musicman stingray...weak G...

[drTStingray]

32 minutes ago, Jack said:

Please see earlier post, that's what I did on my black one. Fwiw this is one of Leo Fender's suggested solutions, along with adding some magnets to the G string pole pieces to achieve the same result. It works pretty well, although you don't half catch your fingers when you play over the pickup.

Interestingly, his G and L basses have adjustable pole pieces. 

[drTStingray]

17 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

why do you keep insisting, every time there's a thread like this, that people complaining about their G-string are wrong or don't know what they're hearing/doing?

It is... weird to watch. 

If there are lots of people that don't seem to have an issue, great, good for them (I am one of them, I'm happy with my 2002 'ray) but how is that anything to do with anything? It's not a 'majority wins' issue. There are certainly enough people who do have an issue, why do you dismiss what they tell you they experience?  

You're misunderstanding - I'm not saying they don't have this issue - my contention is whether it's the bass or some other issue. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by drTStingray

[fretmeister]

9 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

You're misunderstanding - I'm not saying they don't have this issue - my contention is whether it's the bass or some other issue. 

As Sterling Ball says it's the bass - it's the bass.

[drTStingray]

On 14 August 2020 at 16:15, ikay said:

+1 about avoiding an over-scooped EQ. The chart below of the freq response curve for a Stingray 2-band clearly shows the mid scoop with bass and treble maxed. The centre of this mid scoop falls around 200 to 800Hz which just happens to be G string territory.

The G string frequency ranges from 98Hz (open) to 196Hz (octave) to 392Hz (2 octave). In practice the first harmonic is usually more dominant than the fundamental so the 'effective fundamental' freq range of the G string is double this - ie. from 196Hz (open) to 784Hz (2 octave). Slap bang in the scoop.

The G string does of course generate other higher harmonics but these will sound thinner and weedier than the fundamental. 

Mind the scoop!

The science says this (for a 2 band) - which confirms what Sterling Ball said, but only when you fully boost the bass and treble on 2 band Stingrays.

I know we've got used to septuagenarian world leaders with bleached and nicotine stained hair poo pooing science in favour of rumour and rhetoric but you can't deny these frequency charts.

Next thing, some of you'll be telling us the world's flat because Mr Farage and a few businessman cronies say so often enough that people start to believe it!!! 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by drTStingray

[Jack]

1 hour ago, drTStingray said:

Did the replacement electronics improve things for you?

Massively. When I had two Stingrays that were pretty much identical apart from the colour I decided I wanted to differentiate them so one of them got an angrier, series-wired pickup from Armstrong and a John East MMSR. It wasn't necessarily done because of the weak G, but it definitely helped to mitigate it.

1 hour ago, drTStingray said:

 Another potential point of interest is whether you had 2 or 3 band versions and maple or rosewood boards? I have noticed the rosewood board versions sound darker.

Both of mine were maple and 2 band.

32 minutes ago, pineweasel said:

Sterling Ball posted this in 2005:

http://forums.ernieball.com/ernie-ball-music-man-basses/11343-weak-string-output.html#post133690

(My 1996 Stingray has a weak G, mitigated somewhat by careful pickup height adjustment)

Indeed, and there's the photo of Howard pointing the issue out to Leo Fender in person, with him commenting on his fix of using magnets on top of the pole pieces. When the people who made the bass acknowledge the problem it's sort of hard to argue that it isn't real. FWIW I have no problem with people suggesting ways to fix it or suggesting that they personally haven't experienced it. It's when one tells other people what they are and aren't hearing that it becomes a problem. As a retort to @drTStingray's (admittedly tongue in cheek) point above, maybe it's the people with better ears and hands that can tell there's a problem, and the people who can't hear it just aren't listening hard enough.

 

I, for one, agree with BP (not surprising, as you'd assume he'd know his own basses...) when he says the problem "isn't in the wood" as I found mine went away with the new electronics. It's also worth noting that the issue seems to have been hugely mitigated with the Stingray 5 (using what would become the Sterling preamp) and the revised HH models a few years ago and then has disappeared entirely with the new Specials.

[mcnach]

37 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

You're misunderstanding - I'm not saying they don't have this issue - my contention is whether it's the bass or some other issue. 

 

That's not how I understood it, so my sincerest apologies for the ongoing misunderstanding.

[drTStingray]

He also mentioned in his view, using flatwounds also assists. 

As we all know using flatwounds is now a legal requirement for bass 😂😬 I wonder if any of those experiencing this have found that assists? 

Interestingly the 3 band Stingray EQ originated from the same period as the development of the SR5 - the only difference really is the series/ parallel/single coil switching ability of the SR5. And yes the series version is fatter sounding (more mids) which would help the G string sound. 

Some early MM Sabres with 3 band EQ have SR5 printed on the board. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by drTStingray

[drTStingray]

4 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

That's not how I understood it, so my sincerest apologies for the ongoing misunderstanding.

Accepted 👍😏

[pineweasel]

17 minutes ago, Jack said:

It's also worth noting that the issue seems to have been hugely mitigated with the Stingray 5 (using what would become the Sterling preamp) and the revised HH models a few years ago and then has disappeared entirely with the new Specials.

In one of the Stingray Special promo videos Sterling Ball infers as much, describing them as having much better string to string balance.

[Paulhauser]

Reading all of this I grabbed my SR5 to check the G string and it is as good as the rest. 

( I'm a Spector player but I always wanted a Stingray in my collection. I ended up with a great one, it has one of the best B string I have ever met on a 34" instrument and has a lovely neck!)

[Chopthebass]

I was set on buying a new Classic 5HH and went to try on last Saturday. I didn't get as far as plugging in because the G string kept rolling off the edge of the frets. Looking at the D string it wasn't exactly central to the fretboard dots. The usual fix is to slacken neck bolts and move it, then re-tighten. But there was zero play. So can't comment on weak G string! But can comment on a crap G string!

There lots online from other Forums about this. People are saying its 'your technique' . That's rubbish. Just a poorly designed neck, poorly assembled. Shame though. I was set to buy it until I saw it!

[drTStingray]

@Chopthebass you should have asked to try a John Myung signature Bongo - six strings on the same neck profile 😬 he seems to have no problem with the design even with 6 strings. 

Seriously, which shop did you try the new  'Classic 5HH' in? I might be interested!!! 

[Chopthebass]

2 hours ago, drTStingray said:

@Chopthebass you should have asked to try a John Myung signature Bongo - six strings on the same neck profile 😬 he seems to have no problem with the design even with 6 strings. 

Seriously, which shop did you try the new  'Classic 5HH' in? I might be interested!!! 

Shop is Long and McQuade in Calgary

[Woodinblack]

4 minutes ago, Chopthebass said:

Shop is Long and McQuade in Calgary

They have a lot of things - is that all in the store?

[Chopthebass]

1 minute ago, Woodinblack said:

They have a lot of things - is that all in the store?

I tried it in the store, if that's what you are asking.

[Woodinblack]

Just now, Chopthebass said:

I tried it in the store, if that's what you are asking.

No, I meant I went to their website to have a look, they have a ton of basses there, I was wondering if that was just all their stores, or stock, or they actually have all those instruments in the store.

[Chopthebass]

6 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

No, I meant I went to their website to have a look, they have a ton of basses there, I was wondering if that was just all their stores, or stock, or they actually have all those instruments in the store.

oh Gotcha. They have a fraction of what's on their site. But they did have a 5HH, 4H, BFR Fretless. Apparently the wait time for an Ernie Ball order is horrendous, due to the appocolypse.

[Nebadon2000]

9 hours ago, drTStingray said:

I know we've got used to septuagenarian world leaders with bleached and nicotine stained hair poo pooing science in favour of rumour and rhetoric but you can't deny these frequency charts.

Next thing, some of you'll be telling us the world's flat because Mr Farage and a few businessman cronies say so often enough that people start to believe it!!! 

You noticed too, well said.

This G string thing seems perplexing been in uncountable threads for decades and seems real to those who rant about it; but you may have something there.

I have used a Stingray and Reflex with no problems with G but I never 'Max' anything in real use but I did sometimes for brief moments when noodling; didn't pay enough attention to notice G string performance 

[drTStingray]

3 hours ago, Chopthebass said:

oh Gotcha. They have a fraction of what's on their site. But they did have a 5HH, 4H, BFR Fretless. Apparently the wait time for an Ernie Ball order is horrendous, due to the appocolypse.

Not sure what horrendous is but last time I ordered one (a Stingray Special HH) it took 8 months. I suspect it may now be longer. 

Has anyone been seeing the You Tube videos about Guitar Centre stores running very low on guitars and manufacturers not being able to meet demand? This is presumably all resulting from the pandemic (and the business models of various organisations collapsing owing to the recession ensuing). 

Edited September 1, 2020 by drTStingray

[Misdee]

On 31/08/2020 at 15:18, drTStingray said:

The science says this (for a 2 band) - which confirms what Sterling Ball said, but only when you fully boost the bass and treble on 2 band Stingrays.

I know we've got used to septuagenarian world leaders with bleached and nicotine stained hair poo pooing science in favour of rumour and rhetoric but you can't deny these frequency charts.

Next thing, some of you'll be telling us the world's flat because Mr Farage and a few businessman cronies say so often enough that people start to believe it!!! 

 

 

I appreciate what you are saying, Dr T, but why is it that we don't  need to have graphs and scientific  explanations  about why other kinds of basses actually sound o.k when our ears are telling us otherwise?

I would contend that, for whatever reason, there are a significant number of Musicman Stingrays that don't sound satisfactory on the G string. Not all Stingrays  by any means, but some for sure. As with any such  idiosyncrasy, it will annoy some people more than others. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Misdee

[Lozz196]

I’ve had three Stingrays, only noticed a weaker G on one, and it was only when I strung with nickel strings. It was fine with steels and flats, just slightly weaker when the nickels were on it.

[Marty Forrer]

In the 90s I had a 4 string with no G problem at all. Then I had a 5 string and the G was weak. I tried different pickup heights, different strings and different pre. Made no difference. Sold it in disgust and bought another 5. Exactly the same problem. I gave up then and have never bothered with Stingrays since.

[Heathy]

Not sure about whether the frequency charts fully addresses the issue. Notes of the same pitch higher up on the D string were still much louder on my stingray (apologies if this misses the point).

I could mitigate the quiet G string issue by adjusting the eq (removing the scoop), but as that left me with a tone I didn't want it was pointless.

Five years after my bad experience with a Stingray, I have recently purchased a five String EBMM Sterling. Hope this will be ok, but obviously I'm yet to play it in anger...

[Chris2112]

On 31/08/2020 at 14:48, drTStingray said:

Interestingly, his G and L basses have adjustable pole pieces. 

The G&L idea of having the adjustable pole piece is really smart, typically useful thinking from Leo Fender. However, the Stingray issue seems to be more to do with the alignment of the string and the pole piece rather than the height of it. A G&L will let you move the pole piece up and down as you wish, but in the Stingray they just seem to be plain off centre! (on the old pickups)

[ebenezer]

Well, just an update folks!......changed the stock pickup for an aguilar alnico MM pickup...also had the east three band preamp installed....The tone now is more refined although i do fine the treble does not have the bite of the original....the semi-parametric mid is useful though!.....As a plus, the G string seems better and more balanced.