Which amp next?

[Andy Vincent]

Hi folks!

I have a dilemma. I used the have great bass tone,  every time I fired up the stack and played a few notes it brought a smile to my face. Now I've kind of lost my way and I struggle to get a sound that inspires me. Amps that sounded great for me in the past were Trace Elliot, SWR etc. 

Personal reasons led me down the class D / light weight route and I kind of fell into the pursuit of pure sound as opposed to a coloured tone ... Which I am now questioning.

My first class D was a Genz Benz streamliner 900 which has massive power, but I really struggled with the EQ / tone section ....I struggled find musical tones, and the valve input gain just seemed too distorted, too loose. Now I have a Bergantino Forte, which is great, and the EQ is more musical, but I'm not getting 'THAT SOUND' ....it's so difficult to describe ... 

I am looking for that 'bite' on the input stage, some growl but not scrappy distortion ... I want some aggressive grit without the baggy-ness, followed by the ability to add some warmth and high mids and a whole load of power.

Is that too much to ask ? 🤔

Any suggestions most welcome ... What amps are other people running? Valve front ends? Full solid state? 

 

Thanks ..... 

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Andy Vincent

[Nebadon2000]

Without finding vintage Swr or Trace amps in great condition. Maybe Mesa Walkabout, everybody loves Mesa's new class D stuff WD-800, TT-800. D-800+.

But just a gut feeling may want to listen to  Ashdown ABM-1200-EVO IV.

I hear you; I used SWR, Trace,and Ampeg SVT with 4,6 or 8x10's back in my prime GREAT STUFF. Then in 2008 I got a Taurus Preamp pedal and Roland D-BASS 115 Active powered Cabinet only 50lbs now in my mid 60's I use a Markbass CMD 121P COMBO 30LBS😀 

[Happy Jack]

I use a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 with a valve-driven pre-amp stage.

Reckon that might tick the boxes you describe.

 

[Cuzzie]

Andy - I have some stuff which may or may not fit the bill both amp and preamp - I’ll drop you a line and you can test it.

Hope you are well

Edited August 3, 2020 by Cuzzie

[Cuzzie]

Drive sound is very very subjective as well - could be that you go for a relatively clean amp with enough power like a Peavey mini or mega or a Quilter bass block and pop a drive type pedal of your choice in front of it. If you are happy with your clean and it’s EQ then it’s easy to change around.

Also look at the Genzler Magellan 800 - very nice musical drive channel.

Remember the TE is hopefully the SW Bass bash in October which may give chance to play some stuff.

Most importantly - Andy - I have heard you play, you’re a good player with a good tone-careful it’s not just lockdown jitters making things all squiffy - it could just be a little tweak is all that’s needed as opposed to wholesale changes

[Mudpup]

41 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

I use a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 with a valve-driven pre-amp stage.

Reckon that might tick the boxes you describe.

 

He's been there already.... 

[Happy Jack]

3 minutes ago, Mudpup said:

He's been there already.... 

Damn! You mean I should have read his post before replying? Well that's just not the Basschat way ...

 

[Mudpup]

Ashdown ABM600 for the win. Don't use the scoopy thing or compressor on it though. Massive power and really versatile - it'll do clean and bell like clarity or grit if you want it. 

I've had both the Mesa D800 and the Magellan 800 and they didn't work for me. Both a bit too soft sounding for my taste. 

[Mudpup]

2 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Damn! You mean I should have read his post before replying? Well that's just not the Basschat way ...

 

I must admit it takes half the fun out if it... 😂

[Lozz196]

2 hours ago, Mudpup said:

Ashdown ABM600 for the win. Don't use the scoopy thing or compressor on it though. Massive power and really versatile - it'll do clean and bell like clarity or grit if you want it. 

Def. And there’s currently one up for grabs on here too.

[T-Bay]

Orange terror, I have trace heads as well but love the orange warmth and growl (and the fact it doesn’t kill you to carry it). I have an original 1000w version but have heard the latest incarnation and they sound great too.

[Andy Vincent]

10 hours ago, Mudpup said:

Ashdown ABM600 for the win. Don't use the scoopy thing or compressor on it though. Massive power and really versatile - it'll do clean and bell like clarity or grit if you want it. 

I've had both the Mesa D800 and the Magellan 800 and they didn't work for me. Both a bit too soft sounding for my taste. 

Thanks, I've been looking at the ABMs and wondering .... And I've heard very good things about them .... Will have to try one

[Lozz196]

Just now, Andy Vincent said:

Thanks, I've been looking at the ABMs and wondering .... And I've heard very good things about them .... Will have to try one

Def worth it, the ABM600 is the best amp I’ve ever had, incredibly versatile and a really powerful sound. Plus based in the UK so in the unlikely case of any issues easy to get sorted, and for a TE fan such as yourself Mark Gooday who runs Ashdown was at TE.

[Andy Vincent]

7 hours ago, T-Bay said:

Orange terror, I have trace heads as well but love the orange warmth and growl (and the fact it doesn’t kill you to carry it). I have an original 1000w version but have heard the latest incarnation and they sound great too.

I played a festival last year and used their backline which was an orange head and 4x10 and it sounded monstrous. I think it was the more expensive amp head but can't be sure ... I need to have another play and see how it sounds.

[Andy Vincent]

11 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

Drive sound is very very subjective as well - could be that you go for a relatively clean amp with enough power like a Peavey mini or mega or a Quilter bass block and pop a drive type pedal of your choice in front of it. If you are happy with your clean and it’s EQ then it’s easy to change around.

Also look at the Genzler Magellan 800 - very nice musical drive channel.

Remember the TE is hopefully the SW Bass bash in October which may give chance to play some stuff.

Most importantly - Andy - I have heard you play, you’re a good player with a good tone-careful it’s not just lockdown jitters making things all squiffy - it could just be a little tweak is all that’s needed as opposed to wholesale changes

Hi again, thanks for this and the PM ... Lots to think about .... 

[uk_lefty]

Just to add to it all... 

Fender's amp modelling does a lovely SWR sound for a very clean bass tone. I had their old Mustang 40 bass amp and the amp modelling was really pleasing, as was their Bassman model for warmth. I think they've got a new 800 watt modelling head out at the mo? Could be worth a go. 

My gig rig is Ashdown and I use an old Boss GT10B pedal for other amp modelling if I want it. If you want to go from ultra clean to valve warmth then I think some kind of modelling either built in to an amp or via a pedal would be the way to go. 

[Dan Dare]

There's no alternative if you want to find THAT SOUND other than heading for a well -stocked shop, spending some time running through the alternatives and being willing to spend what it takes. We're all different and acting on any of our preferences could set you on that endless, long and rocky road of buying and moving stuff on. That way madness lies. Better to get it right from the outset.

I spent several hours at Bass Direct a few years back (do it on a weekday when they're not busy and you can take your time) and have not felt the need to upgrade since. No doubt I will one day or if something breaks, but for now, I no longer have the urge to look for new toys.

Have a look at the amount of stuff in the Market Place that's described as 'home use only', 'still in the box', etc, etc. I'd wager it's practically all been bought by people who thought it would be the key to nirvana (I'm not referring to older or inexpensive kit, but to the current, pro level stuff) when they got it. 

[Andy Vincent]

@Dan Dare this is sound advice, thank you. However, my problems started when I went to a well stocked shop (Bass Direct) and spent some time and spent a small fortune on pro level gear that sounded great in the shop 🙂. Up until that point I had always bought 2nd hand stuff, home made stuff etc. then I got to a point where I could afford to buy some decent gear and went for it. The gear I bought was excellent... I bought into the whole class D amp thing / hi-fi sound etc which is great for portability and clarity of sound,  but it's taken me until now to admit to myself that i'd lost 'my' sound.

So here we are 5 years on .... and I think I'm going to go and try some old school / 2nd hand amps again 🙂

[Dan Dare]

1 hour ago, Andy Vincent said:

@Dan Dare this is sound advice, thank you. However, my problems started when I went to a well stocked shop (Bass Direct) and spent some time and spent a small fortune on pro level gear that sounded great in the shop 🙂. Up until that point I had always bought 2nd hand stuff, home made stuff etc. then I got to a point where I could afford to buy some decent gear and went for it. The gear I bought was excellent... I bought into the whole class D amp thing / hi-fi sound etc which is great for portability and clarity of sound,  but it's taken me until now to admit to myself that i'd lost 'my' sound.

So here we are 5 years on .... and I think I'm going to go and try some old school / 2nd hand amps again 🙂

Know what you mean. I loved my old Bassman and Trace heads and Ampeg cabs and, whilst what I have now is light, powerful and clean as a whistle (like you, I've gone class D/hi-fi), it doesn't seem to quite have the effortless quality of the old rig. I may be viewing the past through rose tinted spec's, of course...

Decent used Trace heads do turn up quite regularly on eBay, etc, so that could be one option. Ashdown has to be worth looking at as a more modern, easily obtainable alternative and of course, Mark Gooday ran Trace before starting Ashdown, so there's a connection and similarity of approach. They're also excellent with backup/repairs.

I'd look for a decent used Ashdown head and try it with your cabs as a starter. If it doesn't work out, you can always sell it on. I've often wondered about doing the same, although I've gone over completely to the dark side and use PJB cabs, so maybe even that wouldn't work. I did pick up a massive old Ashdown 1x15 cab last year with a blown driver, which I replaced and it sounded fat and warm and very nice. However, it was a nightmare getting it up the narrow stairs to my first and second floor flat, so I moved it on.

So much gear, so little time.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Dan Dare

[Cuzzie]

I think the way I approached it (apart from what does my fave bassist use) is first power section.

True RMS is watt is required.

Class A, A-B, Hybrid, Class D.

Which power module ICE vs Hypex.

EQ - Tone stack, Baxendall, Para/Semi-para, mid frequency selector for specific frequencies or a sweep.

Drive channel or no drive channel associated.

Reliability and ease of technical assistance Or repair.

Then there are other bits like where is the DI placed in the chain, Is it affected by volume and minor stuff like headphones, aux in.

Available cash and Value as well

Once them is sorted that will narrow down a massive field for you and will help make it easier knowing what to go for

[Al Krow]

If they could bottle my Mesa M6 in a D class package, I'd happily snap it up! If you get chance to A/B one against an Ashdown that could definitely be worth doing. 

The other thought would be stick with your excellent Berg Forte and warm it up with a pre amp pedal that delivers the zing you're missing? There are some great preamps out there. 

[Lozz196]

2 hours ago, Andy Vincent said:

@Dan Dare this is sound advice, thank you. However, my problems started when I went to a well stocked shop (Bass Direct) and spent some time and spent a small fortune on pro level gear that sounded great in the shop 🙂. Up until that point I had always bought 2nd hand stuff, home made stuff etc. then I got to a point where I could afford to buy some decent gear and went for it. The gear I bought was excellent... I bought into the whole class D amp thing / hi-fi sound etc which is great for portability and clarity of sound,  but it's taken me until now to admit to myself that i'd lost 'my' sound.

So here we are 5 years on .... and I think I'm going to go and try some old school / 2nd hand amps again 🙂

That was pretty much what I did, I’d bought some pretty decent hi end gear and was completely satisfied with it. And then I played through a years old Ashdown ABM stack at a festival and it hit me like the proverbial, old, cheaper heavyweight gear was better for the sound I wanted.

[Al Krow]

There's a classic SWR SM900 in the FS, right now...

Edited August 6, 2020 by Al Krow

[krispn]

On 02/08/2020 at 23:30, Andy Vincent said:

Hi folks!

I have a dilemma. I used the have great bass tone,  every time I fired up the stack and played a few notes it brought a smile to my face. Now I've kind of lost my way and I struggle to get a sound that inspires me. Amps that sounded great for me in the past were Trace Elliot, SWR etc. 

Personal reasons led me down the class D / light weight route and I kind of fell into the pursuit of pure sound as opposed to a coloured tone ... Which I am now questioning.

My first class D was a Genz Benz streamliner 900 which has massive power, but I really struggled with the EQ / tone section ....I struggled find musical tones, and the valve input gain just seemed too distorted, too loose. Now I have a Bergantino Forte, which is great, and the EQ is more musical, but I'm not getting 'THAT SOUND' ....it's so difficult to describe ... 

I am looking for that 'bite' on the input stage, some growl but not scrappy distortion ... I want some aggressive grit without the baggy-ness, followed by the ability to add some warmth and high mids and a whole load of power.

Is that too much to ask ? 🤔

Any suggestions most welcome ... What amps are other people running? Valve front ends? Full solid state? 

 

Thanks ..... 

 

 

If the 100w would be enough for your gigs (with a modern efficient cab)  - Vintage tone stack, modern tone section and blend-able drive.

[Nobatron]

I have noticed a rise in the availability of used Trace Elliot stuff going for decent prices recently.

It would mean you'd have to lug around a heavy TE rig but they do sound great.