Powered PA Speaker As Bass Amp

[Frank Blank]

On 06/08/2020 at 13:37, Nobatron said:

K12s are great but they're not going to give you as good a bass response as the dedicated rig which is specifically voiced for bass guitar.

My QSC K12.2 gives me a better response and sound than any trad bass rig I’ve had over the last forty odd years.

On 06/08/2020 at 13:37, Nobatron said:

Also you wouldn't be able to plug a bass direct into a K12 so you'd need to buy a preamp of some kind to put in front of it so that's another expense unless you have one already.

You can plug your bass directly into the QSC without a preamp.

[Frank Blank]

On 06/08/2020 at 19:03, Steve Browning said:

True. I wondered the value of the post after making iit.That said, a 97 page thread is not going to have a high percentage of useful content. 

On the contrary. I dumped my traditional bass rig in favour of a QSC K12.2 on the basis of the huge amount of extremely useful information provided on that thread and it’s the best decision I’ve made for decades. Sure there’s some silly arguing at the beginning of it but I think that’s a highly informative thread jam packed with excellent info.

[chyc]

On 15/08/2020 at 09:11, Frank Blank said:

My QSC K12.2 gives me a better response and sound than any trad bass rig I’ve had over the last forty odd years.

Do you use a sub?

[Frank Blank]

9 minutes ago, chyc said:

Do you use a sub?

No. After reading comments from people far more technically knowledgeable than me on the highly informative...

...thread I decided using a sub was pointless.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Frank Blank

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 04/08/2020 at 20:52, Baloney Balderdash said:

I am about to make my bass rig mobile, and I have pondered on at some point buying an active PA speaker, just to have something in place of an amp.

The one I have in sight is the ralatively cheap The Box PA 502 A.

Judging from the specs at least it ought to be be able to handle bass fairly well.

15" 300W woofer and 100W tweeter, with a frequency response that claims to be 35Hz to 20kHz (-10dB)/40Hz to 18kHz (-3dB), which should mean that as long as you will not need to go lower than the low E of a standard tuned 4 string bass, it should reproduce it quite well.

That's in theory though.

But if these numbers are legit some dedicated bass cabs in existence got worse low end response.

 

Here's a link to it from Thomann:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_pa502a_aktives_fullrangesystem.htm?ref=intl&shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiZ2IiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6IjQiLCJsYW5ndWFnZSI6ImVuIn0%3D 

 

And here's a link to the manual:

https://images.static-thomann.de/pics/atg/atgdata/document/manual/160815_c_160815_r2_en_online.pdf

 

 

 

I took the risk and actually bought one of these PA speakers, the passive version though, but the exact same speaker, just without a build in poweramp, and I can actually confirm that it has excellent low frequency reproduction, more balanced between high and low frequency representation though than my SWR Triad I bass cab, the SWR being an early attempt of a full range bass cabinet, equipped with a 15" speaker unit receiving the full frequency range of the signal, a 10" speaker that via the build in crossover filter only receives the part of the signal that lies between 100Hz and 5kHz, and a high frequency tweeter horn that only receives everything from the signal that lies above 5kHz, being able to control how much of that part of the signal it receives via a build in attenuator.

To be perfectly honest I did end up preferring the tone of my SWR Triad I, but actually not in particular just because of it tone wise balancing slightly more towards the low end, really more so simply because the, no doubt higher quality, speaker units of the SWR cab, compared to the units used in the cheap The Box PA speaker, simply sounded better to my ears.

However I would still claim that The Box PA 502 full range PA speaker would be perfectly passable for use with bass, as it doesn't actually seems to struggle with reproducing the low frequencies of a bass signal whatsoever (at least down to and including the low E of a regular 4 string bass tuning), and I am quite sure using just right cab IR and EQ'ed just right you could get quite decent results from it, despite the obvious relatively cheap speaker units it is equipped with.

In my opinion what likely eventual would disqualify this particular PA speaker as a proper candidate for a full range speaker to use with amp and cab IR sims for bass, would really rather be more of a case of the sub and tweeter units it is equipped with not exactly being of top notch quality, not exactly sounding great, though absolutely not exactly bad either, than because of any inability to reproduce the low frequency content coming from of a bass properly, since I don't think that would actually be true. 

So I guess the conclusion, as far as I am concerned, would be that nothing inherently about full range PA speakers seems to prevent them from being a great option for full range speakers used with amp and cab IR sims for bass in mind, as long as you are just willing to spend the money required to get one equipped with proper quality speaker units that match your tonal ambitions. 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Baloney Balderdash

[chyc]

10 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

No. After reading comments from people far more technically knowledgeable than me on the highly informative...

 

I'm on page 6. Hooo boy I wish I hadn't started now.

[Frank Blank]

50 minutes ago, chyc said:

I'm on page 6. Hooo boy I wish I hadn't started now.

Keep going, there’s some silly ‘big amps are best’ nonsense early on but it soon settles into a really thorough discussion of the topic. Reading that thread lead me to totally change my views on bass amplification and ultimately to a completely new rig that I’m really happy with.

[Beedster]

On 07/08/2020 at 13:23, stewblack said:

If it annoys you so much and no one seems to respond to your input it is a little odd you keep returning to the thread. 

 

On 06/08/2020 at 19:07, stewblack said:

That's how the Internet works. 

Think you answered your own question there Stew

Personally I'm very glad Bill does keep returning to these threads

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, Frank Blank said:

Keep going, there’s some silly ‘big amps are best’ nonsense early on but it soon settles into a really thorough discussion of the topic. Reading that thread lead me to totally change my views on bass amplification and ultimately to a completely new rig that I’m really happy with.

Which is what this forum should be doing (and often does of course). Rhetoric has its place, as does experience and opinion, but it's a decent discussion/debate with good evidence - albeit alongside opinion and experience - that's required on these topics. As any decent neuroscientist will tell you, when the brain has learned something new, it experiences and processes information related to that learning differently. Learning about sound, acoustics, tone, etc is a great way to process those forms of information in a different way.  Different doesn't mean better of course, but it gives you options.

And of course, this new learning means you can justify more - albeit different - gear

[EBS_freak]

Watching people get upset by the word dinosaur is totally hilarious.

[chris_b]

On 07/08/2020 at 16:54, Baloney Balderdash said:

As someone who weren't on this forum a year ago and who have no intention of looking through the entire archive of threads on here, I for one personally really appreciate this re-run of the topic. . . . . . . .

IMO re-runs of threads can be helpful. Over time people's experiences can change and grow their advice, which will be very useful to others.

[EBS_freak]

46 minutes ago, chris_b said:

IMO re-runs of threads can be helpful. Over time people's experiences can change and grow their advice, which will be very useful to others.

Agreed - it's why I did a latest view on IEMS-

compared to the 84 pages worth of 

The latter shows how things have progressed (and become much better and more affordable) - the end of the thread doesn't exactly track with the start.

[BigRedX]

3 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

Keep going, there’s some silly ‘big amps are best’ nonsense early on but it soon settles into a really thorough discussion of the topic. Reading that thread lead me to totally change my views on bass amplification and ultimately to a completely new rig that I’m really happy with.

Agreed. I'm another who ditched my conventional bass rig in favour of an FRFR and I can't ever see myself going back.

The £2k I paid for my Helix and RCF745 might seem a lot, but it was less than I spent on the rig it replaced and most of that was bought second hand. 

[Frank Blank]

On 09/09/2020 at 13:35, BigRedX said:

Agreed. I'm another who ditched my conventional bass rig in favour of an FRFR and I can't ever see myself going back.

The £2k I paid for my Helix and RCF745 might seem a lot, but it was less than I spent on the rig it replaced and most of that was bought second hand. 

My rig is a HX Stomp into a QSC K12.2, a rig that will set you back about 1k now, but likewise, I'll not be going back to an amp/cab setup.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Frank Blank

[Paul S]

For those occasions that I need a rig it is now an RCF 732-A and a TC Spectradrive, from which I can get the sound I want.  Generally, just the Spectradrive into the pa, which is one of those jobbies that sits behind us so I can hear myself.  It does make Life simple  I have an in-ear set up, which I will play with at some point but, at the moment we aren't playing loud enough to add this extra layer of gear.

[stewblack]

I recall one gig where we were extraordinarily short of room and time to set up. I bunged everyone through one of my RCF cabs (except vocals) and stuck it on a seat behind us. 

It happily coped with two acoustic guitars, a mandolin and a keyboard. In fact I believe that band would get a better sound if we all went into my pa instead of the ragtag pile of amps which generally produce a cacophony. 

Not sure if it would cope with the bass though. 

[Beer of the Bass]

As much as I'm enjoying the valve amp and coloured speakers approach for bass guitar (OK, it's not very logical but it's fun and fits the vibe of my band), I would think seriously about something like this for double bass amplification if I had the gigs to justify it.

[Dan Dare]

4 hours ago, Beer of the Bass said:

As much as I'm enjoying the valve amp and coloured speakers approach for bass guitar (OK, it's not very logical but it's fun and fits the vibe of my band), I would think seriously about something like this for double bass amplification if I had the gigs to justify it.

Exactly. A double bass (provided you have a decent pickup system) should benefit from the the clean and uncoloured sound of a good quality PA speaker. A bass guitar not so much, I feel. At home, I've played about with running my bass through my PA (Fohhn LX150 tops and XS22 subs - 1.5kw and like a big hi-fi. Wonderful for vocals and acoustic instruments), using a Lehle Basswitch preamp. So I'm certainly not cheaping out or using budget DJ gear. It sounds super clean, but also a little sterile. Maybe I'm just too used to the built in character/sound of bass amps, but I don't feel it would work that well in a band context.