Eric Clapton’s music “mediocre”?

[skankdelvar]

Bob Mould hacking the bejasus out of his - er - Strat

* I've heard of Bob Mould

* I don't much get off on Husker Du but ...

* Bob's next proper band Sugar was fabtastic and Copper Blue (← YT link) one of the great rock albums of all time

* Bob's solo work has been fairly tasty especially the recent stuff which has some hilarious vids, hilarious not being something you expect from a man who once released an album entitled Black Sheets of Rain

* His experimental dance music album was a bit godawful but all dance albums by rock guitarists are godawful (oh, Gary...)

* Any rock guitarist who comes out as gay then puts his musical career on hold to become a pro wrestler gets my vote

Conclusion

IMO, Bob Mould more interesting now than Clapton but possibly not as interesting as Clapton once was.  Not as widely influential (though not un-influential, Pixies, Nirvana, Foos, etc).

Clapton more recognisable name than Bob Mould, considerably richer and more widely influential.

The good news is that Clapton and Mould both play Strats and both currently exist in the same world, and lots of people are very happy that this is the case.

With that, here's Bob's take on recent events. It's killer stuff (language NSFW) :

 

Meanwhile, Pete Townshend sits in his room and mithers about being 'relevant'.

Edited August 18, 2020 by skankdelvar

[Nail Soup]

Is Clapton mediocre?

If mediocre means untalented then objectively no. If mediocre means unexciting or uninteresting then subjectively for me yes.

You can make far more exiting blues-based music with far less talent the Clapton. 

Phoebe Bridgers - not really heard of her before but the song in the video was OK enough. "OK enough"..... maybe that's what mediocre means!

Edited August 18, 2020 by Nail Soup

[BrunoBass]

I have huge respect for EC as a musician and a singer (great, underrated voice) but his material, bar a few Cream tracks, leaves me cold. 

The ‘dead baby song’ comment is out of order. 

[BrunoBass]

12 hours ago, Baxlin said:

And, tbh, is Phoebe Bridgers someone I should have heard of, because I have to admit, I haven’t.

She’s the woman who’s unproven allegations against Ryan Adams have pretty much ruined his career, but that’s another story... 

[casapete]

4 minutes ago, BrunoBass said:

I have huge respect for EC as a musician and a singer (great, underrated voice) but his material, bar a few Cream tracks, leaves me cold. 

The ‘dead baby song’ comment is out of order. 

Agree with you about EC ‘s voice, sadly underrated ( due to his guitar playing maybe?). 

And the other comment mentioned is not only out of order, but technically incorrect - poor Conor Clapton was actually 4 and a half years old when he fell to his death in a tragic accident from a New York high rise apartment. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, steantval said:

Here is the young woman in question.

 

Isn’t she ironic?

[ahpook]

20 minutes ago, BrunoBass said:

She’s the woman who’s unproven allegations against Ryan Adams have pretty much ruined his career, but that’s another story... 

Using her allegations of abuse at the hands of Ryan Adams is pretty darn low in this context.

If you don't like her music or opinions, fine...but don't try and discredit her by dragging in your opinion of her very serious allegations against him.

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by ahpook

[Bassfinger]

Unless the allegations were untrue, which makes the context of this discussion even more pertinent.

Alas, we'll never know.

[Dapper Bandit]

Would they be more pertinent? It would seem entirely unrelated to me, her opinion of Clapton would very much exist in it's own sphere. 

EDIT: the only correlation I could think of would be if Ms. Bridgers was actively trying to "ruin his career" by making false allegations that he was a mediocre artist with a racist past. Which we have already discussed as being firstly subjective and so valid either way and secondly factually true in a public declaration. So it's not quite an apples-apples comparison.

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Dapper Bandit

[peteb]

1 hour ago, skankdelvar said:

 

With that, here's Bob's take on recent events. It's killer stuff (language NSFW) :

 

I enjoyed that more than I thought I would...! Which Green Day album was the original version on? 

[Stub Mandrel]

Clapton.

Once he was brilliant.

He lost his way with drugs and mental health issues. That racist rant can be, perhaps, forgiven but not forgotten. Not for being in a different context, but because he was screwed up. The worst aspect being that it was a kick in the teeth for all the people whose shoulders he had stood on, and others who were (and some who still are) his friends. It was certainly a nadir for a life that's had some ups and downs.

But I'm willing to believe that wasn't the 'real' Clapton. It was sensibly, if not fully, explored in that recent documentary. I don't think his views were as deeply rooted as, say, Wagner's anti-semitism, but that doesn't stop me appreciating Wagner's music - it does help give it a context. But for Clapton, that rant doesn't seem to make any sense in the context of his life and music.

Ironically when Clapton got his stinky poo back together, he had completely lost his edge, musically, at least as a songwriter.

He can still achieve brilliance as a soloist, but like Mark Knopfler he's wholeheartedly embraced the middle of the musical road for his own output.

 

And if we are all going to have any chance of living in harmony, we have to remember to 'hate the sin, not the sinner' and accept that people can change and redeem themselves {all said in a religion-neutral way].

 

[BrunoBass]

52 minutes ago, ahpook said:

Using her allegations of abuse at the hands of Ryan Adams is pretty darn low in this context.

If you don't like her music or opinions, fine...but don't try and discredit her by dragging in your opinion of her very serious allegations against him.

 

Very serious allegations indeed. Allegations in which a thorough FBI investigation found no basis. Pretty low to destroy a much loved artist’s career on unfounded allegations. Without going too off topic, RA is probably a bit of a creep who made some improper suggestions to a young female artist. Hard to defend if so, but he didn’t deserve to have the rug pulled from under his entire career. 

[Dapper Bandit]

But what does that have to do with Eric Clapton?

Also, the FBI investigated a suspected case in inappropriate conduct with a minor, not whether he was a shatbag to adult ladies that said he was. Which included his now ex-wife and several others. And is also massively unconnected to Eric Clapton, still.

[paulbuzz]

That Phoebe Bridgers track is a bit ordinary, but still more enjoyable than anything EC has done in the last 50 years.

Don't think she's ever likely to match up to his work in the decade before that, though.

[T-Bay]

2 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

Bob Mould hacking the bejasus out of his - er - Strat

* I've heard of Bob Mould

* I don't much get off on Husker Du but ...

* Bob's next proper band Sugar was fabtastic and Copper Blue (← YT link) one of the great rock albums of all time

* Bob's solo work has been fairly tasty especially the recent stuff which has some hilarious vids, hilarious not being something you expect from a man who once released an album entitled Black Sheets of Rain

* His experimental dance music album was a bit godawful but all dance albums by rock guitarists are godawful (oh, Gary...)

* Any rock guitarist who comes out as gay then puts his musical career on hold to become a pro wrestler gets my vote

Conclusion

IMO, Bob Mould more interesting now than Clapton but possibly not as interesting as Clapton once was.  Not as widely influential (though not un-influential, Pixies, Nirvana, Foos, etc).

Clapton more recognisable name than Bob Mould, considerably richer and more widely influential.

The good news is that Clapton and Mould both play Strats and both currently exist in the same world, and lots of people are very happy that this is the case.

With that, here's Bob's take on recent events. It's killer stuff (language NSFW) :

 

Meanwhile, Pete Townshend sits in his room and mithers about being 'relevant'.

Not sure how this has become Mould V Clapton (Mould IS better for the record, proven fact as he isn’t called Eric - ok, Bob is only marginally better). The question was what artist has managed to keep fresh and change output continually. Hence my response of Mr Mould. Copper Blue and Beaster are utterly perfect to me, Black sheets of Rain a masterpiece in misery and his Husker Du output of interest in a hippy sort of way. Apart from his very distinctive voice his style has migrated and evolved through so many genres (though yet to release a Jazz or Rap album as far as I know) so much that it’s hard to define what is ‘mouldesque’ in style. I would disagree with regards to influence, but that may be an age thing. Clapton was utterly irrelevant to most new bands by the late 80s early 90s, Mould is still listed as influential on several new bands I listen to, but in twenty years? That is time moving on. 

[skankdelvar]

12 minutes ago, T-Bay said:

Not sure how this has become Mould V Clapton

 Well, thankfully, it hasn't deteriorated into a proxy competition between two fine musicians and performers. It's just me derailing a thread again to propose that a world with Bob Mould and Eric Clapton in it is a better world than one without them.

As for the influence thing, in his time Clapton spawned a million guitar faces and several hundred thousand blues bands. To this day, if a guitarist suggests playing a blues I assume he probably means the Clapton version rather than the original by Blind Lemon Chitling. So, yes influential.

As for Bob, we know that a generation of 90's bands ripped off Husker Du and Sugar. It may have been Grohl or Cobain or Black Francis (?) who said something like 'We owe it all to Bob Mould'.

Each, in their time, influential but to different degrees and in different ways. The marvellous thing is I can flip a switch and listen to either of them at their best and at no cost. What a time to be alive 

[peteb]

18 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

 Well, thankfully, it hasn't deteriorated into a proxy competition between two fine musicians and performers. It's just me derailing a thread again to propose that a world with Bob Mould and Eric Clapton in it is a better world than one without them.

As for the influence thing, in his time Clapton spawned a million guitar faces and several hundred thousand blues bands. To this day, if a guitarist suggests playing a blues I assume he probably means the Clapton version rather than the original by Blind Lemon Chitling. So, yes influential.

As for Bob, we know that a generation of 90's bands ripped off Husker Du and Sugar. It may have been Grohl or Cobain or Black Francis (?) who said something like 'We owe it all to Bob Mould'.

Each, in their time, influential but to different degrees and in different ways. The marvellous thing is I can flip a switch and listen to either of them at their best and at no cost. What a time to be alive 

Good point well made, similar to one I was attempting to compose when you hit the send button. The only thing that I would add is that every time you listen to a new guitar player (who may never have even heard of EC), he’s copped his licks off a guy who copied them off a guy who got them off Clapton.

Let us be clear, this is largely down to the time that young Eric originally came to prominence, in much the same as a certain rather influential beat combo of that period from Liverpool!

None of this is to denigrate Mr Mould (who I was vaguely aware of but had never listened to before this thread), who has obviously influenced several bands that I have listened to.

[skankdelvar]

For the purposes of clarification I can confirm that Mr Bob Mould is not related to the late Mr Ted Moult.

Thank you. Now go about your business, people of Britain.

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by skankdelvar

[steantval]

4 hours ago, Dankology said:

I'm always slightly amazed by the "who??" type comments in threads like this.

This, I believe, is a musicians' forum. I can't imagine another line of work where affecting never to have heard of someone with an international reputation would be seen as a boast.

That said, I do think Phoebe Bridgers is an objectionable gobsh!te albeit spot on regarding EC in this instance.

Not a boast, never heard of him and that also includes loads of other characters within the business of making music.

[Ricky 4000]

 

Quote

She added: “The lyric used to be, ‘we hate Eric Clapton‘. It’s actually kind of worse now. Because it’s the dead baby song, which is a heartbreaking song.

“If I were to pick an Eric Clapton song, it’s up there with the ones that I actually like. So, it’s kind of a lie on the record, but it sounds more poetic.”

I think that's kind of, like, all we need to know...

[Passinwind]

16 hours ago, ahpook said:

I'm going to send a link to this thread to Phoebe Bridgers.

 

 

Please tell her that we’re looking forward to her superior dead baby song.😎

[Woodinblack]

4 hours ago, Passinwind said:

Please tell her that we’re looking forward to her superior dead baby song.😎

Clearly she is saying she likes the dead baby song, and admits she is lying if she says that she doesn't like eric clapton because of that.

Either way it seems quite surprising that she had heard of Eric Clapton.

[Black Coffee]

I don’t know enough about Clapton to have an opinion on this mediocre rating for him.

 

I have heard and read much however about his bland personality and also his reputed influence on millions of musicians. 
 

Does him being labelled by this person who has spoken out as a bland horrible/insensitive/racist or whatever sort of person make him a poor musician.  No. 
 

What has this individual to gain by this opinion?

[Rich]

11 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

For the purposes of clarification I can confirm that Mr Bob Mould is not related to the late Mr Ted Moult.

Thank you. Now go about your business, people of Britain.

 

That commercial was filmed at the Tan Hill Inn, the highest (as in, most altitudious) boozer in England. They had that very feather framed on the wall, until somebody stole said feather. They are incredibly cross about it -- one might say, spitting feathers -- and are, I believe, offering a reward for its return.

Edward Walker Moult, known for his jolly demeanour,
feathery adverts, and genuinely tragic demise

[MacDaddy]

On 18/08/2020 at 07:34, Baxlin said:

I was interested to read comments by Phoebe Bridgers about Clapton, (maybe less said the better about her accusations of his racism) 

 

 

why?