts to get true for other things - "Time has passed so far since then that only 1000 of the original 428 '58 les pauls are still in circulation"

[wateroftyne]

1 minute ago, Woodinblack said:

Honestly the money that those basses  (and more so guitars) are going for now, and the ease of faking these things, I wouldn't be surprised if the old saying about Gibson '58 les pauls starts to get true for other things - "Time has passed so far since then that only 1000 of the original 428 '58 les pauls are still in circulation"

 

I really don't think Andy Baxter would stake his reputation on something like this if he wasn't 100% certain of its provenance. Do you?

[Woodinblack]

3 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

I really don't think Andy Baxter would stake his reputation on something like this if he wasn't 100% certain of its provenance. Do you?

 

I don't believe he would, if he knew. But I believe it is very possible to make an authentic fake of these instruments without too much trouble. Compared to other fakable things, a solid body electric guitar / bass seems pretty simple.

[wateroftyne]

13 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I don't believe he would, if he knew. But I believe it is very possible to make an authentic fake of these instruments without too much trouble. Compared to other fakable things, a solid body electric guitar / bass seems pretty simple.

The story around it is harder to fake, though.

[MM Stingray 62]

41 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

The story around it is harder to fake, though.

I have some Bravewood p basses and IMO they are up there with the best fakes. My friend had an original 62 p bass. As good as the Bravewood’s are when I played the original there was no comparison.

[wateroftyne]

40 minutes ago, MM Stingray 62 said:

I have some Bravewood p basses and IMO they are up there with the best fakes. My friend had an original 62 p bass. As good as the Bravewood’s are when I played the original there was no comparison.

Do the edges of Bravewoods still look like they’ve been nibbled by hamsters? 

[Stub Mandrel]

3 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

The story around it is harder to fake, though.

Steve Jones reckons he has sold his original Les Paul multiple times...

[Waddo Soqable]

20 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Steve Jones reckons he has sold his original Les Paul multiple times...

He nicked it in the first place... 😁

[nilorius]

4 minutes ago, Waddo Soqable said:

He nicked it in the first place... 😁

He SOLD it multiple........

[onehandclapping]

My friend bought it,I thought it underpriced,I think it’s a fantastic buy/ bass…..find another for sale 

[onehandclapping]

12 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

 

Of course the story is important. For romantic reasons and because you know what you’re getting. 
 

The alternative is to pay less for something with a sketchy history, which of course is the more common route.

 

As for the price, this is a 61 - not a 62 or 63. There really can’t be many of these in the UK.

 

Regarding the case, I seem to recall that imports didn’t come with one, and Arbiter provided their own? Might well be wrong on that, mind.

It seems this was a private import not through a UK wholesaler

[nilorius]

11 minutes ago, onehandclapping said:

It seems this was a private import not through a UK wholesaler

Seems so

[jimmyb625]

7 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

Do the edges of Bravewoods still look like they’ve been nibbled by hamsters? 

Are they vintage hamsters?

[mowf]

6 hours ago, jimmyb625 said:

Are they vintage hamsters?

More importantly, what provenance do they have?

[Burns-bass]

10 hours ago, onehandclapping said:

My friend bought it,I thought it underpriced,I think it’s a fantastic buy/ bass…..find another for sale 

Did he buy it after playing it? (Genuine question)

[rodney72a]

On 20/04/2023 at 22:03, Clarky said:

Cripes. All original '61 Precision in Fiesta red. A cool £20k but nevertheless ... wow!

 

https://www.andybaxterbass.com/products/1961-fender-precision-bass-fiesta-red

 

What I find intriguing is this bit of the description:

 

"Chris says his mum and dad would repeatedly tell the story of how Colin ordered this bass directly from the USA and collected it at the airport on arrival."

 

What would the logistics of any such order in those days have been like?

[Belka]

On 21/04/2023 at 15:28, Woodinblack said:

Honestly the money that those basses  (and more so guitars) are going for now, and the ease of faking these things, I wouldn't be surprised if the old saying about Gibson '58 les pauls starts to get true for other things - "Time has passed so far since then that only 1000 of the original 428 '58 les pauls are still in circulation"

I don't know about Les Pauls but I actually think vintage Fenders would be pretty difficult to fake to the extent you would fool an expert. Firstly the tuners - you can not buy any Fender tuners these days that look like the vintage ones made up to 1976 - all of the repros they make all just look slightly different. Next, the necks - it's practically impossible to source a 7.5 radius neck with a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard - either with a slab or veneer fretboard (the veneer would be even more difficult). Finally, tortoiseshell pickguards - Spitfire come close, but there's nothing like the real thing. Early sunbursts also look a lot different to what you get now - I guess custom colours with white/mint pickguards would actually be a lot easier to fake. 

I can see the attraction for a skilled faker of doing a late '50s Les Paul when asking prices are around half a million, but the bother of making a dead on repro of a Fender bass to sell for around 10-20,000 hardly seems worth it, especially if they're going to build their own neck from Brazilian rosewood, age it, pay a machine shop to make the tuners look right, etc. 

The real issue is probably passing off refinished basses as original custom colours - it would be a lot more difficult to establish how genuine those really are. The same with Les Pauls probably - I would imagine most of the fake '50s burst Les Pauls are earlier goldtops with the P90s swapped out for humbuckers and refinished rather than reproductions built from the ground up. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Belka

[msb]

There are fake Epiphones going around. It’s not just high end vintage that’s being copied these days.

[ped]

4 hours ago, rodney72a said:

 

What I find intriguing is this bit of the description:

 

"Chris says his mum and dad would repeatedly tell the story of how Colin ordered this bass directly from the USA and collected it at the airport on arrival."

 

What would the logistics of any such order in those days have been like?

Probably easier than now. A few letters back and forth, an cheque and done. And I bet you could drive up to the plane on the runway to collect it!