Eric Clapton’s music “mediocre”?

[PaulWarning]

12 minutes ago, EMG456 said:

I'll give you the Frog Chorus and much of his output after Wings but Silly Love Songs is a masterclass in pop song writing/arranging/production.

I've had enough of Silly Love Songs, just a shame he doesn't follow his own advice

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 8, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[ClassicVibes]

15 minutes ago, casapete said:

Do you not think it would be ‘was a racist’? I also have no time for racist musicians, but the racist incident was over 40 years ago when EC was on a drug and booze fuelled downward spiral that nearly killed him. He has since spoken of how ashamed he is and apologised for his comments. This doesn’t condone his behaviour but does show how he realises how wrong it was. He speaks of this in the recent ‘Life in 12 Bars’ documentary.

Once one, always one. 

[Woodinblack]

3 hours ago, Baxlin said:

I was interested to read comments by Phoebe Bridgers about Clapton, (maybe less said the better about her accusations of his racism) that he produced extremely mediocre music -  and also calling ‘tears from heaven’ the dead baby song, apparently.

I feel his music (since the 70s) is mediocre. Maybe not mediocre, certainly forgettable and ignoreable. Very AI I guess, like if you fed all the 70s mainstream blues songs into an AI, that is what it would play. Maybe that is unfair because he made a lot of those songs, so maybe he is just guilty of sounding like himself. Blues for people who iron their jeans and have to keep their heartrate down because of a pre-existing medical condition I guess.

Listening to that video, I also find that pretty 'generic late 90s' - or what I call alice music (from aliceFM in SF, where I was listening).

The racism thing is well documented and tears from heaven is a song about his dead baby, so I am not sure there is much to comment on there.

So i have no idea who she is, she doesn't do anything special I can see, but that doesn't mean she is wrong.

 

 

 

[Paul S]

Dead baby song.  That is cruel.

(snigger)

For my taste EC hasn't played a good solo since Cream.  As said above, he moved to Fenders and in doing so seemed to forget about the bridge pickup or, indeed, that the tone control can open up a bit more.  Everything sounded like it was played on a kazoo.  It is sometimes hard to believe that the sheer aggression of something like 'Spoonful', for example, is the same guy.  That said I quite like a few of his pop tunes - 'Lay Down Sally' bounces along gently - but generally I prefer my music a bit edgier.

[Woodinblack]

19 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

I imagine that she thinks of herself as spearheading some kind of Sun Records/Punk Rock/Grunge revolution, but there is a lot more to those kind of situations than a kid saying 'old music is crap'. Aside from being meaningless in a broader sense, it's just mean spirited really, and is an example of how the woke generation is just as arrogant and self-centred as every other one through human history.

Agreed - I guess what would be relevant is the context of why did she say that. If she was asked about music in general or older music it would be.  If the question was 'do you have an opinion on Eric Clapton, Race and the song Tears in heaven' then it would be a bit more relevant.

On the grand scheme of things I am not sure why EC would have any relevance to her, but without knowing who she is I guess I wouldn't.

 

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The racism was fairly recent news to me. I need to read more before saying anything much, but while his comments in 1976 were pretty vile, his track record suggests anything but someone with a problem with black people, culture, or music.

His track record before that didn't show he had a problem with it, but he clearly showed he had a problem with it in the 70s. Easy to blame on drugs and alcohol, but not sure how valid that is.

And it was pretty big at the time and since.

 

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I'll go in with an open mind, but certainly, nowadays we do seem to be surrounded by a very polarised way of thinking- someone is either good or bad, left or right. Opinions have no nuance and there is no such thing as a mistake- one poor choice of words and someone can be labelled 'A' racist, as if from that moment every thought or action thereon is somehow infused with hatred.

Opinions have nuance. His at the time didn't. OK, maybe he is a different person now, or maybe he is better at hiding it. I guess we can't know.

 

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I think that it is a very unhealthy way of approaching the matter in a world which I believe is more open to egalitarianism than ever before, despite the current throes of old thinking in the US just now.

Just as much here as there. I used to think it was better, but when our countries leaders and influencers decided to stoke the race card to get ahead it showed that it was as bad as ever, it had just got less acceptable to show in public. As soon as they showed it was, it started heading back fast.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Woodinblack

[Cato]

I'm quite surprised that Clapton is even on the radar of anyone under 30 these days, let alone that he's apparently managed to irritate them enough to make those kinds of comments,

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 8, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Rich]

As has been said, EC is one of the most influential guitarists in the history of influential guitarists. He is the face that launched a thousand Strats. And he bores the t1ts off me.
As far as his music being 'mediocre', well surely mediocrity is entirely subjective? Tomayto tomarto, etc. Unless there's an actual set of official rules written down somewhere of which I was previously unaware. I'm probably not in a position to critique his material -- I'm not a songwriter, so by definition it's better than anything I've ever written  -- so I'll content myself with saying that it doesn't move, inspire or please me in any way. My favourite bit of an EC record is the bit where the needle moves across to the middle and then picks itself up.
And if I never ever hear even 1 second of bloody Layla again for the rest of my life, I will die a happy man.

And no, I've not heard of Phoebe Bridgers either, but that's probably due to the fact that I'm about 30 years too old to be in her target audience   

[mikel]

3 hours ago, Bolo said:

This is one way to accrue some fame I guess. Not saying she's wrong, just saying she's insignificant.

 

Agreed. Classic Troll. Say something that will garner an angry response from fans of a long standing artist  to achieve notoriety. Cheap and unnecessary. Who are these people?

[Dad3353]

39 minutes ago, ClassicVibes said:

Once one, always one. 

If this is a sincere belief, I despair. 'Glass houses' and 'stones' come to mind, as do 'pots' and 'kettles'. Just for balance, I'd suggest 'pardon' and 'forgiveness' as elements of vocabulary.

[oldslapper]

6 minutes ago, mikel said:

 Cheap and unnecessary. Who are these people?

Who are these people? Cheap and unnecessary.

 

[ClassicVibes]

7 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

If this is a sincere belief, I despair. 'Glass houses' and 'stones' come to mind, as do 'pots' and 'kettles'. Just for balance, I'd suggest 'pardon' and 'forgiveness' as elements of vocabulary.

What he said is inexcusable. I will quote his remarks below but how can you forgive someone who comes out with disgusting remarks like these?

Clapton told the crowd that England had "become overcrowded" and that they should vote for Powell to stop Britain from becoming "a black colony". He also told the audience that Britain should "get the foreigners out, get the wogs out, get the coons out", and then he repeatedly shouted the National Front slogan "Keep Britain White".

Edited August 18, 2020 by ClassicVibes

[Dad3353]

3 minutes ago, ClassicVibes said:

What he said is inexcusable...

Whatever. I could point you to some of your own previous posts on this very Forum, for which warnings have been issued, yet you've been 'pardoned' enough to still be here. Maybe your own 'logic' should be applied and you not given any second chances..? 

[Grangur]

1 hour ago, ClassicVibes said:

Once one, always one. 

People are created out of the environment we live in. I don't know how old you are, but in the 50s and 60s I remember there were a few "casual slang" terms we used for referring to our dusky bretherin who were beginning to appear in the area. Many theories about their cleanliness and lifestyles were banded about.

Move forward 50 and we all have been told the errors and we now know those names are wrong. Totally wrong, not even in jest are they excusable. Many of us who will have used the N word on occasions 50 years back are today's angry protestors on a BLM rally. 

So, in conclusion, Sir: you are wrong. 50 years is a long time for our environement and view to have changed.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Grangur

[Woodinblack]

As I said earlier, there is a difference between not saying something because you no longer believe it, or because you understand it is not something you can say without implications.

It is hard for a casual observer to know which is which.

[Rich]

5 hours ago, oldslapper said:

Who are these people? Cheap and unnecessary.

 

From wikipedia:

Charlie Cheap and Norman Unnecessary were a short-lived film comedy duo from the 1950s. Billed as "Basingstoke's very own Abbot & Costello", they starred in several self-produced films such as 'Who Are These People?' and 'Ooh I Say, It's Cheap And Unnecessary', none of which were particularly successful outside Hampshire. Their career as a duo was effectively killed when Charlie Cheap made a series of derogatory remarks about the Duke of Argyll's choice of necktie, not realising that his words were being caught on camera by a Pathé newsreel team. An acrimonious split followed and they each attempted solo careers, resulting in films such as 'Oh My Word, It's Cheap But Definitely Not Unnecessary' and 'Norman's Not Cheap', but these sank without trace. A year later, Norman Unnecessary died in a bizarre gardening accident. Charlie Cheap was last seen on a tramp steamer working his passage to Uruguay. Ironically, the tramp steamer also sank without trace.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Rich

[ClassicVibes]

11 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Whatever. I could point you to some of your own previous posts on this very Forum, for which warnings have been issued, yet you've been 'pardoned' enough to still be here. Maybe your own 'logic' should be applied and you not given any second chances..? 

Wouldn't this have been better over a private message? Not very professional to do this on the open forum. Or do the mods like their constant power trip?

[ClassicVibes]

6 minutes ago, Grangur said:

People are created out of the environment we live in. I don't know how old you are, but in the 50s and 60s I remember there were a few "casual slang" terms we used for referring to our dusky bretherin who were beginning to appear in the area. Many theories about their cleanliness and lifestyles were banded about.

Move forward 50 and we all have been told the errors and we now know those names are wrong. Totally wrong, not even in jest are they excusable. Many of us who will have used the N word on occasions 50 years back are today's angry protestors on a BLM rally. 

So, in conclusion, Sir: you are wrong. 50 years is a long time for our environement and view to have changed.

So 50 years ago it was okay to dislike non white people? Regardless of whether you are 1 years old or 100 years old, it will always be wrong.

You sound like someone who was caught out and then very quickly back peddled. 

[Rich]

I just laughed out loud at the idea of a 'mods power trip'. Seriously.

[ahpook]

I'm going to send a link to this thread to Phoebe Bridgers.

 

 

[Dad3353]

13 minutes ago, ClassicVibes said:

Wouldn't this have been better over a private message? Not very professional to do this on the open forum. Or do the mods like their constant power trip?

I'm not a professional, and adhere only to my own standards, be they good or bad. I'm not typing, here, as a Mod, but as a Forum member, so 'Yes, this is my 'power trip''. Carry on; you're doing well. Keep digging at me if you wish; I've thick skin. 

[Dapper Bandit]

I don't think she has really committed any great sin. She wrote a song which briefly references a public figure - ain't the first and I'll bear my behind on the high street if she's the last.

 

As a result the music press appeared to ask her a question about her opinion of said public figure to which she responded - an incident not entirely without precident?

 

So, the crux of the matter is do you agree with her opinion? 

Now, I happen to agree with her, I find EC's music bland and cynical as he slowly removed all the edge from his music until it became entirely spherical! Also, drugs and alcohol are not a bullet-proof excuse for such a massive racially-motivated public diatribe but I also believe and hope for change and growth in everyone and he has certainly not done anything like that again publicly so I'll have to take him at face value on that.

 

So we are left with some people find his music boring and some people don't like that he advocated for an ethno-state at one point in time. Not that shocking, not that controversial?

[Dad3353]

13 minutes ago, ClassicVibes said:

So 50 years ago it was okay to dislike non white people? Regardless of whether you are 1 years old or 100 years old, it will always be wrong.

You sound like someone who was caught out and then very quickly back peddled. 

S'not all that long ago folks were burned witches. S'not all that long ago folks went to prison for meeting up in public toilets. S'not all that long ago it was policy to 'bus' kids to schools. Things evolve, and folks evolve too. These disparaging aspersions are more indications of your own 'mindset' than that of others. 

[yorks5stringer]

16 minutes ago, Rich said:

I just laughed out loud at the idea of a 'mods power trip'. Seriously.

Mods Power trip? That was done with Quadrophenia?