Pickup dilemma

[TRBboy]

Hey folks, 

I'm just about to embark on my first bass build from scratch, with some help from a local luthier. 

It's going to be a 34" scale 5 string, with 18mm spacing at the bridge (as that's what I'm used to and like). It's going to be passive, possibly wired VTVT 

I really want a nice, organic, open tone, I guess more vintage /traditional in character, but maybe a bit ballsier. I do prefer Alnico V pickups. 

I did have my heart set on a PJ config, with a hum cancelling J, but it seems too be fairly difficult to find many PJ sets which are suitable for 18mm spacing (even though that seems to be one of the most common 5 string bridge spacings... 🤷🏻‍♂️). 

I've been in touch with Aaron Armstrong, and he could build me some, which would be pretty cool, as I'm sure other people could. 

But I've also been reconsidering my choice; should I just go JJ, because there would be much more choice of pickups then. OR, do I look at something like Nordstrand Big Splits, which sound like they would give me a kinda cross between a P and J pickup in both positions...

Or should I just give up on the 18mm spacing and go 19mm, as I'd have more choice of PJ pickups then (albeit not much more). 

Any inspiration greatly appreciated, I haven't even started the build yet and I'm getting frustrated! 😂

[Lfalex v1.1]

Are there any pickups with "blade" polepieces?

They would allow whatever spacing you like v without worrying about polepiece alignment, if that's your concern..

[ahpook]

I'd say if you favour 18mm, then go for 18mm.

As @Lfalex v1.1 says, you could use pickups with blades...Nordstrand make 'Big Blades', for example.

 

[TRBboy]

Thanks guys, but all the blade type pickups seem to be ceramic bar construction, so probably won't give me the tone I'm after.

Big Splits do come in a size suitable for 18mm spacing though. 

[Merton]

10 minutes ago, TRBboy said:

Thanks guys, but all the blade type pickups seem to be ceramic bar construction, so probably won't give me the tone I'm after.

Big Splits do come in a size suitable for 18mm spacing though. 

Big Splits are exactly what I was going to suggest. Love them in my Zoot Funkmeister. Not quite a PJ because they’re like a weird cross between a P and J themselves but they do sound lovely.

[TRBboy]

1 hour ago, Merton said:

Big Splits are exactly what I was going to suggest. Love them in my Zoot Funkmeister. Not quite a PJ because they’re like a weird cross between a P and J themselves but they do sound lovely.

Thanks Merton, good to hear! 

They're not too aggressive are they? Suitable for a variety of styles would you say? Could you get a passable classic P or J type sound out of them? 

Cheers

[Merton]

44 minutes ago, TRBboy said:

Thanks Merton, good to hear! 

They're not too aggressive are they? Suitable for a variety of styles would you say? Could you get a passable classic P or J type sound out of them? 

Cheers

They aren’t as hot as the ACG pickups in my, er, ACGs, and so I find that makes them feel less aggressive. In a VVT configuration and both on full they just have a gorgeous creamy tone. Solo the neck and you get a reasonable P bass soundalike, and the bridge gives you burp but with more heft than a soloed J in the same place I’d say. I tend to sit mostly on the neck pickup in my pop punk band, or play around with the balance as required when playing in my covers bands. 
I’ve got a few clips of it on my Instagram feed, quite like this one to give you a feel hopefully:

 

[TRBboy]

57 minutes ago, Merton said:

They aren’t as hot as the ACG pickups in my, er, ACGs, and so I find that makes them feel less aggressive. In a VVT configuration and both on full they just have a gorgeous creamy tone. Solo the neck and you get a reasonable P bass soundalike, and the bridge gives you burp but with more heft than a soloed J in the same place I’d say. I tend to sit mostly on the neck pickup in my pop punk band, or play around with the balance as required when playing in my covers bands. 
I’ve got a few clips of it on my Instagram feed, quite like this one to give you a feel hopefully:

 

Thanks Merton, that sounds superb! 

Definitely the kinda vibe I'm looking for. Does your Zoot have an active eq or passive controls? And is that the neck pickup soloed? 

Certainly sounds deep and punchy, but still clear and articulate, and without being overly aggressive or 'clinical'. 

Will follow you on insta! (I'm @Oli_Frost)

[TRBboy]

@Merton I'm stalking you on insta now... Love the Zoot, but REALLY digging the sound of your Finn! 😍

[Merton]

@TRBboy ah cheers! Will follow back

IIRC that clip was both pickups on full but can’t quite remember, had too many shandies since then 🤣

The Zoot is completely passive, just Vol/Vol/Tone like a classic jazz bass. I prefer passive basses as a rule but my Finn 5 and Skelf are both active because I’m of what I wanted out of them. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Merton

[Cuzzie]

Have a word with Jaime at Creamery pick ups in Manchester - my 58 P he did is hands down probably the best pick up i have ever played.

[Cuzzie]

Oh and it’s best to email him, he normally replies wishing 24-48hrs - phone, he says on his website he rarely picks up as he doesn’t hear it when working so emails at the end of the day.

Is the build a full body And neck carve from scratch blanks?
How much you doing yourself?

[TRBboy]

10 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Oh and it’s best to email him, he normally replies wishing 24-48hrs - phone, he says on his website he rarely picks up as he doesn’t hear it when working so emails at the end of the day.

Is the build a full body And neck carve from scratch blanks?
How much you doing yourself?

Thanks @cuzzie, I'll send him a mail.

It is a full build from timber stock, the only premade bits will be electronics /hardware etc. 

I'm hoping to be able to do a lot of it myself, but will hook up with Richard for the trickiest bits (slotting the fretboard, etc). I'm so glad I found him, a really great luthier, and he charges by the hour to use him /his workshop. He obvs makes his own instruments and does repairs etc, but in between that does builds with people. Super nice guy too. 

We met two weeks ago to discuss properly, he's given me a better idea of what I need to do in what order. I'll use my existing basses as references for measurements etc, and there are some ideas I may steal from elsewhere too. Got a fairly clear idea what I want to do though. 

I really fancy trying to build it all out of native woods, so there are some fairly unknown quantities with what I've chosen, but I have a good degree of confidence. 

It's just pickups and hardware that's bugging me! 

[TRBboy]

Listened to a lot of Big Split videos last night.... And I'm less convinced now! Don't know how to explain it, but they almost seem a bit empty /tone less? That's how it comes across on some of the Vids anyway, they seem to sound a bit absent in the low mids. 

Interesting hearing head to heads between big singles /Splits, the singles sounded much more open and toneful to me, and much more present in the low mids. 

Trouble is with videos, you don't know what other variables are in play! 🤷🏻‍♂️

I do wonder if I'm not going to get the sound I want out of a hum cancelling single coil though... 🤔

[Cuzzie]

Not that it means much to anyone but I am no fan of the Nordstrand range

[Cuzzie]

Build sounds cool tho

[Cuzzie]

12 minutes ago, TRBboy said:

Thanks @cuzzie, I'll send him a mail.

It is a full build from timber stock, the only premade bits will be electronics /hardware etc. 

I'm hoping to be able to do a lot of it myself, but will hook up with Richard for the trickiest bits (slotting the fretboard, etc). I'm so glad I found him, a really great luthier, and he charges by the hour to use him /his workshop. He obvs makes his own instruments and does repairs etc, but in between that does builds with people. Super nice guy too. 

We met two weeks ago to discuss properly, he's given me a better idea of what I need to do in what order. I'll use my existing basses as references for measurements etc, and there are some ideas I may steal from elsewhere too. Got a fairly clear idea what I want to do though. 

I really fancy trying to build it all out of native woods, so there are some fairly unknown quantities with what I've chosen, but I have a good degree of confidence. 

It's just pickups and hardware that's bugging me! 

Sounds great and go for it!!!

Absolutely with the neck this is where you need your luthier to get it spot on, it’s so important, a slightly scruffy body is mojo (that’s what I tell myself with my builds!) but necks have to be spot on.

Templating isn’t pretty easy actually, just get some big sheets of MDF, and make sure you have a dust mask as it’s bike stuff, even pick up and neck pockets are easy to rout, and there are loads of tips for reference points out there, bang me a PM with your email and or number and I’ll share what I have gleaned over time if you are interested.

For all things finish related I have found Dartfords to be about the best company in the U.K. for stuff

Hardware is so personal, but there is a reason Hipshot and Gotoh stand the test of time - I particularly like the Carbon-o-lite series if you fancy splashing the cash!

[Cuzzie]

20 minutes ago, TRBboy said:I do wonder if I'm not going to get the sound I want out of a hum cancelling single coil though... 🤔

Or a hum cancelling stacked coil?

[TRBboy]

1 minute ago, Cuzzie said:

Sounds great and go for it!!!

Absolutely with the neck this is where you need your luthier to get it spot on, it’s so important, a slightly scruffy body is mojo (that’s what I tell myself with my builds!) but necks have to be spot on.

Templating isn’t pretty easy actually, just get some big sheets of MDF, and make sure you have a dust mask as it’s bike stuff, even pick up and neck pockets are easy to rout, and there are loads of tips for reference points out there, bang me a PM with your email and or number and I’ll share what I have gleaned over time if you are interested.

For all things finish related I have found Dartfords to be about the best company in the U.K. for stuff

Hardware is so personal, but there is a reason Hipshot and Gotoh stand the test of time - I particularly like the Carbon-o-lite series if you fancy splashing the cash!

Thanks very much, will certainly send you a pm! 

I was a carpenter many moons ago, and still keep my hand in, so I'm reasonably confident in my woodworking ability, although to be honest I've NEVER used a router! 

Definitely the neck is the bit that scares me the most, but with the help of Richard it will be a lot easier. He has a table saw set up with a 0.5mm blade and a sled he's made for slotting fretboards. He said it takes like 10mins to do rather than hours of frustration by hand with a fret saw! 

He is Richard Meyrick BTW, in case anyone wants to look him up. 😊

 

I'm just still a bit baffled why there seems to be less choice of pickups and hardware for 18mm string spacing, when it seems pretty common on production 5 string basses?! Is it purely because fender 5's are 19mm?

[TRBboy]

2 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Or a hum cancelling stacked coil?

Yeah maybe, I don't have any experience with those, and not sure what the pros /cons are vs side by side coils. 

[Cuzzie]

1 minute ago, TRBboy said:

Thanks very much, will certainly send you a pm! 

I was a carpenter many moons ago, and still keep my hand in, so I'm reasonably confident in my woodworking ability, although to be honest I've NEVER used a router! 

Definitely the neck is the bit that scares me the most, but with the help of Richard it will be a lot easier. He has a table saw set up with a 0.5mm blade and a sled he's made for slotting fretboards. He said it takes like 10mins to do rather than hours of frustration by hand with a fret saw! 

He is Richard Meyrick BTW, in case anyone wants to look him up. 😊

 

I'm just still a bit baffled why there seems to be less choice of pickups and hardware for 18mm string spacing, when it seems pretty common on production 5 string basses?! Is it purely because fender 5's are 19mm?

Oh you will be fine then, I have been trying to learn from scratch - routers are very cool, I’ll let you know what I have but it’s the bits that are most important for sure.
 

The pick up thing will to a certain extent be visual - are you a ‘has to be middle of the magnet man’ or not - sonically being off set is just different - look at Old Smoothie Stingray for example where it was made deliberately so. To that end the spacing may not be ‘so’ important depending on what you like

[Cuzzie]

3 minutes ago, TRBboy said:

Yeah maybe, I don't have any experience with those, and not sure what the pros /cons are vs side by side coils. 

I am not sure if they do a 5 string but the Seymour Duncan Hot stack P I eventually managed to source and pop in a build - it’s the same as the Dusty Hill Fender bass - it’s super hot at 29.8k but what a lovely lovely pick up - glorious for finger style Play.

[Hellzero]

Beware when mixing a P with a J as the P has almost twice the output of a standard J.

Furthermore, good sounding fiver P are not the easiest to find.

The 18 mm strings spacing at the bridge is indeed the standard for a fiver.

Forget the Big Splits as just as you noticed they sound hollow and very American, meaning mid scooped.

If you want to have an "authentic" sounding P/J fiver go for the standard : a single coil J at the bridge slightly overwound and a humbucking parallel wired P.

I would look by Aguilar if you want to stay in, again, "authentic" sounding pickups as it's what they really do : copies of the originals.

I love the Nordstrand pure single coils, but not the rest of their range.

You could try Häussel in Germany, they make outstanding pricey pickups.

You can also ask Christoph Dolf from BassCulture in Germany to make you a perfectly matched set with whatever cover you like. His stacked pickups are certainly the best ones I've ever heard and terrific sounding stacked J's. He works alone and as a full custom shop at ultra decent prices (around 250 Euros for a set delivered to your door in about 2 weeks). Just say my name, it may help a bit.

You can also buy a set by Benedetti, THE French pickups maker. Michel, who's dead now, has been making boutique pickups all his life and has transmitted his full knowledge before dying. Ask @ped...

[Merton]

Agree re the Big Split tone comparisons there - for me it’s what I wanted in that bass but can totally see why it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. You may be able to persuade Alan Cringean to sell you an PB /SB pair (that’s his P and J equivalents) given you liked my Finn

Edited August 16, 2020 by Merton

[Cuzzie]

22 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Beware when mixing a P with a J as the P has almost twice the output of a standard J.

Furthermore, good sounding fiver P are not the easiest to find.

The 18 mm strings spacing at the bridge is indeed the standard for a fiver.

Forget the Big Splits as just as you noticed they sound hollow and very American, meaning mid scooped.

If you want to have an "authentic" sounding P/J fiver go for the standard : a single coil J at the bridge slightly overwound and a humbucking parallel wired P.

I would look by Aguilar if you want to stay in, again, "authentic" sounding pickups as it's what they really do : copies of the originals.

I love the Nordstrand pure single coils, but not the rest of their range.

You could try Häussel in Germany, they make outstanding pricey pickups.

You can also ask Christoph Dolf from BassCulture in Germany to make you a perfectly matched set with whatever cover you like. His stacked pickups are certainly the best ones I've ever heard and terrific sounding stacked J's. He works alone and as a full custom shop at ultra decent prices (around 250 Euros for a set delivered to your door in about 2 weeks). Just say my name, it may help a bit.

You can also buy a set by Benedetti, THE French pickups maker. Michel, who's dead now, has been making boutique pickups all his life and has transmitted his full knowledge before dying. Ask @ped...

I have a Bassculture DC5 in my parts cupboard you are welcome to

 

Haüssel’s are very good pick ups, and they have real balls if you like higher output. Their J pick up is one of the few that solo’d in the neck give you an almost P sound

Edited August 16, 2020 by Cuzzie