Tele bass necks / 51 p bass neck query?

[barrycreed]

Hi all, I am thinking of looking at a 51 p bass body, and have seen some for sale online with neck pockets to fit standard fender dimension necks.

I have a jazz bass neck lying around which I may use, but do like the tele headstock on the original models. Can you get t style p bass necks with a thin j bass neck profile? Or are the tele style p bass necks all thick? I suppose a normal P bass profile wouldn't be so bad either.

[hooky_lowdown]

You may want to note that the 51 style neck and pocket on the body is more square than the split coil versions.

I think I've seen 51 style necks on eBay with 38mm nuts, not sure about depth mind. From China I may add.

[barrycreed]

@hooky_lowdown good to know, so there would possibly be some small gaps if I fitted a j neck. 

[hooky_lowdown]

Yes, the standard fender neck have a more round end, where as the 51 style is flatter, so there will be gaps either corner of the body's neck pocket.

[barrycreed]

ah right, so I should be looking for something with a square neck, as opposed to rounded...

[Cuzzie]

Essentially you need to match your body neck pocket rout to the contour of your neck heel.

If there is a mismatch you can alter the neck pocket to fit the neck so there is a good contact maintained.

the most important joins are Heel into the body laterally on the upper horn side.

[barrycreed]

Thanks folks. So for example in this, I have the option of choosing a vintage correct neck socket or a reissue neck socket. I would assume I'd still need a neck with a square heel?

https://www.guitarbuild.co.uk/products/pb-51

On reflection, it's the 54 countoured body I'd go for. Any suggestions for wood. (Not heavy!). Guitarbuild has quite a few options. Plan would be to keep it a natural finish, as dark as possible once finished. No pickguard, possibly black hardware... Or else finished where the natural grain would show through.

Edited August 13, 2020 by barrycreed

[barrycreed]

Suppose I could just get one of these, and try and take the "shine" off the neck, and remove that pickguard....

https://shop.fender.com/en-ES/squier-electric-basses/precision-bass/classic-vibe-50s-precision-bass/0374500501.html

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by barrycreed

[RichardH]

I've eyed up the CV 50s basses, but the necks aren't jazz width - from the specs: "Nut Width: 1.685" (42.8 mm)"

[barrycreed]

1 hour ago, RichardH said:

I've eyed up the CV 50s basses, but the necks aren't jazz width - from the specs: "Nut Width: 1.685" (42.8 mm)"

I could probably live without a j neck profile, but wouldn't want a baseball bat thick one either. Bar getting a custom neck made....

[RichardH]

This might do the trick?

[barrycreed]

1 hour ago, RichardH said:

This might do the trick?

tempting! I really need to sell some things first, so should park this idea until I do :)

[hooky_lowdown]

Have you tried a slab body before? I bloody hate them, very uncomfortable.

[barrycreed]

2 hours ago, hooky_lowdown said:

Have you tried a slab body before? I bloody hate them, very uncomfortable.

On reflection, it's the 54 body I'd go for, so the same as the current CV.

[kodiakblair]

8 hours ago, barrycreed said:

tempting! I really need to sell some things first, so should park this idea until I do

Before you do check your jazz neck with a square. To flatten the heel might take 3 - 4 mm.

 

As long as your bridge will allow the saddles to freely move back the removed 3 to 4 mm you can still use the guitarbuild body.

Minimum speaking length of a bass string is 34", your saddles will always be more than 34" from the nut so "-  3m"  is just a case of winding back the saddles .

If you're concerned about the fretboard don't go the whole hog, just do the pocket depth. Think a thicker fret overhang like those found on many 21 fret necks.

 

For a great squared heel neck I'd recommend Wan Guitar on Ali Ex or their ebay store "jinwan". The 2 Tele bass necks I bought are terrific though they'll be too chunky for your needs. Ask them how thick the 38mm nut version is.

 

[RichardH]

10 hours ago, kodiakblair said:

For a great squared heel neck I'd recommend Wan Guitar on Ali Ex or their ebay store "jinwan". The 2 Tele bass necks I bought are terrific though they'll be too chunky for your needs. Ask them how thick the 38mm nut version is.

I've been looking at their necks. The headstock looks weird on most of them - more like a telecaster guitar shape, with the "bump" further towards the end. Id that just the photographs, or are they really like that?

This one looks OK

but this looks a bit odd 

....oh, and some of them actually have a rounded heel rather than squared off, so there are options!

Edited August 15, 2020 by RichardH

[JohnDaBass]

13 hours ago, kodiakblair said:

For a great squared heel neck I'd recommend Wan Guitar on Ali Ex or their ebay store "jinwan". The 2 Tele bass necks I bought are terrific though they'll be too chunky for your needs. Ask them how thick the 38mm nut version is.

+1 for the "jinwan" necks. I've had 2 Tele Bass necks and one Jazz neck and they've been great. All three had the MoP block inlays on maple boards with gloss finish and are great. As @RichardH points out the headstock is not quite 100% but 98% in my veiw and a man on a galloping horse is not going to notice! 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by JohnDaBass
Added link

[RichardH]

Thanks for the reminder on that build. In fact your neck looks a lot closer to "proper" than that the one they have on eBay at the moment in that style - which even the Red Arrows on a flyapast would spot as shonky - so maybe the photos on eBay are just samples. I think if I go ahead I'll message the seller first....

[JohnDaBass]

51 minutes ago, RichardH said:

Thanks for the reminder on that build. In fact your neck looks a lot closer to "proper" than that the one they have on eBay at the moment in that style - which even the Red Arrows on a flyapast would spot as shonky - so maybe the photos on eBay are just samples. I think if I go ahead I'll message the seller first....

Yes Wing Commander you are absolutely correct Sir. I bought the Tele Bass necks at different times and the second one is a bit "Orff" a Nant's, but as I was adding a larger decal the extra real estate works a treat. I plan to post a diary of my P51 3/4 upgrade in the coming days.

Roger

10-4

O A O 

[RichardH]

What bass model is this based on? 

....what pickguard/control plate is that designed for? Telecaster bass with the swoopy pickguard? Looks like a Stingray control plate  might fit.. quite fancy a funky frankenbass along those lines...

[Obrienp]

Reviving this thread because I am about to try fitting my ‘51 p bass neck (All Parts licensed) with the square heel to a pattern split P pickup ash body (Gear4Music), which has the rounded pocket end. The body is in the post, so I haven’t had a chance to match them up yet but the general dimensions sound alright.

 

My question is, how much reshaping of the pocket do you have to do? Does it have to completely match the neck heel, or is it OK to do enough to get it to seat, leaving a semi-circular gap between neck and body? Is there any reason why the gap shouldn’t be filled with regular wood filler, or should I just leave it? 
 

I am guessing that I might have to mount the bridge a bit forward of the pre-drilled mounting holes, if I leave a gap between neck heel and back of the pocket. I will measure carefully to see where 17” from the 12th fret lands. I am going to use a Fender high-mass bridge, so it might have enough travel to not need this adjustment.

 

Anyway, any advice and benefit of experience gratefully received.

 

BTW, the reason I am doing this is that the ‘51 p bass bitsa I had the neck on has an Obeche body. This is very light and easy to work but not dense. The consequence seems to have been that it sounds unacceptably bright. I have tried both a Jess Loreiro (not sure I spelt that right) and Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounder ‘51 P pickups in it. Both sound really clanky and brittle, with very little bottom end to speak of. I also have a DiMarzio DP145 Will Power pickup in the neck position and that sounds bright for a mudbucker style unit. Consensus of opinion over on Talk Bass was that the Obeche body was the culprit. I didn’t want to spend the amount of cash required for a ‘51/‘54 body in ash, so I went for one of the cheaper split pickup options. I have a Tone Rider TP1 from a previous project, so this is quite a low cost experiment for me.

 

Another aside: I almost exclusively play medium and short scale basses with Jazz style necks these days, because of arthritis in my left thumb and short fingers. Bizarrely I find the massive ‘51 neck (43mm nut and deep profile) quite comfortable, whereas I struggle with more modern P-bass necks. I’m not sure what the logic is in that!

 

The picture is the donor bitsa ‘51.

[kodiakblair]

1 hour ago, Obrienp said:

Anyway, any advice and benefit of experience gratefully received.

I've fitted square to rounded and vice versa

 

There's no sound reason why the neck heel should fill the pocket, whip the scratchplate off Fenders and you'll find plenty with gaps round the 3 sides 🙂 It might look unsightly buts thats all 👍

Intonation issues is something folk go on about, the difference is so minimal it's not worth bothering about.

 

Here's my trusty 51 P-bass printout, square heel.

 

 

This is a rounded heel neck positioned deep over the pocket, corners touching.

 

 

Overhang of the rounded heel.

 

That 3mm doesn't affect you at all. 

 

1. Your square heel neck stops at the corners.

2. You're fitting the bridge so can move it forward or just move the saddle.

 

Now say you fancy squaring the heel, it's a simple job. 

 

Get plenty of masking tape on the body then rest the neck on it like my 2nd photo, heel corners touching pocket corners. Run a straight edge down each side of the neck.

 

 

When the neck is running centred to the pickups/bridge, draw 2 lines down the masking tape and mark the end of the heel. Remove the neck and clamp 2 straight edges to the body, following the drawn lines and place at stop at the mark where the heel ends. This photo is just for an example, no clamps on.

 

 

That's your jig to square the corners, less than 2 minutes with the router 👍

[Obrienp]

@kodiakblair Many thanks for the advice. I’ll see how far out it looks when I pair up the neck and body. Many thanks for the advice on how to do the surgery. I will use that method if it comes to it.

[JohnDaBass]

I am a long time admirer of @kodiakblair builds his attention to detail and craftsmanship is second to none.

Being a lazy sod I tend to seek the simplest solutions which are in the range of my more limited capabilities. 

As @kodiakblair has shown, we talking about 3mm, so if you have limited access to tools and routers it maybe worth considering gently sanding the heel of the neck to fit the body!

Clearly you end up with a slightly nonstandard neck but if you don't plan to swop the neck then gently sanding the heel of the neck maybe a way forward. I agree with @kodiakblair that the Fender Hi-mass bridge should have enough travel to get the correct intonation. 

Best of luck with your build. 

[Obrienp]

3 hours ago, JohnDaBass said:

I am a long time admirer of @kodiakblair builds his attention to detail and craftsmanship is second to none.

Being a lazy sod I tend to seek the simplest solutions which are in the range of my more limited capabilities. 

As @kodiakblair has shown, we talking about 3mm, so if you have limited access to tools and routers it maybe worth considering gently sanding the heel of the neck to fit the body!

Clearly you end up with a slightly nonstandard neck but if you don't plan to swop the neck then gently sanding the heel of the neck maybe a way forward. I agree with @kodiakblair that the Fender Hi-mass bridge should have enough travel to get the correct intonation. 

Best of luck with your build. 

Thanks for the reassurance and encouragement. WRT sanding the neck, I would do that if it was a cheaper Far Eastern job and I have done that before but this one cost about 5 times as much as the new body. I want to retain its resale value, so I think any surgery will be done to the neck pocket.
 

I am with you on simple solutions. I don’t have a router. I have considered getting one but I can’t see it getting enough use to justify the expense. I would want to get a soft start unit and they tend to be much more expensive. I have found a combination of Forstner bits, sharp chisels and sand paper good enough to do control cavity and pickup routes (not to a level a professional would be happy with). For this job I guess it would be files and sandpaper but I will see how the parts fit together first. If the gap is not too bad and the intonation isn’t a problem I will leave the body alone. I might use a bit of wood filler to fill in any unsightly gaps but I also need to leave space to get a screwdriver in to adjust the truss rod, as it is heel mounted. I put a little groove in the ‘51 body at the end of the neck pocket to facilitate adjustment. I might do that here too: cheaper than buying the Stew Mac Telecaster truss rod tool.